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07-08-2006, 12:44 PM | #1 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ohio
Posts: 67
| Help with "anti-social" yorkie Help. My male yorkie, Jig has some behavioral issues. I've watched "The Dog Whisperer", visited numerous dog behavioral websites and tried the techniques, but either it's not working or I'm not doing it right. Jig is the picture of delight and happiness at home. Whenever we take him out in public (we travel with an RV), he can be a nightmare. As soon as he sees another animal, whether it's dog, bird, chipmunk, cat, etc.......he loses his mind. He barks, attempts to run and often does, will bite if we attempt to correct him, snarl. He seems to get very excited, then all he// breaks loose as soon as he sees the other animal. He's O.K. with other people, including children. I've also had trouble with walking him. He used to pull like he was running on a treadmil in place in front of me. I had to put a choker on him and kind of train him to walk by my side. He'd doing better, but basically he's choking himself the whole time and I'm afraid of tracheal damage. I believe this is a dominance issue and according to something I saw on Cesar Milan's Dog Whisperer, he's got some anti-social tendancies. But I simply don't know what more to do with him. I can't afford trainers and with my work hours, my personal time is limited. This has got to be something that I myself or my family can do. As I said, he's wonderful at home. It's when other animals are detected. Please help. Any advice would be appreciated.
__________________ Dawn Joy Jig |
Welcome Guest! | |
07-08-2006, 01:25 PM | #2 |
Banning Thread Dictator Donating Member | I can't really help with the anti-social part, but I'd strongly advise against using a choker or any kind of collar. Yorkies can and do get tracheal damage easily, and pulling hard on a leash can do it. Instead, go for a good harness. Yorkies are small enough that you can control them just fine in a harness. To get him to stop pulling, I've heard you can just stop when he pulls. Switch directions. Don't let him dictate which way the walk is going. When he does right, reward him with a treat. Another thing you can do is teach him to heel. Hold a treat at your side between his line of vision and yours and tell him "heel" or "watch." Walk a few steps, and reward him the second he does it right, then gradually increase the time between rewards. I don't think any of my advice will solve the problem you describe, but it may help.
__________________ Mike ~ Doting Dad to Jillie, Harper, Molly, Cooper, Eddie (RIP), Lucy (RIP), Rusty (RIP) and Jack (RIP). Check us out on YouTube |
07-08-2006, 02:15 PM | #3 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ohio
Posts: 67
| I have 4 different harnesses for this guy. None of which "control" anything. I've tried the stopping-thing. When I did, I'd only get about a step or 2 and then have to stop again. He doesn't like any treat I've offered. I'm well aware of the potential for tracheal collapse and have only resorted to the choker out of desperation. He doesn't "heel" when we walk with the harness, he pulls. He pulls out in front of me and essentially runs but because he's attempting to run faster than I am walking he looks like he's running on a treadmill. When I try to give a little tug, indicating that I'm trying to assert control, he either doesn't get it or I wind up pulling him off the ground. He only weighs 2.5 lbs. I don't try to jerk him, it's just that harnesses just don't get the message through to his over-active mind. I've even stopped and made him roll over, to show him I'm the leader. It works for the moment, but to have to do that every 2 steps....is that reasonable? This is something I've been struggling with for 2 years now.
__________________ Dawn Joy Jig |
07-08-2006, 02:38 PM | #4 |
Princess Poop A Lot Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,728
| Dawn, I beg of you to not use the choker collar on your little one...their necks can't take it and you could be killing him. I realize he is being a typical Yorkie but don't you have a Petsmart near where you live? They offer classes in the evening and on weekends that are not terribly expensive. Also the roll-over or Alpha Roll is a myth and you are adding to his fear anxiety. Only dogs that are going in for the kill roll over there victims. If you do a search on YT for the Alpha Roll myth you will see this is not a factual form of teaching obedience in a dog. Also what kind of treats are you offering him? If you go to Petsmart or Petco they have some great "training treats" that most dogs love. Have you tried some chicken breasts or cheese? I really wish you luck and no harm to your little one.
__________________ Cindy & The Rescued Gang Puppies Are Not Products! |
07-08-2006, 02:55 PM | #5 |
I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 37,147
| One thing we do to keep Chachi from pulling is we only give him enough leash that he can walk beside us not in front of us. With him walking like that it curbs the aggression problems to. We saw this on the dog whisperer.I would not do that with a collar on only a harness. I would not use a choke collar you are going to hurt your dogs trachea. Especially a dog that small. We give cheese and delli chicken as treats and our dogs will do anything for it.
__________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427 |
07-08-2006, 02:56 PM | #6 |
Yorkie Yakker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ohio
Posts: 67
| May I clarify about the choker? It is not a chain. It is a nylon material that is the same material that the harnesses and leashes are made of. It is about 1/2 inch thick. I've even done what I've seen The Dog Whisperer do and that's turn the handle of a leash into a loop-like choker. The leash is at least 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick. It does not get tight. He does not choke. He makes a slight snorting sound which is as close to choking as I like to get. When he does that, I stop. I've hesitated posting my concerns because of this choker issue. Again, I am aware of the dangers it poses. That's why I have asked for some other solutions. I don't want to hurt my dog. I love him with all my heart. But I want to teach him to walk with me. I can only walk with him about every other weekend or so. I live on a pretty busy highway. I work 6:30a-6p, 5 days a week. I've asked my family to walk with him, but they won't until I get him trained. Besides, my children are typical lazy children of this age. They don't do anything that I have not begged, paid for or threatened them to do. Although I have put walking the dog on their list, they seem to "forget". I do not live near a Petco or Petsmart. As it is, I drive an hour and a half just to get his food. I also have this issue with how he reacts to other animals. And I don't think it's O.K. to chalk it up to "typical yorkie behavior". Just because we have little dogs that are spoiled and well-loved doesn't mean they have to be little beasts that embarass whenever they're around other dogs. There's got to be some answer to his behavior in this regard.
__________________ Dawn Joy Jig |
07-08-2006, 02:57 PM | #7 | |
Banning Thread Dictator Donating Member | Quote:
As for the constant corrections and direction changes on the walk, my opinion is that it's worth the effort. Carve out 15 minutes at least once a day to work on leash behavior. Don't even consider it a walk. It's leash training. If he balks every two steps, stop every two steps. Change directions. If you're using a harness, you won't be hurting him. The only thing being tested will be your patience. Do this at least once a day for two weeks. One thing working against you is he's gotten away with bad behavior for two years. It's not going to clear up overnight. My only success with something similar was when Eddie ran from me every day when I tried to put booties on him for the snow. This went on for two weeks, but I refused to give up. I'd pick up the booties, and he'd run under the bed or behind the couch. But I enlisted help, caught up to him every single day, put on the booties and walked with him. Sometimes he would only walk a couple steps with a treat in front of his nose. I settled for that and ended our walks. Eventually, and it was almost two weeks, he just gave up. He learned to walk in them and he quit fighting me to get them on. Now he loves them. And I agree with livingdustmops on treats. Keep experimenting until you find something he wants. I've even used tiny pieces of hot dogs. But again. I'm no dog whisperer. In fact, I'm more of a hollerer. A trainer will have better advice. Good luck! Edit: I just read your last post. If you can only walk him every other weekend, my advice won't work. Sorry.
__________________ Mike ~ Doting Dad to Jillie, Harper, Molly, Cooper, Eddie (RIP), Lucy (RIP), Rusty (RIP) and Jack (RIP). Check us out on YouTube Last edited by alaskayorkie; 07-08-2006 at 03:02 PM. | |
07-08-2006, 03:04 PM | #8 |
I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 37,147
| Try walking him beside you not in front of you that really helped Chachi. He is agressive too and barks at everyone on walks. Since we started having him walk beside us he has done much better
__________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427 |
07-08-2006, 03:09 PM | #9 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 3,306
| OK first of all, Cesar Millan isn't the best place to get your info about training dogs or about animal behavior. I don't know how he gets a TV show and all the other good trainers out there don't. There are no requirements in the US to be a dog trainer. He advocates this "calm, assertive energy" but then doesn't explain to owners how to do it. And his choke and correction methods fell out of favor long ago. You said your dog is biting when you correct him. Of course he is. It hurts. He is trying to tell you to stop doing that. DO NOT use a choke collar. There are simple no-pull harnesses out there for under $20. We like the "Easy walk" by Premier. There is also the gentle leader and others out there. Loki walks even on his collar now without pulling. It's easy to teach, you just reward the dog for keeping slack in the leash and when they pull, you stop. Pull, stop, slack, reward. They get it really quickly. You can also teach the watch command. This is not dominance. He's a terrier! They have prey drives. If he is uncomfortable around dogs he is probably also scared. (I call it "small dog syndrome") He just neds some positive training to re-direct that behavior. Since you said you can't go to classes, there are a ton of good books you can read. Check out your library for books by Patricia McConnell, Pat Miller, Brenda Aloff, Karen Pryor, Jean Donaldson, Paul Owens and Ian Dunbar. The books have excellent information, but honestly your time would be better spent with one or two sessions with a trainer. The books can only help you diagnose what you observe - a trainer will pick up clues you might miss. They can set you on a plan with positive reinforcement to help your dog improve in these settings. Please consider it. If you want additional information or more specific recommendations let me know. I'm happy to look through my collection for specific sections that relate to this. If you do hire a trainer, try to find a CPDT Certified Pet Dog Trainer and/or someone with a degree or experience in animal behavior. You are definately not alone with this. With a lot of work and a LOT of treats, this problem can be improved. You can teach him to watch you and to take cues from you. Good luck!
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07-08-2006, 03:20 PM | #10 |
Princess Poop A Lot Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,728
| We have had a lot of members have great success with clicker training. http://www.clickertraining.com/home/ Yorkies are headstrong and it takes a lot of work to try and get them to focus on you. I bet with the clicker training method you could work with him in your home for about 15 minutes a night. Basically you need to find some treat that he will go nuts over and everytime you want him to focus on you - you click the clicker (I think about $20.00 and you can order on-line) and reward him with a small treat. Soon he starts associating the click sound with a treat and will look to you for this treat. I know you are very busy but I just don't think it will work every other weekend during a walk. And trust me I agree with you on this statement but unfortunately I am the one that gets them like this because of rescue and I believe it is a high fear issue which makes them go after other dogs not dominance: And I don't think it's O.K. to chalk it up to "typical yorkie behavior". Just because we have little dogs that are spoiled and well-loved doesn't mean they have to be little beasts that embarass whenever they're around other dogs. There's got to be some answer to his behavior in this regard. Do a search on YT as some members have posted actual video's of their Yorkies using the clicker method.
__________________ Cindy & The Rescued Gang Puppies Are Not Products! |
07-08-2006, 03:20 PM | #11 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 3,306
| [QUOTE=ddiedre]I have 4 different harnesses for this guy. None of which "control" anything. I've tried the stopping-thing. When I did, I'd only get about a step or 2 and then have to stop again. He doesn't like any treat I've offered. I'm well aware of the potential for tracheal collapse and have only resorted to the choker out of desperation. He doesn't "heel" when we walk with the harness, he pulls. He pulls out in front of me and essentially runs but because he's attempting to run faster than I am walking he looks like he's running on a treadmill. When I try to give a little tug, indicating that I'm trying to assert control, he either doesn't get it or I wind up pulling him off the ground. He only weighs 2.5 lbs. I don't try to jerk him, it's just that harnesses just don't get the message through to his over-active mind. I've even stopped and made him roll over, to show him I'm the leader. It works for the moment, but to have to do that every 2 steps....is that reasonable? QUOTE] Yes 2 steps is about right. But if you do it every day for a week I bet it will improve. When I started this with Loki we'd walk our normal route around the neighborhood, but it took us 5 times as long with all the stopping. By the end of the week he had drastically improved and I only had to stop 3 or 4 times. In our Canine Good Citizen test the dogs have to walk without pulling. One of the dogs in the class (big boxer) pulled SO hard the owner didn't think he would ever improve. By the 4th class he could walk a few steps and by the final class he PASSED the test. All with treats and no choke collar. This was an 8 week class. So I've seen it happen even with the most difficult cases. He doesn't have to "heel" he just needs to keep slack in the leash. "Heel" is different than loose leash walking. You can teach that also, but it's different. To teach "heel" we used a target stick with peanut butter on it. It worked, but wasn't a command we need in our every day lives so we didn't really persist with it. But the technique works. (You don't need a real target stick, we used a dowel rod. Others used a wooden spoon. When he walks beside you he gets a lick.) The whole point of loose leash walking is that you don't have to PULL on the dog to "assert control" In fact, the best suggestion I've ever read is to attach the leash to your belt loop so you aren't tempted to pull on the leash. The dog WILL learn to respond to verbal cues and hand signals. The "alpha roll" doesn't work. If anything it just makes the dog more fearful. Also, I don't know if this works in your case, but for Loki it does. If I pick up my pace just a little bit, we have zero pulling. He just has a TON of energy and wants to walk quickly. Not a run or anything, but just quickly. Once we go a couple blocks and he's more relaxed he's happy to walk at my slow pace. Maybe try running with him for a block or two, THEN practice walking nicely. Just like making the kids run around the car 20 times before going on a long trip!
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07-08-2006, 03:24 PM | #12 | |
Princess Poop A Lot Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,728
| Quote:
I forgot about the Halti and Gentle Leaders. My first Yorkie Mix would also go nuts and using the Halti I had great success. It sure is tough trying to go after something when their actions make them turn in a circle.
__________________ Cindy & The Rescued Gang Puppies Are Not Products! | |
07-08-2006, 03:35 PM | #13 | |
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: N. California
Posts: 1,316
| Quote:
__________________ Candee, Bear, Daizy (in spirit, R.I.P) and Pepsi's mommy Last edited by candybaby; 07-08-2006 at 03:38 PM. | |
07-08-2006, 03:36 PM | #14 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 3,306
| You've made it clear you don't have a lot of time. I agree that 15 mins a day is actually better than 2 hours once a week. But one more suggestion you may or may not be able to do. Around here we have dog-walkers and pet-sitters. Obviously a dog walker or pet sitter doesn't want to walk a dog that pulls, so maybe hiring one would not only get some of his energy out but also teach him how to walk nicely on leash! Also, here is the link to CCPDT. http://ccpdt.org/rstr/OH.html The trainers are listed by state and city, although Loki's trainer is listed with the town where she lives, which is about 20-30 mins from where her business is located. So you might have to call around to see if they are willing to travel. Training is SO important and yes, it can be expensive (trust me, I know) but once the dog learns you only need to maintain. I mean, once they learn what sit and stay mean you don't have to keep going to classes to practice sit and stay, right? The class is actually for the human anyway - the dog learns at home! These things really do work if you put the time into them. Maybe the kids will even enjoy it?? When I take Loki to the park the kids want to pet him, but when I hand them a treat and tell them to ask for a sit or a shake and give him a treat, and THEN pet him, they get really excited! They all want a turn to ask him to roll over or high five! And they know the rules, that he isn't allowed to jump up, etc. I've got a couple of the neighbor kids really into it - they know his commands and like to show off his tricks to their friends whenever we walk by!
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07-08-2006, 03:49 PM | #15 |
Princess Poop A Lot Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,728
| Candy - I do Yorkie Rescue and am fully aware of issues with these little ones and how their behavior is. I have 4 that are biters that I can never adopt out and I have had to work with many more of them to adopt out to new parents. I am a big book reader of behavior problems in dogs and I believe the members that have posted here are very well versed in giving advise on training dogs. All 3 of us are more interested in behavior training than obedience training and there is a difference. There is not a quick fix and only time and dedication will help with this little one. Everyone is trying to help.
__________________ Cindy & The Rescued Gang Puppies Are Not Products! |
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