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Old 06-25-2006, 08:42 AM   #1
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Default housebreaking in or outside

Im not sure if I should train Molly in or outside to potty. In the mornings shes went on the peepad for me. Im thinking will she want to go outside when it gets cold?

I asked this on another fourm and got bad replys saying If I do use a pee pad it mean im too lazy to take them out and dont need her then.
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Old 06-25-2006, 08:43 AM   #2
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I personally did not do the pads. But, if that's is what you have to do I see nothing wrong with it. To me it's like having a litter box in the house. My dogs go outside only. I do have a doggy door and a very secure fenced in yard. It's just preference and the area that you have to work with.

Good Luck in whatever you decide to do. Remember it take time and patience.
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Old 06-26-2006, 06:32 AM   #3
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Loki goes outside when it's cold no problem. He plays in the snow. He's out there all of 10 seconds when it's cold. He is even faster in rain or wind! He dislikes those more than cold. But after we got past the training stage he's never refused to go out there. I just make sure to give him a better treat when he comes inside.
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Old 06-26-2006, 06:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autism mommy
Im not sure if I should train Molly in or outside to potty. In the mornings shes went on the peepad for me. Im thinking will she want to go outside when it gets cold?

I asked this on another fourm and got bad replys saying If I do use a pee pad it mean im too lazy to take them out and dont need her then.
WHAT? They told you that you were lazy. Obviously these people are clueless as to the merits of pee pads.

I have managed to succesfully train mine to do both. Yeah for me.

I started out by putting the pads wherever they chose to pee. They were confined to the kitchen only. Then I gradually started moving the pads towards one location, the back door. If they went back to pee where the pad had been, I put one of their beds in that spot. Meanwhile I also let them outside frequently. I fenced in my concrete patio.

I read on one of these threads to put the poee pad in one of those shallow, storage boxes, that fit under the bed, to keep them from peeing off the edge. I did that and it works great.

Now both of mine use the box, or go outside with very few mishaps. I still don't trust them enough to give them the run of the house. One is 6 months old, the other 4 1/2 months.

I'm proud to say they are doing great.

I'm planning to put in a pet door when money permits.
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Old 06-26-2006, 08:06 AM   #5
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WHAT? They told you that you were lazy. Obviously these people are clueless as to the merits of pee pads.
Yes but when I've explained housetraining, I've gotten responses like - "I have to WAKE UP in the middle of the night and take my dog out?" and "What if it's raining?" Is this just a small dog thing? People who get Labs just assume they are going to be outside trained. Are Yorkies different because the messes are smaller? Or because you have to let them out more often until they are full grown? Or am I missing something?

The problem is that when you teach your dog it's good to go on pads, in the house, you are teaching them that it's OK to go in the house. The inside/outside distinction is easier for them. I know people have all sorts of reasons they like their pads and that's fine as long as it works for them. I personally feel it's a compromise, not an ideal solution. JMO. Most people on here seem to disagree with me.

autism mommy I am NOT picking on you or anyone. You are just trying to get information. I just think I am just seeing a pattern here (on YT) and I'm wondering why. Why don't you explain a little more what your situation is, your needs, your expectations, etc for housetraining. That will help us respond is a more specific way.
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:55 PM   #6
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In my situation I want a little dog like a yorkie and one that is easier for people with allergies (like myself) which the yorkie seems to be. It seems the downfall is that they can't hold it for as long as a larger dog like you mentioned--a lab. So, how do we that have to work outside the home, have a little dog like a yorkie and effectively potty train them? a pee pad??

I would much rather have my yorkie trained just for outside. I come home at lunch to let her out of her crate. She has usually made it this long without going in the crate. I do not feed her while I'm home during the lunch hour, but when I get home at 5 she has usually pooped and peed in the crate. It is tiring to have to give baths constantly as she steps in the pee and poop. In my opinion this is why people try pee pads. ( although I haven't had real good luck with these either, as she wants to chew, rip and play with them) . What a challenge. I had a lab once that I had to find a new home for because I was so allergic to her, but she was soooo much easier to train. It seemed like she just trained herself.
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Old 06-27-2006, 06:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by doggieluv2
In my situation I want a little dog like a yorkie and one that is easier for people with allergies (like myself) which the yorkie seems to be. It seems the downfall is that they can't hold it for as long as a larger dog like you mentioned--a lab. So, how do we that have to work outside the home, have a little dog like a yorkie and effectively potty train them? a pee pad??
If you use pads in that situation, don't encourage them to use the pads - just confine them to an x-pen and clean up the mess and potty train when you are home. When they are old enough to hold it, confine them to a smaller space and remove the pads for good.

I too was limited to Yorkies because of my allergies. I have trouble with poodles and bichons and the other breeds people say are hypo-allergenic. A friend has Yorkies and I was always OK at her house. Anyway, Loki can hold it fine 5 hours in his crate now that he is older - a year and a half. If you are doing the run home at lunch thing, try taking the pup for a walk to make sure they pee several times and poop. Loki ALWAYS poops on his walk even if he goes in the yard before we leave. I carry multiple poop bags. If we need to go out for a long time we always walk him first to make sure he is "empty".

We also love doggie daycare. Once a week or every other week with the trainer and a group of dogs wears him out so much that a few hours of activity in the evenings the rest of the week is enough. In fact, Loki went last week and today I went to put his car harness on him and he just ran to his crate - like "Nope mom, I'm tired... I'm staying home and taking a nap" And he loves the car. He just wasn't interested in going anywhere today. I love doggie daycare!! The reason your pup is peeing and pooping in the second half of the day is probably that she's not sleeping. I bet she sleeps all morning and then is bored in the afternoon and doesn't sleep as much. They are able to hold it in their crates so well because they are asleep. :-) Try tiring her out more and you'll have better luck I promise. And age really does help a LOT!

Just look at some of the other posts just from today. One person said their dog is peeing on their wall by lifting his leg near the pee pad. Another said something like - my dog is pee pad trained although he prefers my couch leg. I mean, come on. Loki has an accident like twice in the last 6 months. He had one a few weeks ago because he came downstairs in the middle of the night and rang his bell and no one let him out. (I must not have heard him or thought I was dreaming. Normally I hear the bells, they are loud! Or he jumps on me and then runs downstairs.) I'll take pee on the tile by the door once every few months to cleaning up a pee pad (or the carpet) every day because my dog thinks it's OK to pee in the house.
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Old 06-27-2006, 07:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin
Yes but when I've explained housetraining, I've gotten responses like - "I have to WAKE UP in the middle of the night and take my dog out?" and "What if it's raining?" Is this just a small dog thing? People who get Labs just assume they are going to be outside trained. Are Yorkies different because the messes are smaller? Or because you have to let them out more often until they are full grown? Or am I missing something?

The problem is that when you teach your dog it's good to go on pads, in the house, you are teaching them that it's OK to go in the house. The inside/outside distinction is easier for them. I know people have all sorts of reasons they like their pads and that's fine as long as it works for them. I personally feel it's a compromise, not an ideal solution. JMO. Most people on here seem to disagree with me.

autism mommy I am NOT picking on you or anyone. You are just trying to get information. I just think I am just seeing a pattern here (on YT) and I'm wondering why. Why don't you explain a little more what your situation is, your needs, your expectations, etc for housetraining. That will help us respond is a more specific way.
Well what im thinking is this I have a 6 month old cocker s. he does pretty good with the potty outside I dont use pads with him at all. I was thinking if I took them both out at the same time would it be confusing to them? Will they want to play instead of pee? Pluse Ive never had a dog this small so Im thinking will she wanna go in the snow?plus ive had one near her crate just in case and she will go on it so I thouight it would be eaiser. Not in a lazy was becouse I take my cocker out but less confusing. also my cocker hummer can hold it in his crate all night no problem. But will molly since shes a small breed?
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Old 06-27-2006, 07:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin
Just look at some of the other posts just from today. One person said their dog is peeing on their wall by lifting his leg near the pee pad. Another said something like - my dog is pee pad trained although he prefers my couch leg. I mean, come on. Loki has an accident like twice in the last 6 months. He had one a few weeks ago because he came downstairs in the middle of the night and rang his bell and no one let him out. (I must not have heard him or thought I was dreaming. Normally I hear the bells, they are loud! Or he jumps on me and then runs downstairs.) I'll take pee on the tile by the door once every few months to cleaning up a pee pad (or the carpet) every day because my dog thinks it's OK to pee in the house.
Maybe you are a very lucky person and got a yorkie that was easy to train, does not mind going out in the cold and the rain and you have time to go home at noon to let it outside. Maybe you don't live in the country where wild critters and birds of prey roam at night lurking in the dark to eat your little guys.

Maybe other people live in apartments and taking them out means a ride down the elevator and a 5 block walk to a park in the middle of the night in the cold and rain.

I have trained mine to do both so when I leave home I do not have to come back and clean up a mess. They also go outside, in fact they seem to prefer to go outside, but they have not started asking to go out yet. And maybe eventually when I can afford a doggie door, I will eliminate the pee pad box.

When one asks for advice they do not want to be critiqued. They just want to learn the pros and cons so they can make their own decision to suit their individual life style.

Congratulations on having the best trained dog on YT. But don't too be shocked when one day you see him lift his leg on the corner of your sofa.
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Old 06-28-2006, 04:55 AM   #10
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I really appreciate your comments. Your feelings about the pee pads are issues that I have feared like peeing on my rugs and not being able to take her to other people's houses without fearing her peeing on rugs or carpet. I have done a lot of reading and most of the authors have the same view point as you--the house is off limits for peeing and pooping. This makes sense. Like I said earlier, it is just frustrating when they just don't seem to be getting that concept. I have tried everything I can think of. I can't tell you how many times I've thought---Oh I give up, she is never going to get this!! She is 7 months old now and I know, I've been told not to expect much until they are about a year.

Can I ask your opinion on the crate size? I have tried 2 different crates with her. One of them is a very small crate--big enough for her to turn around and lay down and stretch out a bit. The other crate is probably twice that size-room to move around a bit. When I used the smaller crate she stunk all the time because she would end up laying in the pee and stepping on the poop. I felt like this was cruel when she couldn't hold it while I was gone so I started using a bigger crate. This crate she can at least not have to lay in it although I know the purpose of the crate is to have it small and keep her from going in it. I guess it boils down to the fact that she isn't able to hold it for me all afternoon. ( I will try to tire her out a little more at lunch like you mentioned in your other post). Soooo, which crate or where should I put her when I'm at work-the big or the little? or should I use an exercise pen? With or without a pad? I just wish I could take her with. There are no doggie daycares here.
Thanks so much in advance. I have really wanted someone's opinion that just outside trains their pups.
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Old 06-28-2006, 05:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autism mommy
Well what im thinking is this I have a 6 month old cocker s. he does pretty good with the potty outside I dont use pads with him at all. I was thinking if I took them both out at the same time would it be confusing to them? Will they want to play instead of pee? Pluse Ive never had a dog this small so Im thinking will she wanna go in the snow?plus ive had one near her crate just in case and she will go on it so I thouight it would be eaiser. Not in a lazy was becouse I take my cocker out but less confusing. also my cocker hummer can hold it in his crate all night no problem. But will molly since shes a small breed?
Having an older dog train a younger one seems to work fine. I don't think it will confuse them. We don't have a fenced yard, so we take Loki out on a leash (I usually just use a flexi retractable and stand on the porch.) That focuses him on doing what he needs to do. He knows that when I put his short nylon lead on we're going for a walk or in the car or whatever. So he has learned the routine. With the leash you are right there to praise them when they go and stop them from getting too distracted! Soon they become much more independent and figure out that they are out there to pee, and they hurry up to get that treat!

As for snow, we shovel the yard if it gets more than a few inches deep. He only needs like a 5x5ft square. I throw Loki's jacket on him so his belly doesn't get wet - although then he just spends more time out there! We just wipe his paws off when he comes back. For bad snowstorms we keep a blowdryer by the door just in case. The first couple of times he saw snow he was like WTF? But my husband went out there and played with him in the snow and he figured out it was fun.

For sleeping through the night - it takes a while but they do it. We went through the crying in the crate but he figured that out quickly. I would just set an alarm at like 2am to let him out. Sometimes I'd let him sleep with us for the second half. Then he would be able to hold it 7-8 hours and I'd let him out as soon as I got up for work. Finally when he would sleep through the night. Now he looks at me when I get up at 6am and goes back under the covers. I let him sleep in until he goes and rings his bell to go out. You just need to remember that their bladders are tiny. Take her out when you take your cocker out. She'll get the hang of it, and soon she won't have to go as often. (And there will be accidents in between. It just happens.) Loki goes outside every 1-2 hours but he probably drinks 3 times as much water as he should. On a day where he drinks the normal amount he goes out every 2-3 hours. Also, even in the last month or two I've noticed he's holding it longer. They say their little bladders don't fully mature until 2 years old.

How old is your little pup?

JeanieK I'm not criticizing people's decisions. If you make a choice to use pads then that's fine. I'm just observing a mentality on here that Yorkies are impossible to housetrain so people give up and use pads. Based on what I've read in training books and learned from the trainer, they aren't the ideal solution for the dog. Maybe for the human, but nature tells dogs to pee outside. They can be trained otherwise, but it's harder to make that distinction. Yorkies are DIFFICULT. They are small. Housetraining takes a long time with a lot of mistakes. Loki was a nightmare to housetrain. But we persisted, read books about what to do better and signed up for training classes (not for the housetraining, but because he was a terror in general!) Training has focused his energy, and we still do it because he is still a monster in some ways so we have a lot to work on and it's fun. He wasn't fully housetrained until he was a year old, and even then we watched him constantly. Only in the past 4-5 months have I been able to totally trust him. A year of constant hard work paid off. The thing is, that once they do get the bladder control - then they already know what to do and it just clicks.

And Loki doesn't LIKE the rain. He tolerates it because he gets a yummy treat. Now he's so fast he doesn't even get wet.
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Old 06-28-2006, 05:52 AM   #12
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I really appreciate your comments. Your feelings about the pee pads are issues that I have feared like peeing on my rugs and not being able to take her to other people's houses without fearing her peeing on rugs or carpet. I have done a lot of reading and most of the authors have the same view point as you--the house is off limits for peeing and pooping. This makes sense. Like I said earlier, it is just frustrating when they just don't seem to be getting that concept. I have tried everything I can think of. I can't tell you how many times I've thought---Oh I give up, she is never going to get this!! She is 7 months old now and I know, I've been told not to expect much until they are about a year.

Can I ask your opinion on the crate size? I have tried 2 different crates with her. One of them is a very small crate--big enough for her to turn around and lay down and stretch out a bit. The other crate is probably twice that size-room to move around a bit. When I used the smaller crate she stunk all the time because she would end up laying in the pee and stepping on the poop. I felt like this was cruel when she couldn't hold it while I was gone so I started using a bigger crate. This crate she can at least not have to lay in it although I know the purpose of the crate is to have it small and keep her from going in it. I guess it boils down to the fact that she isn't able to hold it for me all afternoon. ( I will try to tire her out a little more at lunch like you mentioned in your other post). Soooo, which crate or where should I put her when I'm at work-the big or the little? or should I use an exercise pen? With or without a pad? I just wish I could take her with. There are no doggie daycares here.
Thanks so much in advance. I have really wanted someone's opinion that just outside trains their pups.
She'll get it! 7 months is right on the edge. I know they go days without mistakes and then BOOM right there. But it will happen!!

This is just my opinion, but if she's not able to hold it in the afternoon then you'll need to confine her in something like an ex-pen. Put it on tile, obviously, because when they are little for some reason they love to pee on the carpet! If you think she'll use the pad, you can try it. Just don't encourage the pad. I also worry that she might get used to it and mistake other things for the pad. Maybe give her another month and then try the crate in the afternoon again.

I've discovered that the pee doesn't bother them as much as the poop. If Loki would pee in his crate and sleep in it. If he accidentally pooped in his crate he would SCREAM to be let out to get cleaned up right away. He would stand as far away from it as possible. So I honestly think the crate is more for the pooping.

Changing the size of the crate probably won't matter, since you already used the smallest size. Most likely she couldn't hold it, the crate probably wasn't too big. Loki has a big crate he can stretch out in, but only after he was fully crate trained was he allowed to move into his big crate. I also got him a bigger one because when we are gone we tend to be gone for a few hours, whereas with the actual crate training they tend to be in there for shorter periods at a time. (Also, they will be crate trained before they are fully housetrained!)

Are you putting a blanket in the crate? We found out quickly Loki would pee on his blanket but hold it if there was no blanket. Nothing to absorb... It's not forever, just long enough to break the habit. Loki has a coolpad (like a doggie waterbed!) and a comforter in his crate... spoiled.

Also, I'm thinking maybe you should change when you feed her. Maybe feed her less in the morning and then feed her at lunch time. Time how long it takes before she poops if you can. Loki always needs to poop right around the same time he eats - within 15 mins of eating he needs to go out. Some dogs may go 4 hours after they eat! So maybe changing when she eats her biggest meal may help???
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Old 06-28-2006, 11:16 AM   #13
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Jeanie K, I appreciate your comment about living in the country. Although I understand where you are coming from, Erin. I was the one who posted the thread about my dog lifting his leg on the pee pad and peeing on the wall. I don't live in the country, exactly, but my property backs to federal forest which is full of owls, hawks, buzzards, snakes, & you name it. A girlfriend of mine, who lives nearby, called me recently in a panic because a flyer was put in all the mailboxes in her community advising that a small maltese was picked up by a hawk as her human mother sat right there on the porch. This is the second such story that I've heard in my county. Also, I have a girlfriend who used to have a yorki-poo, until it was stolen from her yard. Everyone knows how loveable & easy to steal this babies are.

I do think that it is a personal choice. I would just rather find a cure to leg lifting on a pee pad, than to have my dog taken from me whether by critter or another person. And yes, I am a worry wort & overprotective.

Also, as far as traveling..... I carry a pee pad with me. Since Snickers doesn't understand 'going outside', I just lay out the pad & say his command ('hurry'). I've done this with him on a leash in a parking lot while shopping & in the vet's bathroom just to name a few places. Those command words work like a charm. Snickers has not yet confused my bathroom rugs with his pee pads....Let's keep hoping he doesn't!
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Old 07-01-2006, 07:50 PM   #14
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Our Holly is trained to go outside and on the pee pad. She usually gets up at around 7 in the morning and goes pee and poop on the pad, then she comes back to bed. Most days she can hold it in until we get home from work, around 6 hours or so.
Except for the morning - she will let us know when she has to go. Sometimes we have a hard time figuring out if she wants to play or she has to go potty. In that case she'll just go on the pad. We do prefer when she goes outside, but it's nice to have the pad as a backup.
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Old 07-02-2006, 05:07 AM   #15
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Holly uses both. If I take her out every 3-4 hours she goes outside...if not she uses pee-pee pads. The pee-pee pads are also kept in her play area when we are at work since she cant hold it in for 8 hours. Do what is best for your baby and dont be discourage by what other people say . I use both and Holly isnt confused or etc. She knows to use both and does.
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