AKC vs CKC: What is the difference - YorkieTalk.com Forums

veggienut · 12-19-2009, 09:22 PM

I called someone in the local paper that was advertising for Yorkies this weekend. Her Yorkies are CKC, so I asked what the difference between being AKC and CKC. She told me that the paperwork that you need for AKC is like $25 and for CKC it is $10. I know there is more to it than that. I do know that AKC dogs compete, since I have a friend whom shows her Yorkie. What does CKC stand for~? Is there others besides AKC and CKC. Are AKC better quality than CKC~? Just curious. Thanks

107barney · 12-19-2009, 10:24 PM

CKC is the Continental Kennel Club. It has been criticized in the past as being a registry for Puppy Mills.

J_is_my_initial · 12-20-2009, 12:12 AM

There is the Continental Kennel Club, The American Kennel Club and the American Canine Association. From what I understand the quality of the pups are determined by the breeders not by what papers they have. My yorkie is AKC, my chi could be registered by CKC and my boston terrier by ACA. We have had the most health problems with Gypsy the yorkie. Just my thoughts.

veggienut · 12-20-2009, 09:05 AM

Wow, interesting. Is there other KC registers too besides these~? I know the common is AKC and rarely have I ever heard of CKC. I guess that is why the folks whom sell CKC can charge such a low price compared to the AKC too, right~?

chachi · 12-20-2009, 09:16 AM

The AKC is the most prestigious registry. The other registries will register mixes so theres no real way for you to know your dog is pure bred. Also people suspended from the AKC will register their pups with the alternative registries

LeahDee · 12-20-2009, 09:34 AM

I think too much stock is put into registries. Will you love your dog any less if it is not AKC? My little Maddie is CKC and is very healthy, playful and beautiful! No registry can guarantee that your puppy is going to look or act like the "standard."

GurleyGirl · 12-20-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeahDee

I think too much stock is put into registries. Will you love your dog any less if it is not AKC? My little Maddie is CKC and is very healthy, playful and beautiful! No registry can guarantee that your puppy is going to look or act like the "standard."

Mardelin · 12-20-2009, 10:21 AM

Everyone is very right that the quality of dog is not determined on the registery. All should be determined by your breeder.......

AKC is the purebred registery and the most prestigous.....

CKC & ACA was established and used by those that are unwilling to undergo the scrutiny of AKC. Any dog can be registered in CKC & ACA. Used mostely by puppy mills and BYBers

Purchasing an AKC registered dog comes with the ability of lodging complaints should there be any question of parentage of the pup... Since you are allowed to register mixed breeds in the other two, that option is mute.

BamaFan121s · 12-20-2009, 10:50 AM

They are simply different registries with different guidelines. The registration alone should not be the only factor considered when selecting a dog. Yes, CKC has more than it's fair share of dishonest, shady breeders...but AKC does too. Likewise, just because a breeder uses CKC, that does not mean they are dishonest, puppy millers. There are good AND bad breeders in EVERY registry. Thus why it is important to know your stuff and really evaluate the dogs and breeding practices of the individual instead of just worrying about the registry alone.

AKC is by far the most stringent by comparison, but that does not guarantee you are getting a "better" dog. It's really just a matter of personal preference.

veggienut · 12-20-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Everyone is very right that the quality of dog is not determined on the registery. All should be determined by your breeder.......

AKC is the purebred registery and the most prestigous.....

CKC & ACA was established and used by those that are unwilling to undergo the scrutiny of AKC. Any dog can be registered in CKC & ACA. Used mostely by puppy mills and BYBers

Purchasing an AKC registered dog comes with the ability of lodging complaints should there be any question of parentage of the pup... Since you are allowed to register mixed breeds in the other two, that option is mute.

What is BYBers~?

J_is_my_initial · 12-20-2009, 12:04 PM

back yard breeders.

J_is_my_initial · 12-20-2009, 12:06 PM

sorry link did not work
No Puppy Mills, VA

has a great def under back yard breeders.

Mardelin · 12-20-2009, 12:12 PM

"Sadly, not all people professing to be reputable and responsible breeders are. A good breeder will all but interrogate you. You should also have the chance to question the breeder. If you are not sure or uneasy with an answer, do not hesitate to ask for an explanation. If at any time you get an uneasy feeling or just are not satisfied, look elsewhere. A few things to ask about are:

1. What is the asking price of the puppies? Some breeders will ask the same for pet quality and show potential puppies. Compare prices with other breeders of the same breed and if the price is considerably higher or lower do not hesitate to ask why. Do not hesitate to ask why if there is a big difference in pet and show pups. Unless there is a visible disqualification or the puppy visibly will not be showing potential, the younger the pup the harder it is to determine show quality. A person who really knows the breed can have a good idea what pups have show POTENTIAL and what may not. Much happens while the puppy grows and that eight week show prospect may not be show potential at 9 months! And avoid ANY breeder who charges different for males or females or who charges extra if you want a pedigree or registration. It is not that expensive to register a litter so the potential owners can individually register puppies. (Many kennel clubs like the AKC require all litters to be registered by the breeder. Then papers are sent out that are given to buyers of puppies so the owner can register them in their name).

2. What health tests have been done on BOTH parents of the litter? Any dog should have hips (OFA or PennHip), eyes (CERF) and ideally thyroid prior to breeding. Then is up to you as potential buyer to know what other tests the breed you are looking at should have. Even crossbred puppies are prone to hereditary health issues and parents should be tested prior to breeding for anything common within the two breeds crossed. Though a reputable breeder will NOT cross as the predicability in outcome is less and there are too many negligent litters of crossbred pups from unaltered pets. The breeder should be able to show documentation of all tests and do not hesitate to verify the results. Do not blindly accept their word – some dishonest breeders will lie and say all tests have been done. And if the breeder says there is nothing in the line so testing is not important, avoid this person as well. Some health problems are polygenetic (more than one set of genes involved – not a simple dominant/recessive). Some health problems take years to show fully or may be there but not showing outwardly. For example, some dysplastic dogs never show signs of having it and it is only diagnosed upon testing.

3. What temperament testing and socialization has been done? Granted, young puppies should not leave the property due to a growing immune system; however, the breeder should expose the puppies to as many things as possible like vacuum cleaners, children, house sounds, etc. The older the puppy, the more experiences it should have. Has the breeder temperament tested and what method was used? A good breeder will help match the right personality to you. If you are a quiet family and the breeder pushes a dominant pup on you, leave. On the other hand, if you like the look of one puppy and the breeder, after interviewing you, decides it is not the right match, respect that.

4. What goals does the breeder have with the breeding program and how does the breeder go about to achieve this? If the breeder breeds just to produce more dogs, for pets only or anything that does not go towards the bettering of the breeder's lines and the breed as a whole, go elsewhere. And if the breeder breeds for working ability first, you could end up with a handful! Look for one who breeds for companionship as well as type and working ability – unless you are looking exclusively for a working dog.

5. What does the breeder feel are the strengths and weaknesses in the breed and the breeder's program? The breeder should be open with you about the program and where they hope to go with it. Avoid the breeder who insists there are no better dogs around then his.

6. Can you see the pedigrees of both sire and dam? Can you see at least the dam on premises? The sire may not be on site but the dam should be. If not, you could be dealing with a broker (one who sells dogs not bred by that person).

7. What type of contract does the breeder have for pet or show puppies (it should include a spay/neuter agreement and health guarantee)? Do not get pressured into becoming contracted to show or breed your dog – even if you do plan to show and possibly get into breeding someday. Everything should be spelled out in the contract. And be wary of a breeder sells you a young puppy that is "definitely show quality." So much happens during growth and development – the younger the puppy; the harder it is to tell show quality. A breeder who really knows the breed can tell if a young pup has POTENTIAL but should not be guaranteeing the dog will be a show dog. Another red flag is the breeder who has no written contract at all. All puppies whether pet or show potential should be sold with a written contract.

8. What does the breeder feed the puppies? You want to try and keep the puppies on the same brand of food. If the breeder uses something you do not, gradually wean the puppy to your preferred brand.

9. What inoculations have been given? Eight-week-old puppies should have had their first set of inoculations and you should be given documentation of this. If not, go elsewhere. If the puppies have no boosters prior to leaving the dam, look elsewhere.

10. Can you get references of previous puppy buyers? If the breeder will not give them, go elsewhere.

11. Can you have your own vet examine the puppy before you fully commit? You may be asked to put down a deposit but you should have the option of having your vet examine the puppy with in a couple days after purchase (always a good idea to have this done and the breeder may require it).

12. Are you active in any breed clubs (all breed or ideally breed specialty)? Many clubs have a breeder code of ethics that they want their members to adhere to. Just being AKC registered is not a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. It just means the puppy was from registered parents and the breeder has taken the steps to begin the registration process for the puppies. Even pet stores can sell AKC registered pups if the miller registers the dogs. The AKC cannot police everyone professing to be a breeder so again, being and educated consumer is very important.

Use your gut instinct and do not get suckered by cute faces or sob stories. Remember, this pup will be yours for the next ten years or much longer depending on breed. You should get the best possible puppy possible from the most responsible source you can find should you go the breeder route.

Many of these questions can be adapted to ask at a rescue as well. Do not hesitate to ask what is know about the background of the puppies (or adult dog), what medical care they have had and has the staff noticed anything about their temperaments that could be of concern? Ask about the adoption agreement and have it gone through carefully with you."

A good breeder takes a LIFETIME interest in ALL dogs produced. They want to know how your dog does in it's new home, love getting calls and cards from you and are always there to advise you of a problem comes up. If a medical condition crops up, they want to know so if it is potentially hereditary, they can alter the program and try to stop the problem in future generations. A good breeder is a mentor and best friend to all buyers and dogs they produced. And a good breeder will sell with a spay/neuter contract or alter the puppy or dog before placement!

ladyjane · 12-20-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

"Sadly, not all people professing to be reputable and responsible breeders are. A good breeder will all but interrogate you. You should also have the chance to question the breeder. If you are not sure or uneasy with an answer, do not hesitate to ask for an explanation. If at any time you get an uneasy feeling or just are not satisfied, look elsewhere. A few things to ask about are:

1. What is the asking price of the puppies? Some breeders will ask the same for pet quality and show potential puppies. Compare prices with other breeders of the same breed and if the price is considerably higher or lower do not hesitate to ask why. Do not hesitate to ask why if there is a big difference in pet and show pups. Unless there is a visible disqualification or the puppy visibly will not be showing potential, the younger the pup the harder it is to determine show quality. A person who really knows the breed can have a good idea what pups have show POTENTIAL and what may not. Much happens while the puppy grows and that eight week show prospect may not be show potential at 9 months! And avoid ANY breeder who charges different for males or females or who charges extra if you want a pedigree or registration. It is not that expensive to register a litter so the potential owners can individually register puppies. (Many kennel clubs like the AKC require all litters to be registered by the breeder. Then papers are sent out that are given to buyers of puppies so the owner can register them in their name).

2. What health tests have been done on BOTH parents of the litter? Any dog should have hips (OFA or PennHip), eyes (CERF) and ideally thyroid prior to breeding. Then is up to you as potential buyer to know what other tests the breed you are looking at should have. Even crossbred puppies are prone to hereditary health issues and parents should be tested prior to breeding for anything common within the two breeds crossed. Though a reputable breeder will NOT cross as the predicability in outcome is less and there are too many negligent litters of crossbred pups from unaltered pets. The breeder should be able to show documentation of all tests and do not hesitate to verify the results. Do not blindly accept their word – some dishonest breeders will lie and say all tests have been done. And if the breeder says there is nothing in the line so testing is not important, avoid this person as well. Some health problems are polygenetic (more than one set of genes involved – not a simple dominant/recessive). Some health problems take years to show fully or may be there but not showing outwardly. For example, some dysplastic dogs never show signs of having it and it is only diagnosed upon testing.

3. What temperament testing and socialization has been done? Granted, young puppies should not leave the property due to a growing immune system; however, the breeder should expose the puppies to as many things as possible like vacuum cleaners, children, house sounds, etc. The older the puppy, the more experiences it should have. Has the breeder temperament tested and what method was used? A good breeder will help match the right personality to you. If you are a quiet family and the breeder pushes a dominant pup on you, leave. On the other hand, if you like the look of one puppy and the breeder, after interviewing you, decides it is not the right match, respect that.

4. What goals does the breeder have with the breeding program and how does the breeder go about to achieve this? If the breeder breeds just to produce more dogs, for pets only or anything that does not go towards the bettering of the breeder's lines and the breed as a whole, go elsewhere. And if the breeder breeds for working ability first, you could end up with a handful! Look for one who breeds for companionship as well as type and working ability – unless you are looking exclusively for a working dog.

5. What does the breeder feel are the strengths and weaknesses in the breed and the breeder's program? The breeder should be open with you about the program and where they hope to go with it. Avoid the breeder who insists there are no better dogs around then his.

6. Can you see the pedigrees of both sire and dam? Can you see at least the dam on premises? The sire may not be on site but the dam should be. If not, you could be dealing with a broker (one who sells dogs not bred by that person).

7. What type of contract does the breeder have for pet or show puppies (it should include a spay/neuter agreement and health guarantee)? Do not get pressured into becoming contracted to show or breed your dog – even if you do plan to show and possibly get into breeding someday. Everything should be spelled out in the contract. And be wary of a breeder sells you a young puppy that is "definitely show quality." So much happens during growth and development – the younger the puppy; the harder it is to tell show quality. A breeder who really knows the breed can tell if a young pup has POTENTIAL but should not be guaranteeing the dog will be a show dog. Another red flag is the breeder who has no written contract at all. All puppies whether pet or show potential should be sold with a written contract.

8. What does the breeder feed the puppies? You want to try and keep the puppies on the same brand of food. If the breeder uses something you do not, gradually wean the puppy to your preferred brand.

9. What inoculations have been given? Eight-week-old puppies should have had their first set of inoculations and you should be given documentation of this. If not, go elsewhere. If the puppies have no boosters prior to leaving the dam, look elsewhere.

10. Can you get references of previous puppy buyers? If the breeder will not give them, go elsewhere.

11. Can you have your own vet examine the puppy before you fully commit? You may be asked to put down a deposit but you should have the option of having your vet examine the puppy with in a couple days after purchase (always a good idea to have this done and the breeder may require it).

12. Are you active in any breed clubs (all breed or ideally breed specialty)? Many clubs have a breeder code of ethics that they want their members to adhere to. Just being AKC registered is not a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. It just means the puppy was from registered parents and the breeder has taken the steps to begin the registration process for the puppies. Even pet stores can sell AKC registered pups if the miller registers the dogs. The AKC cannot police everyone professing to be a breeder so again, being and educated consumer is very important.

Use your gut instinct and do not get suckered by cute faces or sob stories. Remember, this pup will be yours for the next ten years or much longer depending on breed. You should get the best possible puppy possible from the most responsible source you can find should you go the breeder route.

Many of these questions can be adapted to ask at a rescue as well. Do not hesitate to ask what is know about the background of the puppies (or adult dog), what medical care they have had and has the staff noticed anything about their temperaments that could be of concern? Ask about the adoption agreement and have it gone through carefully with you."

A good breeder takes a LIFETIME interest in ALL dogs produced. They want to know how your dog does in it's new home, love getting calls and cards from you and are always there to advise you of a problem comes up. If a medical condition crops up, they want to know so if it is potentially hereditary, they can alter the program and try to stop the problem in future generations. A good breeder is a mentor and best friend to all buyers and dogs they produced. And a good breeder will sell with a spay/neuter contract or alter the puppy or dog before placement!

If this is not a sticky somewhere, it should be! Great information!

Dame · 12-20-2009, 02:32 PM

Registry doesn't really mean much of anything if you aren't interested in showing... however I have found that in many instances unethical breeders often use breed registries as a stepping stone for making themselves sound more legitimate. Unfortunately I think the CKC has suffered because of this with their guidelines.

To register a dog with no current registries:
CKC: requires two signatures that certify the dog fits the breed standard along with photos for any dog that's not already registered.

AKC: requires that the dog already be listed in an acceptable registry in the US (like the National Greyhound Association or North American Sheep Dog Society for example) and then you have to along the pedigree from that registry along with photographs.

None of this means you get a better dog... with the AKC you're just getting a dog with papers from a club that cares a lot more about qualifications so to speak. Ideally I would love to see some registry come about that focuses on health and genetic testing - but there will always be ways for people to get around things if they are really set on it.

Neither really assure you anything. The CKC has been tainted by the fact that it is very easy for your average BYB to register their dogs there, and the CKC registry makes them sound that much more legit. There are most definetely some decent CKC breeders out there. IMO I think how the breeder advertises their registry listing matters so much more. Someone who focuses so much more on just the registry versus the health and line of the dog is much more likely to be someone riding on a registry without focusing on the traits that matter.

Registries are really... just pieces of paper. Its the health of the dog and the conditions that mean so much more... registries don't insure those things, but from a personal perspective - I've found that individuals who focus on where their line came from with certainly (so they have the ability to follow the various genetic issues) tend to have happier and healthier dogs.

12-19-2009, 09:22 PM	#1
veggienut YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 805	AKC vs CKC: What is the difference I called someone in the local paper that was advertising for Yorkies this weekend. Her Yorkies are CKC, so I asked what the difference between being AKC and CKC. She told me that the paperwork that you need for AKC is like $25 and for CKC it is $10. I know there is more to it than that. I do know that AKC dogs compete, since I have a friend whom shows her Yorkie. What does CKC stand for~? Is there others besides AKC and CKC. Are AKC better quality than CKC~? Just curious. Thanks

12-19-2009, 10:24 PM	#2
107barney T. Bumpkins & Co. Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New England Posts: 9,816	CKC is the Continental Kennel Club. It has been criticized in the past as being a registry for Puppy Mills. __________________ T. Bumpkins & Co. Washable Doggie Pee Pads (Save 10% Enter YTSAVE10 at checkout) Cathy, Teddy, Winston and Baby Clyde...RIP angels Barney and Daisy

12-20-2009, 12:12 AM	#3
J_is_my_initial YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Knoxville,Tennessee Posts: 3,073	There is the Continental Kennel Club, The American Kennel Club and the American Canine Association. From what I understand the quality of the pups are determined by the breeders not by what papers they have. My yorkie is AKC, my chi could be registered by CKC and my boston terrier by ACA. We have had the most health problems with Gypsy the yorkie. Just my thoughts. __________________ PAWPRINTS AND DOG HAIR ENHANCE MY PERSONAL STYLE.

12-20-2009, 09:16 AM	#5
chachi I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 37,147	The AKC is the most prestigious registry. The other registries will register mixes so theres no real way for you to know your dog is pure bred. Also people suspended from the AKC will register their pups with the alternative registries __________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431 Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427

12-20-2009, 10:21 AM	#8
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	Everyone is very right that the quality of dog is not determined on the registery. All should be determined by your breeder....... AKC is the purebred registery and the most prestigous..... CKC & ACA was established and used by those that are unwilling to undergo the scrutiny of AKC. Any dog can be registered in CKC & ACA. Used mostely by puppy mills and BYBers Purchasing an AKC registered dog comes with the ability of lodging complaints should there be any question of parentage of the pup... Since you are allowed to register mixed breeds in the other two, that option is mute. __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers* Last edited by Mardelin; 12-20-2009 at 10:23 AM.

12-20-2009, 09:05 AM	#4
veggienut YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 805	Wow, interesting. Is there other KC registers too besides these~? I know the common is AKC and rarely have I ever heard of CKC. I guess that is why the folks whom sell CKC can charge such a low price compared to the AKC too, right~?

12-20-2009, 09:34 AM	#6
LeahDee Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: TN Posts: 33	I think too much stock is put into registries. Will you love your dog any less if it is not AKC? My little Maddie is CKC and is very healthy, playful and beautiful! No registry can guarantee that your puppy is going to look or act like the "standard."

12-20-2009, 10:50 AM	#9
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	They are simply different registries with different guidelines. The registration alone should not be the only factor considered when selecting a dog. Yes, CKC has more than it's fair share of dishonest, shady breeders...but AKC does too. Likewise, just because a breeder uses CKC, that does not mean they are dishonest, puppy millers. There are good AND bad breeders in EVERY registry. Thus why it is important to know your stuff and really evaluate the dogs and breeding practices of the individual instead of just worrying about the registry alone. AKC is by far the most stringent by comparison, but that does not guarantee you are getting a "better" dog. It's really just a matter of personal preference. Last edited by BamaFan121s; 12-20-2009 at 10:53 AM.

12-20-2009, 12:04 PM	#11
J_is_my_initial YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Knoxville,Tennessee Posts: 3,073	back yard breeders. __________________ PAWPRINTS AND DOG HAIR ENHANCE MY PERSONAL STYLE. Last edited by J_is_my_initial; 12-20-2009 at 12:07 PM.

12-20-2009, 12:06 PM	#12
J_is_my_initial YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Knoxville,Tennessee Posts: 3,073	sorry link did not work No Puppy Mills, VA has a great def under back yard breeders. __________________ PAWPRINTS AND DOG HAIR ENHANCE MY PERSONAL STYLE. Last edited by J_is_my_initial; 12-20-2009 at 12:07 PM.

12-20-2009, 12:12 PM	#13
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	"Sadly, not all people professing to be reputable and responsible breeders are. A good breeder will all but interrogate you. You should also have the chance to question the breeder. If you are not sure or uneasy with an answer, do not hesitate to ask for an explanation. If at any time you get an uneasy feeling or just are not satisfied, look elsewhere. A few things to ask about are: 1. What is the asking price of the puppies? Some breeders will ask the same for pet quality and show potential puppies. Compare prices with other breeders of the same breed and if the price is considerably higher or lower do not hesitate to ask why. Do not hesitate to ask why if there is a big difference in pet and show pups. Unless there is a visible disqualification or the puppy visibly will not be showing potential, the younger the pup the harder it is to determine show quality. A person who really knows the breed can have a good idea what pups have show POTENTIAL and what may not. Much happens while the puppy grows and that eight week show prospect may not be show potential at 9 months! And avoid ANY breeder who charges different for males or females or who charges extra if you want a pedigree or registration. It is not that expensive to register a litter so the potential owners can individually register puppies. (Many kennel clubs like the AKC require all litters to be registered by the breeder. Then papers are sent out that are given to buyers of puppies so the owner can register them in their name). 2. What health tests have been done on BOTH parents of the litter? Any dog should have hips (OFA or PennHip), eyes (CERF) and ideally thyroid prior to breeding. Then is up to you as potential buyer to know what other tests the breed you are looking at should have. Even crossbred puppies are prone to hereditary health issues and parents should be tested prior to breeding for anything common within the two breeds crossed. Though a reputable breeder will NOT cross as the predicability in outcome is less and there are too many negligent litters of crossbred pups from unaltered pets. The breeder should be able to show documentation of all tests and do not hesitate to verify the results. Do not blindly accept their word – some dishonest breeders will lie and say all tests have been done. And if the breeder says there is nothing in the line so testing is not important, avoid this person as well. Some health problems are polygenetic (more than one set of genes involved – not a simple dominant/recessive). Some health problems take years to show fully or may be there but not showing outwardly. For example, some dysplastic dogs never show signs of having it and it is only diagnosed upon testing. 3. What temperament testing and socialization has been done? Granted, young puppies should not leave the property due to a growing immune system; however, the breeder should expose the puppies to as many things as possible like vacuum cleaners, children, house sounds, etc. The older the puppy, the more experiences it should have. Has the breeder temperament tested and what method was used? A good breeder will help match the right personality to you. If you are a quiet family and the breeder pushes a dominant pup on you, leave. On the other hand, if you like the look of one puppy and the breeder, after interviewing you, decides it is not the right match, respect that. 4. What goals does the breeder have with the breeding program and how does the breeder go about to achieve this? If the breeder breeds just to produce more dogs, for pets only or anything that does not go towards the bettering of the breeder's lines and the breed as a whole, go elsewhere. And if the breeder breeds for working ability first, you could end up with a handful! Look for one who breeds for companionship as well as type and working ability – unless you are looking exclusively for a working dog. 5. What does the breeder feel are the strengths and weaknesses in the breed and the breeder's program? The breeder should be open with you about the program and where they hope to go with it. Avoid the breeder who insists there are no better dogs around then his. 6. Can you see the pedigrees of both sire and dam? Can you see at least the dam on premises? The sire may not be on site but the dam should be. If not, you could be dealing with a broker (one who sells dogs not bred by that person). 7. What type of contract does the breeder have for pet or show puppies (it should include a spay/neuter agreement and health guarantee)? Do not get pressured into becoming contracted to show or breed your dog – even if you do plan to show and possibly get into breeding someday. Everything should be spelled out in the contract. And be wary of a breeder sells you a young puppy that is "definitely show quality." So much happens during growth and development – the younger the puppy; the harder it is to tell show quality. A breeder who really knows the breed can tell if a young pup has POTENTIAL but should not be guaranteeing the dog will be a show dog. Another red flag is the breeder who has no written contract at all. All puppies whether pet or show potential should be sold with a written contract. 8. What does the breeder feed the puppies? You want to try and keep the puppies on the same brand of food. If the breeder uses something you do not, gradually wean the puppy to your preferred brand. 9. What inoculations have been given? Eight-week-old puppies should have had their first set of inoculations and you should be given documentation of this. If not, go elsewhere. If the puppies have no boosters prior to leaving the dam, look elsewhere. 10. Can you get references of previous puppy buyers? If the breeder will not give them, go elsewhere. 11. Can you have your own vet examine the puppy before you fully commit? You may be asked to put down a deposit but you should have the option of having your vet examine the puppy with in a couple days after purchase (always a good idea to have this done and the breeder may require it). 12. Are you active in any breed clubs (all breed or ideally breed specialty)? Many clubs have a breeder code of ethics that they want their members to adhere to. Just being AKC registered is not a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. It just means the puppy was from registered parents and the breeder has taken the steps to begin the registration process for the puppies. Even pet stores can sell AKC registered pups if the miller registers the dogs. The AKC cannot police everyone professing to be a breeder so again, being and educated consumer is very important. Use your gut instinct and do not get suckered by cute faces or sob stories. Remember, this pup will be yours for the next ten years or much longer depending on breed. You should get the best possible puppy possible from the most responsible source you can find should you go the breeder route. Many of these questions can be adapted to ask at a rescue as well. Do not hesitate to ask what is know about the background of the puppies (or adult dog), what medical care they have had and has the staff noticed anything about their temperaments that could be of concern? Ask about the adoption agreement and have it gone through carefully with you." A good breeder takes a LIFETIME interest in ALL dogs produced. They want to know how your dog does in it's new home, love getting calls and cards from you and are always there to advise you of a problem comes up. If a medical condition crops up, they want to know so if it is potentially hereditary, they can alter the program and try to stop the problem in future generations. A good breeder is a mentor and best friend to all buyers and dogs they produced. And a good breeder will sell with a spay/neuter contract or alter the puppy or dog before placement! __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

12-20-2009, 02:32 PM	#15
Dame Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 239	Registry doesn't really mean much of anything if you aren't interested in showing... however I have found that in many instances unethical breeders often use breed registries as a stepping stone for making themselves sound more legitimate. Unfortunately I think the CKC has suffered because of this with their guidelines. To register a dog with no current registries: CKC: requires two signatures that certify the dog fits the breed standard along with photos for any dog that's not already registered. AKC: requires that the dog already be listed in an acceptable registry in the US (like the National Greyhound Association or North American Sheep Dog Society for example) and then you have to along the pedigree from that registry along with photographs. None of this means you get a better dog... with the AKC you're just getting a dog with papers from a club that cares a lot more about qualifications so to speak. Ideally I would love to see some registry come about that focuses on health and genetic testing - but there will always be ways for people to get around things if they are really set on it. Neither really assure you anything. The CKC has been tainted by the fact that it is very easy for your average BYB to register their dogs there, and the CKC registry makes them sound that much more legit. There are most definetely some decent CKC breeders out there. IMO I think how the breeder advertises their registry listing matters so much more. Someone who focuses so much more on just the registry versus the health and line of the dog is much more likely to be someone riding on a registry without focusing on the traits that matter. Registries are really... just pieces of paper. Its the health of the dog and the conditions that mean so much more... registries don't insure those things, but from a personal perspective - I've found that individuals who focus on where their line came from with certainly (so they have the ability to follow the various genetic issues) tend to have happier and healthier dogs.