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Old 04-24-2010, 10:46 AM   #1
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Confused "we can help?" Im starting to think that we can't...

I don’t have a lot of time to post this so I’m just going to try to quickly get my point across and will be back later to tie up the loose ends.

I started a thread about things we can do to help educate and put an end to BYB and puppymills. I started writing a letter to YCA in regards to a new breeder listing page. I’m stuck. Why? Well it goes back to when I was looking to buy my dog and the hell I went though. I now have a friend who is also looking, when she asked me on advise I could only tell her. Rescue! Do not deal with the breeders. Its not worth it, just rescue.
BUT WAIT!? Wasn’t I just about to set up a breeder referral?
Back to my friend, I told her about this site and told her I would keep my eye out for a puppy. The thing is, she wants to spend close to $1000. She knows what she can and can’t afford (when I was looking I also had a price range in my head and promised myself I wouldn’t fall in love with a puppy over my price range because I also factored potential vet visits, x-pen, food, etc. in my puppy budget) So I went to look in the classifieds here and there was one of the breeders I called during breeder hell…. Stalked the profile a bit, thread hopped…. I end up on a thread of “what not to ask your breeder” that sounds interesting enough. After reading a few posts I became sick. “I won’t sell to a person who asks about price first”.
So now I go to the “How much does a yorkie puppy cost?” thread well now! That doesn’t seem right.
Anyway, I guess my question is this; When looking for a pet, if we are “supposed” to stay away from breeders who breed for profit (puppymills, BYB), as well as breeders who breed for show, yet are supposed to buy from breeders (hobby breeders?) and NOT backyard breeders……..(whew)………. what is the difference between them all in YOUR mind (I have my own ideas)?
Now forget the BAD places, when looking for a healthy, pet, puppy, where do you go?
Why are the prices for pets so similar to dogs for show?
What happens to a puppy that is not show quality and then what is the difference in price?

It seems price, availability and advertizing are the only reasons puppymills are still in existence. Im not trying to generate a war, Just need some advice and serious answers to what I think is perpetuating the existence of puppymills in general.
If I’m going to try to make a difference I guess I’m going to start my journey with the breeders and work my way down to the consumer….
Again, I had to type this in like 2 minutes so I hope its readable, eeeep :P
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:06 AM   #2
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What happens to a puppy that is not show quality and then what is the difference in price?

I can tell you about Moses, "Heavenly's Holy Moses". He came from Heavenly Terriers in Indiana and she breeds for show. He was entered in a show in Indianapolis when he was a puppy, I don't know how old, and she said he won best puppy! But, she also said he just didn't have the show personality so she had him neutered and offered him for sale. I paid $500 for him, which I thought was reasonable considering he was chipped, neutered, registered (big deal, since he is neutered) and had all his shots. He was 10 months when I got him. So, I would think there are other show breeders out there that will sell at a reasonable price when the dogs are strictly going to be pets. He was a good purchase, he 's a sweetie.
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:07 AM   #3
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Hi, I know how you feel, and I wrote this thread http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...kie-puppy.html trying to explain the different prices that breeders charge, and why it's important to only support quality breeders. I see you say you read it but it doesn't seem right, which part? Breeders who show also have pet dogs available, and these are very affordable. I think it's very important to get to know the breeder first and why they are breeding before you dwell on price. While price is a concern to everyone buying a Yorkie, it shouldn't be your first concern, it should be the health of the dog, because an unhealthy dog can really break the bank. Also keep in mind, reputable breeders may have a set price, but are very flexible when it comes to finding the best home for a dog. A reputable breeder here says, "You buy your breeder first, then you buy your puppy."
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:28 AM   #4
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i to say i understand what you are going threw i contacted several breeders hear on yorkietalk when i was looking for a friend for Gatsby and i told them i might not be interested in the litter they had now or maybe even the next litter but i asked them to tell me what they looked for in a home and maybe something there site never said (like we want you to have 2 square feet of yard per pound of dog) so i could pick a breeder to buy my next puppy and no one would not one person ever got back to me
how are you supposed to "buy the breeder first" when they wont talk to you unless you are buying right now
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Old 04-24-2010, 11:54 AM   #5
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i to say i understand what you are going threw i contacted several breeders hear on yorkietalk when i was looking for a friend for Gatsby and i told them i might not be interested in the litter they had now or maybe even the next litter but i asked them to tell me what they looked for in a home and maybe something there site never said (like we want you to have 2 square feet of yard per pound of dog) so i could pick a breeder to buy my next puppy and no one would not one person ever got back to me
how are you supposed to "buy the breeder first" when they wont talk to you unless you are buying right now
I don't know exactly when you posted your post, but posts can get lost in the shuffle. And I understand your frustration. There is a post on here that I posted, on what a breeder looks for when evaluating homes. The reputable breeder's most important criteria is the welfare of the puppy. You are buying relationship, the breeder will be yours for the rest of that puppy's life and be available to you 7x24. The deal doesn't end when you walk out the door with your puppy.

As far as not talking to you, I don't understand that at all. Since I know a lot of breeders, as well as myself, that will spend countless hours on the phone with people, just educating and developing an initial relationship. It doesn't matter whether we have pups available at that point or not. And most of the time we don't, since most of us have a waiting list.
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:43 PM   #6
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Hi, I know how you feel, and I wrote this thread http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...kie-puppy.html trying to explain the different prices that breeders charge, and why it's important to only support quality breeders. I see you say you read it but it doesn't seem right, which part? Breeders who show also have pet dogs available, and these are very affordable. I think it's very important to get to know the breeder first and why they are breeding before you dwell on price. While price is a concern to everyone buying a Yorkie, it shouldn't be your first concern, it should be the health of the dog, because an unhealthy dog can really break the bank. Also keep in mind, reputable breeders may have a set price, but are very flexible when it comes to finding the best home for a dog. A reputable breeder here says, "You buy your breeder first, then you buy your puppy."
While anyone should not dwell on a price there is a difference between buying a healthy puppy that isn't show quality for a pet price and buying the same and getting ripped off.
I spoke with one woman who wanted $3500 for a puppy. I just cant justify paying that much for a dog.
If that is the price range the breeder is asking I want to know right off the bat so I can move on. Another was in my price range but wanted my first born child in return. Another wanted to know if i had accepted jesus christ as my personal savior...
I do understand that most breeders care where their puppies are going.

I feel like a beggar. I feel like a little kid asking if I may have a cookie before dinner. I feel like an adult interviewing for a job with an angsty teenage manager who hates their parents.

when some people sell their dogs for the price of cars it is important to know what you are getting yourself into.

In my mind, breeders hold a lot of power, including the power to shut down puppy mills. Perhaps I'm wrong and 1800 to 3500 is reasonable for a pet yorkie...
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Old 04-24-2010, 01:52 PM   #7
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While anyone should not dwell on a price there is a difference between buying a healthy puppy that isn't show quality for a pet price and buying the same and getting ripped off.
I spoke with one woman who wanted $3500 for a puppy. I just cant justify paying that much for a dog.
If that is the price range the breeder is asking I want to know right off the bat so I can move on. Another was in my price range but wanted my first born child in return. Another wanted to know if i had accepted jesus christ as my personal savior...
I do understand that most breeders care where their puppies are going.

I feel like a beggar. I feel like a little kid asking if I may have a cookie before dinner. I feel like an adult interviewing for a job with an angsty teenage manager who hates their parents.

when some people sell their dogs for the price of cars it is important to know what you are getting yourself into.

In my mind, breeders hold a lot of power, including the power to shut down puppy mills. Perhaps I'm wrong and 1800 to 3500 is reasonable for a pet yorkie...
My gut feeling is that you just haven't come across that reputable breeder. A reputable breeder never makes a potential puppy buyer feel as you described. Reputable breeder's first priority is that puppy, 2nd to educate you. They really don't care if they sell you a puppy or not, they just want you to make the right choice. I don't care if a pup is $500.00 or $5,000, it's a big decision and a long term commitment.
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Old 04-24-2010, 02:16 PM   #8
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My gut feeling is that you just haven't come across that reputable breeder. A reputable breeder never makes a potential puppy buyer feel as you described. Reputable breeder's first priority is that puppy, 2nd to educate you. They really don't care if they sell you a puppy or not, they just want you to make the right choice. I don't care if a pup is $500.00 or $5,000, it's a big decision and a long term commitment.
Just wanted to say that everything you have posted in this thread makes absolute and perfect sense. I feel really blessed that some how I ended up with 3 healthy dogs and a breeder that although probably not perfect in some respects was a good breeder for me. I hot flash everytime I read one of these threads because I realize I was ignorant and lucky. There seems to be more scams, puppymills, brokers and BYBs than there are caring and knowledgeable breeders like you. All I can do is try and educate myself now in hopes that someday if I ever know of anyone who is looking for a yorkie puppy I will definitively know what to tell them to be looking for! Just want to say a HUGE thank you to mardelin and breeders like her who not only continue swim upstream to be the best breeders they can be in an industry which is full of
crooked people only looking to make a buck but also a huge thank u for your willingness to educate all of us in the process. Without your knowledge a lot of us would continue to go on blindly being ignorant and maybe not end up so lucky the next time around. I am truly grateful to have professionals like you to look up to and learn from! Keep doing what you're doing...we need to know and have the chance to learn so maybe we can pass on your wisdom to someone else someday! :-)
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Old 04-24-2010, 03:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Mardelin View Post
I don't know exactly when you posted your post, but posts can get lost in the shuffle. And I understand your frustration. There is a post on here that I posted, on what a breeder looks for when evaluating homes. The reputable breeder's most important criteria is the welfare of the puppy. You are buying relationship, the breeder will be yours for the rest of that puppy's life and be available to you 7x24. The deal doesn't end when you walk out the door with your puppy.

As far as not talking to you, I don't understand that at all. Since I know a lot of breeders, as well as myself, that will spend countless hours on the phone with people, just educating and developing an initial relationship. It doesn't matter whether we have pups available at that point or not. And most of the time we don't, since most of us have a waiting list.
i did not post. i contacted them with the email on there sites i got the name of the site off the signature i did not know wear to look and figured it was a place to start
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Old 04-24-2010, 03:52 PM   #10
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i did not post. i contacted them with the email on there sites i got the name of the site off the signature i did not know wear to look and figured it was a place to start
Ah! That clears it up a bit. Based on my way of thinking and how I do business. If, I receive an e-mail asking me all kinds of questions, I usually answer back, requesting that they contact me by phone. Couple of reasons as to why I do this. I find e-mail such an impersonal way of communicating. I want to hear their voice, and I never give out information without a person answering a few key questions. I also, feel that if someone puts in the effort of calling me, they're pretty serious. If they don't call me then, they've proven my point.
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Old 04-24-2010, 03:54 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Lula-Mae Famous View Post
While anyone should not dwell on a price there is a difference between buying a healthy puppy that isn't show quality for a pet price and buying the same and getting ripped off.
[COLOR="red"]I spoke with one woman who wanted $3500 for a puppy.[/COLOR] I just cant justify paying that much for a dog.
If that is the price range the breeder is asking I want to know right off the bat so I can move on.[COLOR="Red"] Another was in my price range but wanted my first born child in return. Another wanted to know if i had accepted jesus christ as my personal savior...[/COLOR]I do understand that most breeders care where their puppies are going.

I feel like a beggar. I feel like a little kid asking if I may have a cookie before dinner. I feel like an adult interviewing for a job with an angsty teenage manager who hates their parents.

when some people sell their dogs for the price of cars it is important to know what you are getting yourself into.

In my mind, breeders hold a lot of power, including the power to shut down puppy mills. Perhaps I'm wrong and 1800 to 3500 is reasonable for a pet yorkie...


___________

What did the breeders you spoke to really ask that upset you so much? In the New England region a top quality PET puppy from a show breeder is $1800to $2200 with limited AKC registration. These are the puppies a breeder releases after selecting what he/she will keep for showing. Only one so-called breeder in this area would ask $3500 for a puppy and there is an entire thread dedicated to her in the Regional forums.
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