Rare yorkie?

[hasrv4fun]

Originally Posted by YorkyDiva

Sue, thanks for posting a true explanation.

Thank you - i was reading and thinking i had to type all that in and you saved me the trouble

I have a true golden boy that is just for my personal joy as eye candy

I hope everyone reads the explanation regarding these other colored Yorkies and the health issues that are mostly in the "born blue" and not label all "other" colored Yorkies as "not a real Yorkie "

[candybaby]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

I'd like to comment on the Genetic portion of this thread.

With the exception of Blue born Yorkies (who more often than not, do have skin, coat and health problems), the Parti, chocolate and golden colored yorkies are no more prone to genetic or health problems than the traditional colored yorkies are. I wish YTCA would accurately note this on their site but instead the information they've written, leads people to assume that ALL off colors could be genetically defective and be more prone to health problems - they are not! The health problems YTCA has noted, are the health problems associated with the blue born yorkies and not the parti's, chocolates, goldens or black and tans.

Put simply - Parti's have a gene that causes spotting, chocolates have a double dose of a gene that dilutes the pigment/coat color, goldens lack a gene that produces the black saddles and black and tan colored yorkies lack a grey dilution gene that causes their coats to turn to the desired steel blue color. All these colors are considered to be "off color" but they are no more prone to health or genetic problems than the standard blue and tan yorkies are.

Oh okay! I really like the color but don't want to get one if its going to have problems. I'm not going to get one from this person because I see all the "red flags" but am interested in possibbly getting one

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

I'd like to comment on the Genetic portion of this thread.

With the exception of Blue born Yorkies (who more often than not, do have skin, coat and health problems), the Parti, chocolate and golden colored yorkies are no more prone to genetic or health problems than the traditional colored yorkies are. I wish YTCA would accurately note this on their site but instead the information they've written, leads people to assume that ALL off colors could be genetically defective and be more prone to health problems - they are not! The health problems YTCA has noted, are the health problems associated with the blue born yorkies and not the parti's, chocolates, goldens or black and tans.

Put simply - Parti's have a gene that causes spotting, chocolates have a double dose of a gene that dilutes the pigment/coat color, goldens lack a gene that produces the black saddles and black and tan colored yorkies lack a grey dilution gene that causes their coats to turn to the desired steel blue color. All these colors are considered to be "off color" but they are no more prone to health or genetic problems than the standard blue and tan yorkies are.

I agree that the link I posted could be misinterpreted; do you have a better link that gives clear information on the chocolate? It is my understanding that while they can be beautiful healthy pets, they should never be bred.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by candybaby

Oh okay! I really like the color but don't want to get one if its going to have problems. I'm not going to get one from this person because I see all the "red flags" but am interested in possibbly getting one

Goldens have no greater chances of having health problems than the traditional colors have.

If I recall, Loryn at Parti Color Yorkies - Parti Color Yorkys - Party Color Yorkies yorkies (in California), has parti's but she also has a few goldens, you may want to contact her, she has a very good reputation.

Also, a lady in Virginia has a litter of Goldens due soon. I don't know her myself but I have a friend who has purchased pups from her and she speaks highly of the lady and the quality of her pups. Lady's name is Cindy Cash Chandler, e-mail addy: whostinyyorkies@yahoo.com. Feel free to send me a Private message if you need more information.

Good luck in your search for gold!

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Goldens have no greater chances of having health problems than the traditional colors have.

If I recall, Loryn at Parti Color Yorkies - Parti Color Yorkys - Party Color Yorkies yorkies (in California), has parti's but she also has a few goldens, you may want to contact her, she has a very good reputation.

Also, a lady in Virginia has a litter of Goldens due soon. I don't know her myself but I have a friend who has purchased pups from her and she speaks highly of the lady and the quality of her pups. Lady's name is Cindy Cash Chandler, e-mail addy: whostinyyorkies@yahoo.com. Feel free to send me a Private message if you need more information.

Good luck in your search for gold!

Sue, I love how you explain things. You are also correct about Loryn having some golden colored Yorkies.

Tammy

[Nancy1999]

Here's a link from Wikipedia, they state:

"Breeders of Yorkshire Terriers generally agree that breeding of such off-color dogs should not be repeated. Breeding of non-standard Yorkshire Terriers is usually done only by backyard breeders and puppy mills.

The "Chocolate Yorkshire Terrier" is not considered to be its own breed distinct from the Yorkshire Terrier. It is not recognized by any kennel club and it has no breed club; the same is true for brown and red Yorkshire Terriers. The off-color is a mutation to the Yorkshire Terrier breed and not in line with the breed standard."
Chocolate Yorkshire Terrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The only links that I can find that encourage this type of breeding are from people who are selling the puppies, not a good source.

[FL Tink]

Originally Posted by upindust

not sure myself but I did send her an e-mail on her teacup comment.

lol meeee tooooo!

[drbalkcom]

Our little Rigger is a golden. He is beautiful to us! He has skin allergies in the summer, but I think others do as well. He is the love of our lives His parents were both black and tan and he was the only pup born. The breeder breeder did not know of any others from this pair that turned golden. He was a black and tan pup.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I agree that the link I posted could be misinterpreted; do you have a better link that gives clear information on the chocolate? It is my understanding that while they can be beautiful healthy pets, they should never be bred.

Anyone can write an article, it's their opinion; their article can be biased or unbiased. I try to look at all sides of a story but tend to go by what the scientists say and by what the people who own or breed these colors have experienced. Just punch in "canine color genetics" if you want to learn about the chocolate color, you'll find 100's of articles on canine color genetics. You'll be looking for information on the "b" locus series of genes when researching the chocolate color.

Below are a few articles for your review:

Chocolate Yorkshire Terrier | Chocolate Yorkie | Yorkshire Terriers | Yorkies
Coat Color Genetics
B/b, E/e, and Beyond

As for the blue born yorkies, they normally have a condition called color dilution alopecia.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Anyone can write an article, it's their opinion; their article can be biased or unbiased. I try to look at all sides of a story but tend to go by what the scientists say and by what the people who own or breed these colors have experienced. Just punch in "canine color genetics" if you want to learn about the chocolate color, you'll find 100's of articles on canine color genetics. You'll be looking for information on the "b" locus series of genes when researching the chocolate color.

Below are a few articles for your review:

Chocolate Yorkshire Terrier | Chocolate Yorkie | Yorkshire Terriers | Yorkies
Coat Color Genetics
B/b, E/e, and Beyond

As for the blue born yorkies, they normally have a condition called color dilution alopecia.

Yes, I agree you should look at both sides of the story, but if one source is motivated by profit, it's difficult to believe the information isn't biased. The YTCA is quite emphatic that breeding should not be done for profit.

"If you are making money in dogs, you are either overbreeding or your dogs are not receiving the proper medical attention that they so deserve." Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)


I realize this isn't the opinion held by many breeders, and I only support those breeders who are members of the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America, (YTCA) for those of you who don't know, this is the parent club of the American Kennel Club (AKC).

"A responsible breeder will not intentionally breed for undesirable traits. On very rare occasions, a breeder will have a puppy born with a color anomaly. That puppy should undergo careful health screenings before being placed in a spay/neuter (non-breeding) home. A breeder should certainly never promote these deviations as being desirable or rare."

Pinehaven, your first source is a breeder who sells these dogs, and second and third study didn't include any Yorkshire Terriers, which is important if you are using these as sources because there can be huge differences between breeds.


Getting back to the OPs original question, are you saying that it is ok to use this dog as a stud?

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Here's a link from Wikipedia, they state:

"Breeders of Yorkshire Terriers generally agree that breeding of such off-color dogs should not be repeated. Breeding of non-standard Yorkshire Terriers is usually done only by backyard breeders and puppy mills.

The "Chocolate Yorkshire Terrier" is not considered to be its own breed distinct from the Yorkshire Terrier. It is not recognized by any kennel club and it has no breed club; the same is true for brown and red Yorkshire Terriers. The off-color is a mutation to the Yorkshire Terrier breed and not in line with the breed standard."
Chocolate Yorkshire Terrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The only links that I can find that encourage this type of breeding are from people who are selling the puppies, not a good source.

As I said before, articles are written with biassed and unbiased opinions. The link you've posted is obviously an old article or written by someone who didn't do their research, since the American Kennel Club does recognize and register these off colored yorkies, as do other registries. The article is correct that chocolate is not in the breed standard (but neither is black and tan). Man dictates what the standards are (and he changes the standards according to what he wants) but it is God who dictates what genes the dogs carry.

Since this breed was started with unregistered dogs, dogs with no pedigrees, dogs who were allowed to run loose and dogs who's heritage was unknown, there is no guarantee as to what recessive genes are hidden in some of our yorkies and no man can just "wish" these genes away.

If the off colored pup is produced by two registered parents, that pup has
just as much right to be registered as their traditional colored siblings have.

A good yorkie, isn't a bad color.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

As I said before, articles are written with biassed and unbiased opinions. The link you've posted is obviously an old article or written by someone who didn't do their research, since the American Kennel Club does recognize and register these off colored yorkies, as do other registries. The article is correct that chocolate is not in the breed standard (but neither is black and tan). Man dictates what the standards are (and he changes the standards according to what he wants) but it is God who dictates what genes the dogs carry.

Since this breed was started with unregistered dogs, dogs with no pedigrees, dogs who were allowed to run loose and dogs who's heritage was unknown, there is no guarantee as to what recessive genes are hidden in some of our yorkies and no man can just "wish" these genes away.

If the off colored pup is produced by two registered parents, that pup has
just as much right to be registered as their traditional colored siblings have.

A good yorkie, isn't a bad color.

We aren't talking about registration, we are talking about breeding the dog.

[melanie daley]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

The AKC Breed Standard and YTCA Code of Ethics states that they do not recognize chocolate.

"This includes all gold, born blue, liver (also known as red or chocolate), and parti-colors. One of the reasons for avoiding breeding "off-colored" Yorkies is because it could be a genetic defect that may affect the dog's health. Some health problems can include, but aren't limited to, severe skin problems, allergies, total hair loss and in some cases long-term illness and/or death." See Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)


Those that advertise this color as "RARE" are being dishonest in that they are just trying to enrich themselves with more money, in spite of the lack of pigment in the dogs they produce which could bring a genetic nightmare to the breed. These dogs should all be neutered. Shame on this person.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

"A responsible breeder will not intentionally breed for undesirable traits. On very rare occasions, a breeder will have a puppy born with a color anomaly. That puppy should undergo careful health screenings before being placed in a spay/neuter (non-breeding) home. A breeder should certainly never promote these deviations as being desirable or rare."

Pinehaven, your first source is a breeder who sells these dogs, and second and third study didn't include any Yorkshire Terriers, which is important if you are using these as sources because there can be huge differences between breeds.

There are many "responsible" breeders who breed "off colored" yorkies into their show lines to improve/enhance their show prospects coat color and texture. According to the YTCA's standards it states that the only acceptable color is steel grey and tan. That would mean (my thoughts here) that anyone who is using a black and tan or black and gold in their breeding program is breeding in "undesirable traits" unless the yorkie they're breeding to is known to be homozygous for the grey dilution gene (since half the litter would grow up with black coats because they will not have the grey gene). Please don't get me wrong, I own and like black and tan yorkies :-)

Basic color genetics in the dog are fairly simple but it can get pretty complex depending on the breed. In the Yorkies we are talking about simple genes at work and not multiple dilution genes, coat patterns or gene modifiers that are affecting the colors.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Getting back to the OPs original question, are you saying that it is ok to use this dog as a stud?

If your goal is to show the offspring, probably not - you may make some nice looking traditional colored gold carriers and if your female also carries the gold gene maybe a few nice golden pups.

Personally I don't care what color the dog is, if he is not the quality that I'm looking for, I wouldn't recommend breeding him to anyone.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

There are many "responsible" breeders who breed "off colored" yorkies into their show lines to improve/enhance their show prospects coat color and texture. According to the YTCA's standards it states that the only acceptable color is steel grey and tan. That would mean (my thoughts here) that anyone who is using a black and tan or black and gold in their breeding program is breeding in "undesirable traits" unless the yorkie they're breeding to is known to be homozygous for the grey dilution gene (since half the litter would grow up with black coats because they will not have the grey gene). Please don't get me wrong, I own and like black and tan yorkies :-)

Basic color genetics in the dog are fairly simple but it can get pretty complex depending on the breed. In the Yorkies we are talking about simple genes at work and not multiple dilution genes, coat patterns or gene modifiers that are affecting the colors.



If your goal is to show the offspring, probably not - you may make some nice looking traditional colored gold carriers and if your female also carries the gold gene maybe a few nice golden pups.

Personally I don't care what color the dog is, if he is not the quality that I'm looking for, I wouldn't recommend breeding him to anyone.

I don't understand how breeding an off colored dog would enhance your "show lines." Apparently we have different ideas on the definition of a responsible breeder, however I do believe it's misleading to suggest that only those people who intend to "show" their pets should buy from breeders who follow the rules set forth by the YTCA. Very few non-breeders "show" pets.