The case against crate-training (vs. "gating") - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Wylie's Mom · 06-24-2007, 05:15 AM

I wholeheartedly agree with this article against strict crate training:

http://warreneckstein.com/pettips_caging.html

paulapoo · 06-24-2007, 10:20 AM

Me tooo!!!! Thanks for posting that.

RLC12345678 · 06-24-2007, 12:45 PM

I only part of that article I agree with is that dogs shouldn't be crated or "caged" 18 hours a day. The rest I totally disagree with. All three of my dogs are crate-trained. I will never own a dog that isn't. I've tried the whole "gating" route and have come home too many times to holes in sheet rock and shredded cabinets. Not only is it inconvenient, but it's also VERY unhealthy for a dog to be eating things of that nature. So, for the SAFETY of my dogs, I choose to crate train.

littlewhip · 06-24-2007, 01:06 PM

I also beleive in crate training, I used this method for al 4 of mine, how ever they are only in there crates at night to sleep and if im going to be gone more then an hour, mine even know there bed time, by 9pm they all go to there crates and go to bed. well except for molly, she is only 13 weks

but she is catching on real quick

RLC12345678 · 06-24-2007, 01:16 PM

I don't crate my dogs because I just want them to be housetrained. I want them to be crate trained so that if they ever needed to go anywhere (like a hotel, boarder, airplane) they will already be used to the crate. I also crate them so my house doesn't get destroyed. I don't want to use a baby gate because all of my dogs can jump over a baby gate and my lab can clear a 4 1/2-5 fence in one bound. Why would a baby gate stop them?

I choose to crate train mine because it gives me more peace of mind when we're asleep, away, or too busy to supervise 100%. And all three of my dogs LOVE their crates. I wouldn't take something away from them that they obviously like.

Erin · 06-24-2007, 03:00 PM

Crate training is not crating your dog for 18 hours a day. You really do need someone to be home to crate train, or you have to have someone let the dog out. Putting the dog in a crate and then leaving for 8 hours is in not "training"

The alternative that was given also requires someone be home. I would actually suggest a combination of the two methods.

When we go out the dogs get crated. We rarely leave for more than a few hours. It's safer. They *are* more relaxed - would you rather the dog be barking in the window the entire time? Loki loves his crate and for him it's time a take a nap. Sammy is getting used to hers - she was never crated at her old home. Trust me, it is a wonderful thing to be able to go take a shower or run to the grocery store and know that your puppy will not pee on the floor.

Also, crate training DOES work for housetraining and it is so much more than that as well. Loki is completely housetrained and Sammy is getting there. Crates are a *tool* and if used properly they work.

Yorkieluv · 06-24-2007, 03:21 PM

Informative article!

wemple2 · 06-24-2007, 03:55 PM

I agree with parts of the article and also disagree with parts. Let me explain,
I used a ferret cage for training purposes, from the day I brought Winston home. We took the top off, so we were easily able to reach in and pick him up, there was a vinyl pad on the bottom, a soft blankie, his food and water...and a few SAFE toys. This worked like a dream for us, as we both work full time, I swear there was zero accidents. We moved this cage from room to room as needed, in the kitchen while we were gone, in the living room while we were home and in the bedroom to sleep. Within 3 months he "graduated" no more cage...and still no accidents. He is now 3 years old and I do still and always will confine him to the kitchen while he is alone, with the help of baby gates. He has never chewed the walls or cabinets or anything else he's not suppose to chew...Because he was safe in his cage through the teething period. So I do believe they have to be confined in the early days, but it's not forever...I think it worked best for me, and Winston loves me for it...he's such a good boy.

FirstYorkie · 06-25-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erin

Crate training is not crating your dog for 18 hours a day. You really do need someone to be home to crate train, or you have to have someone let the dog out. Putting the dog in a crate and then leaving for 8 hours is in not "training".

Exactly!

Throwing a pup in a crate and letting him cry is also not crate-training. To be used effectively, puppies need to be conditioned to enjoy their crates.

I agree with the article that crating a dog for more that a couple of hours at a time is a euphemism for "caging" him. Leaving a dog in a crate so long that he has no choice but to eliminate in it is cruel, IMHO. However, I would not apply that label to a crate used properly.

I also disagree that crating - used properly - isn't housebreaking. By not allowing a dog to practice bad habits (ie pottying in the house), it is a very useful tool. Used properly, a crate can speed up the housebreaking process.

That said, though, I didn't use a crate for Joey like many of you do. I taught him that the crate was a great place to be but have rarely shut him in it. His bed is there and he goes in and out at will. I want him used to it in case the time should come when I have to use it.

Interesting discussion!

TinyBit · 06-25-2007, 02:50 AM

Lots of imformation. I have been told both ways work. I use potty pads and Duke went to them on his own. He always had full run of the house. But I don't have any carpets either.

lisatodd · 06-25-2007, 03:31 AM

i totally believe in crate training. all of my dogs love their crates. this is their own little peaceful home.

Nomiland · 06-25-2007, 04:27 AM

we have personally crated our little girl. She is crated about 6 hours a day while we are at work. The rest of the day and at night, she has the run of the house. We choose to do this because when we are not home, she can't tell anyone that she has to go out. She is like our child and like any young child I do not trust her home alone. I feel like she is safer in a crate.

MissSophie · 06-25-2007, 04:41 AM

I also agree with some of the article. But we do crate our baby while we are at work. However, someone comes home to let her out at noon or sometime around there. Also, she sleeps in bed with us. Yes, it is not fair to a dog to be in a cage for 18 hours, but it is also not terrible for them to have a safe, clean place to sleep for a short time. By the way, if we are gone for an hour or so, she is also fee to roam our house.

mistyinca · 06-25-2007, 05:36 AM

I think the guy who wrote that is an @$$, and he doesn't know the first thing about crate training. This is nothing more than propaganda for the purpose of promoting his own book.

I'm sorry, this is in no way criticising those of you who prefer NOT to crate, but it makes me mad to see stuff like this where someone is trying to explain crate training by making it out to be something it is not.

There is a heck of a lot more to proper crate training, than sticking a dog in a crate to keep him/her from pottying on the carpet. Anyone who just sticks their dog in a crate and leaves him all day is not using "Crate Training," but is simply "caging." He has a heck of a lot of nerve trying to confuse the two. We've used crate training since Chloe was a young puppy. She IS fully housebroken, and has been since 5 months. And by housebroken, I mean, she doesn't go in the house. She scratches at the back door to be let out; other times, it's when we take her outside anyway. She has never eaten poop either. She is crated when we leave, and at night, we leave the door open on it during the day when she's hanging around the house, and she goes in her crate on her own when she wants to nap or is afraid of the vacuum or something. She sees it as a safe haven.

I'm sorry...you don't have to agree with the concept of crating, and I respect that, but PLEASE don't think that the methods this man is talking about is crate training. When he uses the "cage" terms, he should stick to that only, because the methods he refers to bears NO RESEMBLANCE to proper crate training.

And FWIW, I would have very little confidence in reading any book by someone who has to totally contort the meaning of another method to promote his own.

Lil Max · 06-25-2007, 05:56 AM

As I read more and more, I grow more and more confused. I have a 7 month old yorkie that I have had for a month. She's great and I would say doing an awesome job with training. My husband and I tend not to crate her when we are away and have chosen to gate her. She has about a 4X4 space with her crate, water, 1 toy (kong), and lined with pee pee pads. In the morning I take her out, she does very well ( I have to say I crate her at night near our bed). We go in and she gets free roam of the house without worries. She is fed, we play a little. As I prepare for my day, she is gated in the kitchen (9x9) and does well (usually just waits for me to get out of the shower and continue with the morning)
Then I walk her again before I leave and put her in the gated area (4x4). For the most part, she waits for my husband to return home and has no need for the pads. When I try to lessen the amount of covered floor, she then goes on that small part of the floor I have cleared. If I go back to covering the floor, no accidents. Why is this? When we get home, we immediately take her out, she does what she needs to do and is fine.
Also, we don't really give her free access of the house when we return from work because there has been the occassional accident. How can she choose to hold it some times and others seem not to make the connection?

help? Will she ever make the connection and be able to have run of the house?

06-24-2007, 05:15 AM	#1
Wylie's Mom Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 35,889 Blog Entries: 2	The case against crate-training (vs. "gating") I wholeheartedly agree with this article against strict crate training: http://warreneckstein.com/pettips_caging.html __________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann \| Pfeiffer \| Marcel Verdel Purcell \| Wylie \| Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨°

06-24-2007, 10:20 AM	#2
paulapoo Blessed by Otis & Ollie Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Plainfield, Indiana Posts: 2,884	Me tooo!!!! Thanks for posting that. __________________ ~Paula~ proud mommy of ~Otis (yorkie) & Oliver (shih-poo)

06-24-2007, 01:06 PM	#4
littlewhip Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: wiith my furbabys Posts: 8,874	I also beleive in crate training, I used this method for al 4 of mine, how ever they are only in there crates at night to sleep and if im going to be gone more then an hour, mine even know there bed time, by 9pm they all go to there crates and go to bed. well except for molly, she is only 13 weks but she is catching on real quick __________________

06-24-2007, 03:00 PM	#6
Erin Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs Posts: 3,306	Crate training is not crating your dog for 18 hours a day. You really do need someone to be home to crate train, or you have to have someone let the dog out. Putting the dog in a crate and then leaving for 8 hours is in not "training" The alternative that was given also requires someone be home. I would actually suggest a combination of the two methods. When we go out the dogs get crated. We rarely leave for more than a few hours. It's safer. They are more relaxed - would you rather the dog be barking in the window the entire time? Loki loves his crate and for him it's time a take a nap. Sammy is getting used to hers - she was never crated at her old home. Trust me, it is a wonderful thing to be able to go take a shower or run to the grocery store and know that your puppy will not pee on the floor. Also, crate training DOES work for housetraining and it is so much more than that as well. Loki is completely housetrained and Sammy is getting there. Crates are a tool and if used properly they work. __________________ Erin, Sammy & Loki Sewing patterns and tutorials @ www.dogundermydesk.com

06-24-2007, 03:21 PM	#7
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	Informative article! __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

06-24-2007, 12:45 PM	#3
RLC12345678 I heart Hootie & Hobbs Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 7,149	I only part of that article I agree with is that dogs shouldn't be crated or "caged" 18 hours a day. The rest I totally disagree with. All three of my dogs are crate-trained. I will never own a dog that isn't. I've tried the whole "gating" route and have come home too many times to holes in sheet rock and shredded cabinets. Not only is it inconvenient, but it's also VERY unhealthy for a dog to be eating things of that nature. So, for the SAFETY of my dogs, I choose to crate train.

06-24-2007, 01:16 PM	#5
RLC12345678 I heart Hootie & Hobbs Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 7,149	I don't crate my dogs because I just want them to be housetrained. I want them to be crate trained so that if they ever needed to go anywhere (like a hotel, boarder, airplane) they will already be used to the crate. I also crate them so my house doesn't get destroyed. I don't want to use a baby gate because all of my dogs can jump over a baby gate and my lab can clear a 4 1/2-5 fence in one bound. Why would a baby gate stop them? I choose to crate train mine because it gives me more peace of mind when we're asleep, away, or too busy to supervise 100%. And all three of my dogs LOVE their crates. I wouldn't take something away from them that they obviously like.

06-24-2007, 03:55 PM	#8
wemple2 Wee Winston Wiggles Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Kewanee, Illinois Posts: 9,666	I agree with parts of the article and also disagree with parts. Let me explain, I used a ferret cage for training purposes, from the day I brought Winston home. We took the top off, so we were easily able to reach in and pick him up, there was a vinyl pad on the bottom, a soft blankie, his food and water...and a few SAFE toys. This worked like a dream for us, as we both work full time, I swear there was zero accidents. We moved this cage from room to room as needed, in the kitchen while we were gone, in the living room while we were home and in the bedroom to sleep. Within 3 months he "graduated" no more cage...and still no accidents. He is now 3 years old and I do still and always will confine him to the kitchen while he is alone, with the help of baby gates. He has never chewed the walls or cabinets or anything else he's not suppose to chew...Because he was safe in his cage through the teething period. So I do believe they have to be confined in the early days, but it's not forever...I think it worked best for me, and Winston loves me for it...he's such a good boy. __________________ As Ever, Kathy Intruducing Bentley Winston and Spencer: RIP My Sweet Angels

06-25-2007, 02:50 AM	#10
TinyBit It's a Yorkie Thing Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Walton KS Posts: 1,529 Blog Entries: 1	Lots of imformation. I have been told both ways work. I use potty pads and Duke went to them on his own. He always had full run of the house. But I don't have any carpets either. __________________ Loving Gizmo, Teddy, Duchess,and Faith : In Memory of My Duke of York 7-24-06 ~6-21-07 and Victorian Lacie Pearl 3-1-07 ~ 4-22-11

06-25-2007, 03:31 AM	#11
lisatodd Little Boogers Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: virginia beach, va Posts: 4,460	i totally believe in crate training. all of my dogs love their crates. this is their own little peaceful home. __________________ lisa lisa and the cult jam yorkies

06-25-2007, 04:27 AM	#12
Nomiland Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Powder Springs, GA Posts: 193	interesting article we have personally crated our little girl. She is crated about 6 hours a day while we are at work. The rest of the day and at night, she has the run of the house. We choose to do this because when we are not home, she can't tell anyone that she has to go out. She is like our child and like any young child I do not trust her home alone. I feel like she is safer in a crate.

06-25-2007, 04:41 AM	#13
MissSophie YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 807 Blog Entries: 1	I also agree with some of the article. But we do crate our baby while we are at work. However, someone comes home to let her out at noon or sometime around there. Also, she sleeps in bed with us. Yes, it is not fair to a dog to be in a cage for 18 hours, but it is also not terrible for them to have a safe, clean place to sleep for a short time. By the way, if we are gone for an hour or so, she is also fee to roam our house. __________________ Sophie's Mom :

06-25-2007, 05:36 AM	#14
mistyinca No Longer a Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 4,143 Blog Entries: 2	This is not what crate training is all about I think the guy who wrote that is an @$$, and he doesn't know the first thing about crate training. This is nothing more than propaganda for the purpose of promoting his own book. I'm sorry, this is in no way criticising those of you who prefer NOT to crate, but it makes me mad to see stuff like this where someone is trying to explain crate training by making it out to be something it is not. There is a heck of a lot more to proper crate training, than sticking a dog in a crate to keep him/her from pottying on the carpet. Anyone who just sticks their dog in a crate and leaves him all day is not using "Crate Training," but is simply "caging." He has a heck of a lot of nerve trying to confuse the two. We've used crate training since Chloe was a young puppy. She IS fully housebroken, and has been since 5 months. And by housebroken, I mean, she *doesn't go in the house. She scratches at the back door to be let out; other times, it's when we take her outside anyway. She has never eaten poop either. She is crated when we leave, and at night, we leave the door open on it during the day when she's hanging around the house, and she goes in her crate on her own when she wants to nap or is afraid of the vacuum or something. She sees it as a safe haven. I'm sorry...you don't have to agree with the concept of crating, and I respect that, but PLEASE don't think that the methods this man is talking about is crate training. When he uses the "cage" terms, he should stick to that only, because the methods he refers to bears NO RESEMBLANCE to proper crate training. And FWIW, I would have very little confidence in reading any book by someone who has to totally contort the meaning of another method to promote his own. Last edited by mistyinca; 06-25-2007 at 05:38 AM.*

06-25-2007, 05:56 AM	#15
Lil Max Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2007 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 16	trying our best with training As I read more and more, I grow more and more confused. I have a 7 month old yorkie that I have had for a month. She's great and I would say doing an awesome job with training. My husband and I tend not to crate her when we are away and have chosen to gate her. She has about a 4X4 space with her crate, water, 1 toy (kong), and lined with pee pee pads. In the morning I take her out, she does very well ( I have to say I crate her at night near our bed). We go in and she gets free roam of the house without worries. She is fed, we play a little. As I prepare for my day, she is gated in the kitchen (9x9) and does well (usually just waits for me to get out of the shower and continue with the morning) Then I walk her again before I leave and put her in the gated area (4x4). For the most part, she waits for my husband to return home and has no need for the pads. When I try to lessen the amount of covered floor, she then goes on that small part of the floor I have cleared. If I go back to covering the floor, no accidents. Why is this? When we get home, we immediately take her out, she does what she needs to do and is fine. Also, we don't really give her free access of the house when we return from work because there has been the occassional accident. How can she choose to hold it some times and others seem not to make the connection? help? Will she ever make the connection and be able to have run of the house?