Crate Training experts, please please help..

[Brooklyn619]

I want to get my puppy a crate. I wanted to avoid this, but I think it's about time. Any recommendations on brands and size?

Also guys, I really need your help...

I have never crate trained before although I've read a lot about it. Do any of you who work fulltime crate your dog during the day? How long is it okay to leave her in a crate? I leave the house at 7:30 AM and usually don't get home until 5:30 or so. My roommate comes home for lunch at 11 and would probably let Brooklyn out to pee. I just sort of feel like crating all day is mean, but I'm having so much trouble and I hear it's a good way to go. Please let me know if you think crating her for this long is inhumane. Last thing I want to do is make her unhappy and make the situation worse, but I've got to get this under control.

[Brooklyn619]

Or maybe a better idea would be to leave her in an ex-pen during the day and crate her at night and only if she doesn't eliminate when taken outside?

[biewerlover]

whether you choose Xpen or crate you must be consistent as to begin with it can be hard especially when they whine/bark. I have never used an xpen so not much experience there. I do use a crate, I do work fulltime but I run home on my lunch and let the dogs out. Right now just my 6mo old Biewer puppy is being crate trained, my Yorkie and Golden are fully house trained, but my Yorkie could not hold it all day (he is larger 11lbs). I start out with short intervals in the crate. Put the dogs food in the crate and feed in the crate, leave the door open to begin with, you want the dog to associate the crate with good things, not punishment. Slowly increase the time the dog is in the crate. I only feed in there for about 1wk. After then I put a couple treats and a few toys in there, put the pup in close the gate and leave. Its a good idea to start crate training on your day off so you can really work with it. Be patient as the pup will bark and/or cry. Do not take the pup out if barking, wait until he/she is quiet. They are quick to learn that if they bark they get to come out. Some people like to cover the crate with a towel or something. I use the plastic crate, not the wire, no reason just do. When I put Bentley in the crate in the morning, I put the treats in there and his toy and I tell him "house" or whatever word you want to use. I put him in there, close the door and leave for work, I do not make a big scene. When I come home at lunch, I do not take him out immediately, I come in the house, check the mail etc. Again, NO fanfare. When he is quiet then I let him out and take him outside immediately. When I leave for work again, its the same process. While crate training, I also put him in the crate when I take a bath, and at night the crate is next to my bed. If he whines when the crate is next to the bed, I lightly tap it and say "quiet". It took a couple weeks before the whining subsided, but it did. Occassionally, I will hear him when I leave for work, but I wait and listen and he gets quiet. Good luck, with patience and persistence it does work. Bentley will often climb into his crate when I am on the computer or something, he does this on his own now and lays down to rest.

Kathy

[Frankiesmom]

When i very first started crate training it was a disaster. He would scream, cry, kick, i felt it was cruel and instead switced to baby gatting off a pen. BIG MISTAKE!! as yorkies are very smart, he became a little escape artist and chewed all kinds of cords in my house. He had problems with potty training to go outside as well because he would just go as he pleased in his pen and couldnt be bothered to go outside. I took him to obedience and she recomended i give crate training another try. It worked like a charm. now he likes being in his crate, doesnt cry at all and sleeps in it all night next to my bed. Literaly within 2 days he was trained to go outside. It was amazing. And i do leave him in there for no more then 4-5 hours. I am home in the morning until noon and my partner is home by five and he lets him out. I would asume he could hold it 8 hours as he does at night as long as he goes outside raight away hes fine. They have a natural instinct to resist going where they sleep, and chances are slim he wont go in his kennel, asuming that your kennel is not too big. enough room to stand up in and move a little is what i have been told is best. Good luck!

[Anna Banana]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn619

Or maybe a better idea would be to leave her in an ex-pen during the day and crate her at night and only if she doesn't eliminate when taken outside?

I would reccomend this, rather than just crating her all day. I keep my baby in an expen whenever I'm not with him, with a crate(with the door open), a bed, food and water, and a potty pad. Its nice because I really don't have to worry about him when I'm gone, because he goes potty on his pad, and has plenty of room to romp around and play. Also, he likes his crate a lot, because he chooses to spend time in there, rather than being forced to.

[autumn star]

I have always used the crate when I am not at home and it has worked great for me. When I worked full time I would put my dog in the crate come home for lunch let him out and then back in until I got home. He actually liked the crate and would want to go in it at night. Autumn goes in the crate when I go out but I gate her in my bathroom at night and she sleeps all night. Good luck but remember be consistent or it will never work!

[Ladylavender]

I agree. Crate Training while you are at work is best. We crated Millie for the 1st 3 months while we were at work. I too used the plastic crate not the wire crate. I bought the smallest one and even with that I had to place makeshift cardboard boxes in the back of the crate to make it smaller so she only had room to lay and turn around it. Millie never messed in her crate. I removed pieces of the cardboards as she got bigger to make more room in it. I had her crate inside an x-pen. the x-pen was over a small area rug with the crate, her food and water bowl and a bed. (All this took up most of the area of the x-pen so there was very little rug area. When I was home and could not keep an eye on her she stayed in the x-pen with the crate door open. I would only put her in there after I had made sure that she had gone potty. She stayed 100% in the crate with the door closed when I was not at home. After a while the x-pen'd area became and extension of the crate and I could trust her not to potty in the x-pen (but i made sure she had empty bladder and bowels when I left her in there). After about 3 months I was able to leave her in the x-pen all day while I was at work and she never did go potty in this area.

So when you get her trained (by using the crate) to hold her potty while you are not there, at some point you can ease her in to the use of the x-pen, if she can be trusted. (she has to earn this thru her actions: no potty in the crate for a month or more and reliability of no potty in the x-pen while you are there). That way she has more room to stretch and play if she wants. At some point I gave Millie access to one room - the room where she "grew up" in, because she also saw this a an extension of her x-pen and soon did not potty in that room and little by little she now has access to the whole house. It's a process, and some day you may be able to give up the crate all together. So spending the rest of her life in a crate while you are at work will not be an issue. But it takes time, persistence and patience. Don't try to give her too much access too soon, otherwise you have to go back to square one if she is not ready for it.

Oh yes, I never gave her food or water while I was away. So her water and food bowl was removed from the x-pen when she was using it to stay in while I was gone.

Many may tell you that they think it's cruel to leave your puppy all day in the crate, but it's not cruel. I will say this, however: When I was home, she got plenty of attention and on the week-ends I made sure to plan activities that involved her. I did not want her spending week-ends in the crate (except for training) when I had every oppertunity to be there . It required a little sacrifice and disipline on my part, but I was working on having a well-adjusted, well trained, good mannered dog. And to this day that is exactly what I have.

[Brooklyn619]

Originally Posted by Ladylavender

I agree. Crate Training while you are at work is best. We crated Millie for the 1st 3 months while we were at work. I too used the plastic crate not the wire crate. I bought the smallest one and even with that I had to place makeshift cardboard boxes in the back of the crate to make it smaller so she only had room to lay and turn around it. Millie never messed in her crate. I removed pieces of the cardboards as she got bigger to make more room in it. I had her crate inside an x-pen. the x-pen was over a small area rug with the crate, her food and water bowl and a bed. (All this took up most of the area of the x-pen so there was very little rug area. When I was home and could not keep an eye on her she stayed in the x-pen with the crate door open. I would only put her in there after I had made sure that she had gone potty. She stayed 100% in the crate with the door closed when I was not at home. After a while the x-pen'd area became and extension of the crate and I could trust her not to potty in the x-pen (but i made sure she had empty bladder and bowels when I left her in there). After about 3 months I was able to leave her in the x-pen all day while I was at work and she never did go potty in this area.

So when you get her trained (by using the crate) to hold her potty while you are not there, at some point you can ease her in to the use of the x-pen, if she can be trusted. (she has to earn this thru her actions: no potty in the crate for a month or more and reliability of no potty in the x-pen while you are there). That way she has more room to stretch and play if she wants. At some point I gave Millie access to one room - the room where she "grew up" in, because she also saw this a an extension of her x-pen and soon did not potty in that room and little by little she now has access to the whole house. It's a process, and some day you may be able to give up the crate all together. So spending the rest of her life in a crate while you are at work will not be an issue. But it takes time, persistence and patience. Don't try to give her too much access too soon, otherwise you have to go back to square one if she is not ready for it.

Oh yes, I never gave her food or water while I was away. So her water and food bowl was removed from the x-pen when she was using it to stay in while I was gone.

Many may tell you that they think it's cruel to leave your puppy all day in the crate, but it's not cruel. I will say this, however: When I was home, she got plenty of attention and on the week-ends I made sure to plan activities that involved her. I did not want her spending week-ends in the crate (except for training) when I had every oppertunity to be there . It required a little sacrifice and disipline on my part, but I was working on having a well-adjusted, well trained, good mannered dog. And to this day that is exactly what I have.

Wow, thank you SO much! That's a great post and I really, really appreciate it. I just have a few little questions for you. Did you gradually introduce her to the crate or just leave her in there all day from day one? How long were you away each day and did you come home for lunch? Did you feed her in the morning and if so, how long did you wait until you took her out and put her in her crate? Does she sleep in her crate or with you? Thanks again! You're the best, and I'm glad you have such a great little dog. I'm willing to make as much sacrifice as possible for my dog to be the same

[Ladylavender]

I was lucky, because my husband is a teacher and we got Millie in July, when he was off work. However, we knew that in August he would go back to work, so from day one we did start working with her to be in the crate. He started her in the crate for 1-2 hours. He would work outside - (We have a mini-farm) and then come in and take her to go potty and play with her a little and put her back in for a couple more hours and so on. Every day, he would add 1-2 more hours until he had her up to 6-7 hours in the crate. He would run errands or stay working outside most of the day. so by the time he went back to work he had worked her up to 6-7 hours. When we were both working we had her in there from 6:45am until 4:30-4:45pm when we came home. (We live too far away to come home for lunch; it's a 45 min drive one way). Jim cannot leave the school anyway and we car pool. However, we always came straight home - in the beginning- no detours or errands, no matter what! When we got home, we took her out immediately, for a long walk. (Mostly at that age, she just walked around the property; now she goes up and down dirt roads for her walk) She would pee about 3 times and poo 1 time. We made sure she stayed out until she had her 2-3 pees and her poo. We trained her to pee and poo on command (but this came slowly and over time).

I would get up around 5:30am and would take her out for potty and feed her. (normally, she would do a poo sometime in the morning) I would take her for a 10-15min walk before we left for the day and she would do it then, if I remember correctly. Then we would feed her again when we got home after her walk. She slept most of the day, so she did not exert any energy to speak of and she never had any hypoglycemic episodes, even though she was very small, less than 2lbs.

Even after Millie was house broken, we kept her in her crate at night. I was not real worried about going potty in the house. She had other issues. She would bark at night if she heard sounds and would not bark if she was in her crate. Plus she would wander the house and wake me up and stuff like that. So we kept her in the crate. However, we would have to get up at least once a night to let her out to go potty. She could hold it all day, but when we were there, she always needed her late night potty breaks.

Also as an aside, even though she could hold it all day, when we were not there, she still had to go potty every 1-2 hours when we were home. The older she got the less frequently she had to go, but it's just as it is with any other puppy. The crate does not substitute for your active participation in the potty training process. So don't be fooled that you will not have to take her out more frequently then expected when you are home and that you will have to watch her like a hawk when she is out of the crate and x-pen, no matter what they can do when you are not there.

Oh by the way, Millie sleeps with us now. She sleeps on our bed and her own bed that is beside our bed. She doesn't wander anymore. She still barks, but if we keep her in our room with the doors closed, she does not bark at all. It's just if she hears other dogs barking, she has to get in on the act! She was about 1 1/2 years old before she was given the privledge of getting on our bed. But we had to work on that too. She had slept in a crate all her life, she did not know how to sleep with us. I started her out slow, with naps with me, or maybe only 1/2 the night depending on how irrating she was being.

I would never have allowed her to sleep with us in the begining. She was in puppy Boot Camp and that was too much leniency and a privledge she had not earned yet.

[Brooklyn619]

Originally Posted by Ladylavender

I was lucky, because my husband is a teacher and we got Millie in July, when he was off work. However, we knew that in August he would go back to work, so from day one we did start working with her to be in the crate. He started her in the crate for 1-2 hours. He would work outside - (We have a mini-farm) and then come in and take her to go potty and play with her a little and put her back in for a couple more hours and so on. Every day, he would add 1-2 more hours until he had her up to 6-7 hours in the crate. He would run errands or stay working outside most of the day. so by the time he went back to work he had worked her up to 6-7 hours. When we were both working we had her in there from 6:45am until 4:30-4:45pm when we came home. (We live too far away to come home for lunch; it's a 45 min drive one way). Jim cannot leave the school anyway and we car pool. However, we always came straight home - in the beginning- no detours or errands, no matter what! When we got home, we took her out immediately, for a long walk. (Mostly at that age, she just walked around the property; now she goes up and down dirt roads for her walk) She would pee about 3 times and poo 1 time. We made sure she stayed out until she had her 2-3 pees and her poo. We trained her to pee and poo on command (but this came slowly and over time).

I would get up around 5:30am and would take her out for potty and feed her. (normally, she would do a poo sometime in the morning) I would take her for a 10-15min walk before we left for the day and she would do it then, if I remember correctly. Then we would feed her again when we got home after her walk. She slept most of the day, so she did not exert any energy to speak of and she never had any hypoglycemic episodes, even though she was very small, less than 2lbs.

Even after Millie was house broken, we kept her in her crate at night. I was not real worried about going potty in the house. She had other issues. She would bark at night if she heard sounds and would not bark if she was in her crate. Plus she would wander the house and wake me up and stuff like that. So we kept her in the crate. However, we would have to get up at least once a night to let her out to go potty. She could hold it all day, but when we were there, she always needed her late night potty breaks.

Also as an aside, even though she could hold it all day, when we were not there, she still had to go potty every 1-2 hours when we were home. The older she got the less frequently she had to go, but it's just as it is with any other puppy. The crate does not substitute for your active participation in the potty training process. So don't be fooled that you will not have to take her out more frequently then expected when you are home and that you will have to watch her like a hawk when she is out of the crate and x-pen, no matter what they can do when you are not there.

Oh by the way, Millie sleeps with us now. She sleeps on our bed and her own bed that is beside our bed. She doesn't wander anymore. She still barks, but if we keep her in our room with the doors closed, she does not bark at all. It's just if she hears other dogs barking, she has to get in on the act! She was about 1 1/2 years old before she was given the privledge of getting on our bed. But we had to work on that too. She had slept in a crate all her life, she did not know how to sleep with us. I started her out slow, with naps with me, or maybe only 1/2 the night depending on how irrating she was being.

I would never have allowed her to sleep with us in the begining. She was in puppy Boot Camp and that was too much leniency and a privledge she had not earned yet.

You're a genius LOL. I will have some problem getting Brooklyn used to the crate as I work all day long... but I'll start this weekend leaving her in there for short periods of time during the day. Thank you so much for taking the time to post all of this for me. I'm feel much more hopeful now that I might be able to get my dog's potty training under control.