Ignorant here.

[Jorja Rule]

Educate me. (Gently, please )


I had to figure out BYB meant "back yard breeder." I knew what a puppy mill was and my Jorja didn't come from a pet store.

I am a new to the world of pets. I have never liked dogs or cats at all and only until recently, say since August, have I even held and cuddled a dog. I know. I know. Whatever you're thinking, I know.

Here is what I don't understand. And, like I said, please be gentle.

What is wrong with back yard breeders? The general tone I get from reading YT is that anyone who breeds dogs for profit is heinous. Why?

My daughter has a male and he is responsible for my falling in love with Yorkies. I puppy sit him while she is in college and he has been a delight. I read somewhere that Yorkies are like Lay's potato chips...you can't stop at just one. I knew there would be a day soon that Jett (daughter's Yorkie) would not be with me daily. He has been so good for my clinical depression and anxiety! He makes me laugh and just having him sit on my lap and stroking his coat is therapy. I began my search for my own companion. Long story short, I received Jorja as a gift from my husband and children just two weeks ago.

Jorja is so precious. She and Jett are best buds and they rumble and tumble and tag and play all day long. At some point I know they are going to find another activity and we will do doubt have Yorkie puppies. Will I keep them? Not all of them...but I can see myself having two or three Yorkies scampering about. I know my cousin would like to have a Yorkie and I am sure I could find homes within my extended family for a couple more.

So anyway, I'm guessing this would make me a BYB of Yorkies if I allow Jorja to have a littler or two. Why is this a bad thing?

Again, please be gentle. I have a tender heart and truly just want to be educated about this.

TIA for your thoughts, experiences, and patience.
~Michelle (human to Jorja)

[Ashley V]

The thing with backyard breeding - the yorkie breed comes with a lot of genetic health issues like luxating patellas and liver shunts just to name a couple. Backyard breeders usually don't test for that kind of stuff, which can be passed down to the puppies.

If you really, really want to breed them, PLEASE do extensive research. It is not like having a human baby and the doctor does the delivery - YOU are the doctor. YOU have to know what to do in case of an emergency. C-sections are also VERY common in yorkies and are expensive so you have to be prepared for expensive procedures. Also with yorkie babies come tail docking, dew claw removal, regular check ups, food, emergency forumlas, supplies, etc. The cost can add up VERY quickly.

Also, I want to add that breeding can cause issues with the male... sometimes their personality completely changes and he could start marking his territory. You have to be prepared for that.

Also, what size is your female? If she's too tiny, she should not be bred because it could be fatal. I know breeders have said that they should not be bred unless they are a minimum of 4 lbs, but bigger is preferred and most people want the male to be smaller than the female.

If you aren't prepared for even just one aspect of that, PLEASE get them spayed and neutered. Puppies are nice to have around, but they take a lot more work to raise than what people realize. It's easy to say "I know they take a lot of work" until you actually have to go through it.

Hopefully some breeders will come on here and give you some good advice.

[TresCutePiggies]

I encourage you to read this post: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...must-read.html

I think it can you give an entirely new perspective on things.

[JesBred]

I agree with Ashley. Its a lot of work and if your not prepared it can be a huge surprise. If your family really wants a yorkie why not try some rescues? There are plenty of yorkies needing homes and you won't be putting your Jorja's health at risk.

The health risks with breeding are high and is very expensive after health testing, tail docking, puppy shots etc. I'm glad you are taking the time to inform yourself. I would do a search on cancer in dogs too. Not having them spayed/nuetered increases that risk. Also sometimes the mother will not make it through giving birth.. So just think is Jorja or having puppies more important? I was like you once and wanted to breed my girl just to have puppies to give to family but I educated myself and decided the risks are not worth it. Leave it to the breeders who put their entire effort into it. They are educated and want to improve the breed.

Good Luck on whatever you decide..

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by Jorja Rule

Educate me. (Gently, please )
What is wrong with back yard breeders? The general tone I get from reading YT is that anyone who breeds dogs for profit is heinous. Why?

It is because too often the focus becomes making $$ and the welfare of the dogs is not considered and often ignored.

[megansmomma]

With so many YORKIES that do not have home and are currently in rescue I would like to say please consider giving a homeless Yorkie a home instead of breeding. Many people get in over their heads not knowing what to expect having a litter of puppies. If you purchased a puppy from a BYB and your daughters puppy is also from a BYB and they have a few litters that are not show standard now you have say 10 or 12 more cute little Yorkies adding to the population that is getting further from the standard. So then the puppies have puppies because their owners want to spread around a few little cut Yorkie puppies too and now that number multiplies. Getting even further from the standard. Not to mention that you have not said anything about testing for genetic defects etc. prior to letting your cute little pups breed.

I have Pebbles who is an AKC Yorkie from a BYB. She's adorable and 11 lbs of Yorkie love. She runs and plays and has a grand old time with my 2 rescues male yorkie/maltese Morkies. But she is not breed standard and Morkies are not hybrids they are a mix. They would make adorable puppies but I would never consider allowing that to happen. They have been spayed and neutered. Then I also have my little man Truman who is my foster pup and he is a Yorkipoo. He could easily be the poster child for spay/neuter.

I have to agree, Yorkies are like potato chips but that doesn't make is OK to have litters of puppies for your friends and family. If you really want to make something to give away consider baking cookies.

There are plenty of Yorkies in rescue and depending were you live they are also found in shelters. Why take a chance of breeding the little ones you have when there are so many already in need of loving homes. What if you did decide to breed and something happened to the mom or one of the puppies? The rescue that I volunteer with just had one a Maltese mix from a mill turn over not only did the mom need a cseciton, but 2 of the puppies died after birth. This is common and heartbreaking.

*Please do not take this the wrong way* You said that you have anxiety and depression and watching your puppies make you happy which is wonderful! I wouldn't think that having the additional burden of worry from having a litter or two and the possible complications involved would be a positive thing in your life. If something did happen their would be no one to blame except yourself. Are you willing and able to take on that burned? I know I wouldn't want to carry that with me. NO WAY! NO HOW! But I can tell you that watching a rescue flourish and grow have made my life so much more enlightened. I would bet that if you tried it, it would have the same effect on you. It is a truly wonderful feeling to see and feel that love.

So in conclusion BYBer are something that I personally do not condone. There are way too many animals in this world and it is selfish to feel that this is your right to breed~because you want to.

[Gennies]

Michelle,

Welcome to the world of Yorkies. I can't imagine how you managed living without a doggy to love in the years before you came into the light

I will give you MY opinion on what a BYB is. To me, yes you will be a BYB. BUT don't take that as I'm calling you a bad name. I mean it in the sense that if your breeding dogs are not tested for genetic problems that may passed these problems on to the pups. So, yes that's a BYB.

PLEASE, hear me out. I speak from experience in the sense I have dealt with four dogs that came from what I now classify as BYB. AND my dogs have paid for their bad breeding with their pain, one even lost her life.

I'll explain...first was my German Shepard. We got him from the SPCA. He had hip dysplasia that started at the young age of three. With tons spent in vet visits / treatments he lived to be ten years old before passing. X-rays of the parents that the breeders decided to breed would have shown if they had signs of this painful condition. They should have never been breed.

Second is my nine year old toy poodle. She came from a small, family breeder. Much like what you are describing yourself to be. So I thought well she only breeds once a year, so the dam is healthy. I met both parents, they were very lovely, and friendly dogs. I had to have my poodle. Well, she had patellar luxation (where the knee cap pops out). She jumped off a bed one day, like she did every day, but this time she landed wrong and it blew out her knee cap. $1700 later and three weeks of rehab and tons of pain later her knee is well now. Again simple X-rays prior to breeding would have shown that the dogs should not have produced puppies to spread this painful genetic condition to.

Third was my doberman pincher. I thought I was educated now, so I asked the breeder if she showed her dogs and if they did genetic testing. She assured me she did and the ears were already cropped, which is common with good breeders of dobermans (I thought). So I took her word and the fact that she charged me $750 for the dog,that this was going to be a healthy dog. A friend of mine even bought a sibling to my dobbie from this lady.

At the age of 3, the sibling was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy and died within two weeks of being informed she had it. My dobbie lived six months longer, we thought we dodged the genetic bullet, but one day she started walking stiffly. The next day she couldn't get up. A trip to the vet and several x-rays later she was diagnosed with Wobblers (a condition that effects the spine). The bills to treat this were in the thousands, and she would never run again. This was a dog that loved running and within two days she was down, never to run again. We had to have her put to sleep.

Think about this...how horrible it was to sit with her as we had to give the order for the vet to overdose her on the knock out stuff they use to put you to sleep for an operation. Only she would never awaken after that. To this day I can't see a doberman without feeling the pain of losing my lovely Faith. She was so beautiful and looked like that picture of health, it was devastating.

Fourth is my Great Pyrenees. I got him from a farmer. The parents were there and they were working dogs. So I thought, they have to be healthy. Well......He is actually bow legged which causes his knee to pop out of place. We actually took him to an orthoptic surgeon to see what could be done for his problem. Just to see this vet it's $100 to walk in the door.

He told us if Garrett (GP) was a human he would have to under go extensive and numerous surgeries to break the bones and set them in braces to redirect their growth in become straight. However, since big dogs don't live but ten to twelve years, he advised against such drastic treatment. As most of Garrett's young life would be spend in surgery.

He recommend supplements of glucosamine and fish oil, and restricting his exercise to no running for two months and daily walks to strenghten the ligaments to hold the knee in place. Doing surgery on the knee may or may not work because his leg bones are not straight. We decided not to try a surgery that would be tons of pain if it wasn't necessary. We are putting the work in and have seen great improvement in him since starting this treatment six months ago. However, if he get overly excited the knee pops out. The vet showed us how to do stretches and massages to help get it back in place.

My yorkie came to me just three weeks ago from a rescue group. He was probably a product of a BYB as he was dumped in a shelter with tons of health issues at the young age of 1 to 2 years. He even has a broken canine tooth...can you imagine the horror he went through to break a tooth? I have become momma bear over him. He will never be hurt again and be the healthest he can be.

All my dogs are fixed. I had tons of family asking me to breed my toy poodle when we first got her. It was because she's so small and they wanted a little puppy too. I refused and got her fixed as soon as she was old enough. It may seem unfriendly or selfish, but I explain that she's not perfect and I won't want to pass on genetic problems to a puppy.

My sister had a female dog who came down with mammary tumors and she was never fixed. I assure you it is true that female's who are not spayed are very prone to this. She was 9 when they started. My poodle doesn't have them, because she doesn't have all the hormones running in her body to cause them.

I think if you love your babies don't do it! Don't you remember how painful pregnancy was? Your baby will become a mom and not be your baby during that time as she will have to take care of her own babies.

And what if she has trouble with delivery and needs a c-section or worst dies during the birthing process. Will being able to give your family members a puppy be worth all this to you? It wasn't to me.

When I agreed to add each and every one of my dogs into my family, I agreed to be their parent, their provider, their protector...NOT someone who puts their health and well being in jeopardy.

Recommend a rescue to your family, or a breeder who does do the necessary testing so they receive a pup that is as healthy as it can be.

I urge you to go and look at the yorkie health forum on this website and educate yourself.

You said your baby helped you out of depression, imagine how you will feel if you lose her because of a bad discission you made to make someone else happy. Think of your dog. She helped you, now you look out for her and get her spayed as soon as your vet says you can do it safely.

As you can see, I've had my share of dealing with BYB. Please, look at the post on BYB...it puts numbers to this. Even if you find homes for the puppies you produce if just 1 is put to sleep that is maybe a great grand child of your dog...that's 1 too many!!!!!!!!!

I will happily talk more with you if you need more information or have questions. Please, do not it. It's taken me a great deal of time and emotions to explain this to you. I hope it has helped. In momery of my Faith I urge you again...Please don't.

[Jorja Rule]

Wow. I had no idea. Thank you all so much for your kindness and thoroughness in explaining the problems that can come from breeding. I do appreciate the information and will do even more reading.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Jorja Rule

Wow. I had no idea. Thank you all so much for your kindness and thoroughness in explaining the problems that can come from breeding. I do appreciate the information and will do even more reading.

I am so glad to come back to you thread to see that you are willing to learn and keep an open mind. Post some pictures of both of your little dolls we would all love to seem them. I would also like to say Welcome to YT!

[annettepage]

My Oscar had to have the operation 2 weeks ago for patellar luxation. He is 5 1/2. No more running,& jumping. It is not easy to keep him down after 2 weeks. He must take it easy for 6 weeks! No walks, running etc. Besides the expense, and pills, please be careful about allowing your yorkie to jump. I am now worried about his other leg.

Annette