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07-07-2007, 07:31 AM | #1 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| I just tried the Citronella Collar I bought a citronella collar for Ellie last night to stop the excessive barking. I should probably say that I tried everything before this including praise when she is quite, shaker can and dumping water on her. We brought this thing home and I put it on her and got the broom out. It seemed to make the barking worse probably because she thought the broom was squirting her. She got really stressed out and I feel bad. It is going back and we won't be trying one of those anymore. I am sure it could work for some dogs but not for Ellie. I am starting to think she has an anxiety disorder.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
Welcome Guest! | |
07-07-2007, 07:45 AM | #2 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member | maybee she justs needs some more exercise i have a barker and i know if i walked him he wouldnt bark so much |
07-07-2007, 07:49 AM | #3 |
Slave to Max 'n Abbie Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,529
| I have 2 barkers but I think that they are just going to be barkers. I've tried different things but they still bark when they see people, dogs, or hear things in the house. I really don't mind it because they are dogs but other people do...oh well
__________________ Brenda, Max & Abbie |
07-07-2007, 08:07 AM | #4 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: American in London
Posts: 1,739
| Exercise is always a good idea. Also, never underestimate the power of mental exercise, too. Have you done any obedience classes with Ellie? I think she would benefit trememdously from them. And besides, they are fun! Here is a good article about retraining manic barkers: http://www.clickersolutions.com/arti...nicbarking.htm If you are looking for more suggestions, let me know. (Sometimes I have trouble differentiating between when people want help and when they want to vent). Sorry that you are having such a hard time!
__________________ FirstYorkie We Love Clicker-Training! |
07-07-2007, 08:31 AM | #5 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| I really dunno what I am looking for anymore. She does look out the window and bark quite a bit and I just tell her to be quiet and get her toy which she does do so I know it is out of boredom. With other things like the vacuum she goes into what can only be explained as out of her mind. She won't listen to anyone. She hates that thing Something similar happens in the pet store when I am holding her she goes wild eyed (she gets very excited) and she won't settle down. I don't know if any kind of positive reinforcement could work for this but if anyone thinks it can I am up for suggestions although it would be very difficult for me to get her to a class. I am thinking she needs some type of drug. Oh and a lot of people think I should just not vacuum around her... but if I always keep her out of those situations that means no petstore either (because she won't listen and settle down) which is really sad.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
07-07-2007, 08:44 AM | #6 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| Wow, Wow, Wow, Wow, Wow... FirstYorkie that article is Ellie exactly. Anything used to punish just adds fuel to her outbursts. The only thing here is that I have tried treating her for being quiet (not consistent enough) and I need to find a special treat because she gets homecooked food so she is always getting her favorite things. If you find any other articles like this please post. Thank You sooooo much.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
07-07-2007, 04:09 PM | #7 | |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ohio
Posts: 896
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07-08-2007, 08:19 AM | #8 | |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: American in London
Posts: 1,739
| Quote:
In your case, Ellie May, here are a couple of other things that I'd do. First, close the curtains and keep music playing to help drown out the outside noises that set her off. I know it's a pain but her adrenaline levels are really high. You want to calm her down a bit. She's so "out of her head" that she's not capable of listening to you. Here's another thing that takes effort on your part but would probably help. In theory anyway, a good leader (aka "the alpha dog" - ugh, I hate to use that term), always goes to investigate when a younger pup alerts them to danger by barking. Once you've investigated, you can tell them "That's enough. Quiet." If they continue barking, then and only then, are you within your rights to reprimand them for barking. Likewise, for outside alert barking, a good leader goes outside first, takes a quick look around and gives the all-clear before the pup comes out. Only then, can the leader indicate that the youngster is out-of-line when he yaps. I know these take effort but I think they would reassure Ellie that you have the situation under control - which means she can relax. Until you get her a little less wild-eyed, I would not take her to the petstore and I would put her in another room with a wonderful treat (bone or stuffed kong) while you vacuum. Yes, you want to get her used to those situations in the end, but she's not ready yet. I also think it would help her if you followed the NILIF program (Nothing In Life is Free). I'll post it below.
__________________ FirstYorkie We Love Clicker-Training! | |
07-08-2007, 08:22 AM | #9 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: American in London
Posts: 1,739
| Nothing in Life is Free ©1999 Deb McKean Undesirable behavior can be caused by many things, including undetected illness. No behavior modification program should begin without first taking the dog to a veterinarian for a complete physical examination. While you're there, give your vet a printed copy of this page and ask if it would be an appropriate technique for you to try. The NILIF program is an accepted standard in dog training/behavior but it is not, and is not intended to be, a substitute for an in-person, professional evaluation of your dog's behavior. This technique is intended for dogs in good health and of sound mind and stable temperament. The NILIF program is remarkable because it's effective for such a wide variety of problems. A shy, timid dog becomes more relaxed knowing that he has nothing to worry about, his owner is in charge of all things. A dog that's pushing too hard to become "top dog" learns that the position is not available and that his life is far more enjoyable without the title. It is equally successful with dogs that fall anywhere between those two extremes. The program is not difficult to put into effect and it's not time consuming if the dog already knows a few basic obedience commands. I've never seen this technique fail to bring about a positive change in behavior, however, the change can be more profound in some dogs than others. Most owners use this program in conjunction with other behavior modification techniques such as coping with fear or treatment for aggression. It is a perfectly suitable technique for the dog with no major behavior problems that just needs some fine tuning. ATTENTION ON DEMAND The program begins by eliminating attention on demand. When your dog comes to you and nudges your hand, saying "pet me! pet me!" ignore him. Don't tell him "no", don't push him away. Simply pretend you don't notice him. This has worked for him before, so don't be surprised if he tries harder to get your attention. When he figures out that this no longer works, he'll stop. In a pack situation, the top ranking dogs can demand attention from the lower ranking ones, not the other way around. When you give your dog attention on demand you're telling him that he has more status in the pack than you do. Timid dogs become stressed by having this power and may become clingy. They're never sure when you'll be in charge so they can't relax. What if something scary happens, like a stranger coming in the house? Who will handle that? The timid dog that is demanding of attention can be on edge a lot of the time because he has more responsibility than he can handle. Some dogs see their ability to demand attention as confirmation that they are the "alpha", then become difficult to handle when told to "sit" or "down" or some other demand is placed on them. It is not their leadership status that stresses them out, it's the lack of consistency. They may or may not actually be alpha material, but having no one in the pack that is clearly the leader is a bigger problem than having the dog assume that role full time. Dogs are happiest when the pack order is stable. Tension is created by a constant fluctuation of pack leadership. EXTINCTION BURSTS Your dog already knows that he can demand your attention and he knows what works to get that to happen. As of today, it no longer works, but he doesn't know that yet. We all try harder at something we know works when it stops working. If I gave you a twenty dollar bill every time you clapped your hands together, you'd clap a lot. But, if I suddenly stopped handing you money, even though you were still clapping, you'd clap more and clap louder. You might even get closer to me to make sure I was noticing that you were clapping. You might even shout at me "Hey! I'm clapping like crazy over here, where's the money?". If I didn't respond at all, in any way, you'd stop. It wasn't working anymore. That last try -- that loud, frequent clapping is an extinction burst. If, however, during that extinction burst, I gave you another twenty dollar bill you'd be right back in it. It would take a lot longer to get you to stop clapping because you just learned that if you try hard enough, it will work. When your dog learns that the behaviors that used to get him your attention don't work any more he's going to try harder and he's going to have an extinction burst. If you give him attention during that time you will have to work that much harder to get him turned around again. Telling him "no" or pushing him away is not the kind of attention he's after, but it's still attention. Completely ignoring him will work faster and better. YOU HAVE THE POWER As the human and as his owner you have control of all things that are wonderful in his life. This is the backbone of the NILIF program. You control all of the resources. Playing, attention, food, walks, going in and out of the door, going for a ride in the car, going to the dog park. Anything and everything that your dog wants comes from you. If he's been getting most of these things for free there is no real reason for him to respect your leadership or your ownership of these things. Again, a timid dog is going to be stressed by this situation, a pushy dog is going to be difficult to handle. Both of them would prefer to have you in charge. To implement the NILIF program you simply have to have your dog earn his use of your resources. He's hungry? No problem, he simply has to sit before his bowl is put down. He wants to play fetch? Great! He has to "down" before you throw the ball. Want to go for a walk or a ride? He has to sit to get his lead snapped on and has to sit while the front door is opened. He has to sit and wait while the car door is opened and listen for the word (I use "OK") that means "get into the car". When you return he has to wait for the word that means "get out of the car" even if the door is wide open. Don't be too hard on him. He's already learned that he can make all of these decisions on his own. He has a strong history of being in control of when he gets these resources. Enforce the new rules, but keep in mind that he's only doing what he's been taught to do and he's going to need some time to get the hang of it all. You're going to have to pay attention to things that you probably haven't noticed before. If you feed your dog from your plate do you just toss him a green bean? No more. He has to earn it. You don't have to use standard obedience commands, any kind of action will do. If your dog knows "shake" or "spin around" or "speak" use those commands. Does your dog sleep on your bed? Teach him that he has to wait for you to say "OK" to get on the bed and he has to get down when you say "off". Teach him to go to his bed, or other designated spot, on command. When he goes to his spot and lays down tell him "stay" and then release him with a treat reward. Having a particular spot where he stays is very helpful for when you have guests or otherwise need him out of the way for a while. It also teaches him that free run of the house is a resource that you control. There are probably many things that your dog sees as valuable resources that I haven't mentioned here. The NILIF program should not be a long, drawn out process. All you need to do is enforce a simple command before allowing him access to what he wants. Dinner, for example, should be a two or three second encounter that consists of nothing more than saying "sit", then "good dog!", then putting the bowl down and walking away. ATTENTION AND PLAY Now that your dog is no longer calling the shots you will have to make an extra effort to provide him with attention and play time. Call him to you, have him "sit" and then lavish him with as much attention as you want. Have him go get his favorite toy and play as long as you both have the energy. The difference is that now you will be the one initiating the attention and beginning the play time. He's going to depend on you now, a lot more than before, to see that he gets what he needs. What he needs most is quality time with you. This would be a good time to enroll in a group obedience class. If his basic obedience is top notch, see about joining an agility class or fly ball team. NILIF DOES *NOT* MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO RESTRICT THE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION YOU GIVE TO YOUR DOG. The NILIF concept speaks to who initiates the attention (you!), not the amount of attention. Go ahead and call your dog to you 100 times a day for hugs and kisses!! You can demand his attention, he can no longer demand yours! Within a day or two your dog will see you in a whole new light and will be eager to learn more. Use this time to teach new things, such as 'roll over' or learn the specific names of different toys. If you have a shy dog, you'll see a more relaxed dog. There is no longer any reason to worry about much of anything. He now has complete faith in you as his protector and guide. If you have a pushy dog he'll be glad that the fight for leadership is over and his new role is that of devoted and adored pet.
__________________ FirstYorkie We Love Clicker-Training! |
07-10-2007, 05:49 PM | #10 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ohio
Posts: 896
| Great posts FirstYorkie! |
07-10-2007, 05:55 PM | #11 |
and Bernie's mom too!" Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 8,283
| Wow, First Yorkie, that's some really interesting stuff! I'm heading over to check out that website now
__________________ Ginger Bernie Fun Kitty |
07-20-2007, 09:13 AM | #12 |
Piper & Sebastian Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: florida
Posts: 14,495
| Great info. Thanks so much. |
07-20-2007, 10:05 AM | #13 |
~*Glamorous Daisy*~ Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NJ // NYC
Posts: 4,010
| Great informative thread! Thanks FirstYorkie. My little miss Daisy likes to bark only when they're ppl around or are coming towards my house (i.e: Post lady, neighbors, pizza delivery man). I let her tell me that someone's here but will shake the can of coins when she's barking excessively or when I'm alarmed. She usually will stop right away. I've heard many positive things about clicker training as they provide positive results for stubborn dogs.
__________________ MissPinkBarbie The PiNK Club Founder |
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