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Old 08-23-2014, 12:28 AM   #1
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Default Am I a bully?

Ok, I know I'm opening myself up to criticism but here goes.....


We adopted Stanley 3 years ago when he was 8 months old. We were told he was a "fear biter". He's been great with us & has never actually bitten anyone. My husband, myself & my 24 year old son can do anything with/to him. Stanley charges & nips at strangers coming into my home. He also charges & nips at my 26 year old son every time he comes, goes, or walks anywhere in the house (he lives here). We can't understand why Stanley dislikes my son so much, since he's never hit, yelled, or otherwise hurt/scared him. Our only idea is that he has a deep voice.


My son has tried everything including ignoring Stan while dropping treats as he walks past, sitting on the floor with treats on his body etc. Nothing has worked.


We've worked with a private in home trainer on & off for the past 2 years & she has worked wonders with Stan. He is much more confident & happy. Our trainer uses positive training, and I have always agreed with her methods. She tells me that Stanley is a combination of fearful & dominant. The way she explained it is that Stanley is a brat, who is afraid of my son & wants to chase him out of "his" home.


The trainer has been recommending something that I was hesitant to try for a long time. We finally tried it and it worked like a charm. I'm just feeling guilty because it seems like we bullied Stan into behaving.


What we had my son do was turn & pick Stan up every time he barked & charged him. If Stan is quiet, my son totally ignores him, if he barks & charges, my son turns & picks him up. This has had an amazing result. Stanley now allows my son to walk through the house in peace! He sometimes even seeks pets from my son.


I'm LOVING the results, but still feeling guilty about the method. Thoughts?? Am I a bully?
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:22 AM   #2
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IMO, absolutely not, there was no harm done to lil Stanley, now your lil boy is more at ease around your son, no more being upset when your son is there. IMO, Stanley is a happier lil boy now. That's what you wanted, a more confident, secure, happy lil boy. You did a good job and should be patting yourself on the back instead of feeling maybe you were a bully.
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Old 08-23-2014, 07:20 AM   #3
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No I don't think so. . You are not hurting him. Maybe he was hurt by a younger male that is why he does it to your son
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:28 AM   #4
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Good lord no - in the animal kingdom that wasn't a bully action it was a take charge, pack-leader move and your son gave him what he needed to feel comfortable around a human he didn't feel totally comfortable with before. Everything else he did preceded that and that was just the last piece in the puzzle. You never give up on them until you have solved the problem and this did it. As long as it wasn't painful physically or psychologically damaging to him and caused fear or anxiety, what difference does it make what it took to "fix" his problem? Apparently his barking and charging was his doggie attempt to get that last bit of acceptance from you son into his pack and now he's got it.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:41 AM   #5
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Dogs have a variety of bark styles they use to bring about the change they want. Just out of curiosity, what kind of charging and barking was Stan doing to your son before he turned and picked him up the first time? Did the barking include very hostile, you-better-back-off barking associated with head thrust forward and low, low guttural, growling, some threatening silences and bared teeth or excited, nagging-type barking or lonely, I-need-company-now type barking, or notice-me, notice-me, notice-me or please-don't-leave-me-in-this crate type barking?
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:40 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly View Post
Dogs have a variety of bark styles they use to bring about the change they want. Just out of curiosity, what kind of charging and barking was Stan doing to your son before he turned and picked him up the first time? Did the barking include very hostile, you-better-back-off barking associated with head thrust forward and low, low guttural, growling, some threatening silences and bared teeth or excited, nagging-type barking or lonely, I-need-company-now type barking, or notice-me, notice-me, notice-me or please-don't-leave-me-in-this crate type barking?
Jeanie, I'm so glad you responded, I was hoping for your insight! Stan would definately bark in a threatening way. He would actually lunge & bite at my sons pants legs, then run for cover lol. It was not a bark for attention, but also not totally ferocious if that makes any sense. It was more of an "I'm scared of you but this is my space & you need to leave" type behavior.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:55 AM   #7
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Teri & Joan, thanks for your kind words! I've been agonizing over if I did the right thing or not.
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:14 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by intilis View Post
Ok, I know I'm opening myself up to criticism but here goes.....


We adopted Stanley 3 years ago when he was 8 months old. We were told he was a "fear biter". He's been great with us & has never actually bitten anyone. My husband, myself & my 24 year old son can do anything with/to him. Stanley charges & nips at strangers coming into my home. He also charges & nips at my 26 year old son every time he comes, goes, or walks anywhere in the house (he lives here). We can't understand why Stanley dislikes my son so much, since he's never hit, yelled, or otherwise hurt/scared him. Our only idea is that he has a deep voice.


My son has tried everything including ignoring Stan while dropping treats as he walks past, sitting on the floor with treats on his body etc. Nothing has worked.


We've worked with a private in home trainer on & off for the past 2 years & she has worked wonders with Stan. He is much more confident & happy. Our trainer uses positive training, and I have always agreed with her methods. She tells me that Stanley is a combination of fearful & dominant. The way she explained it is that Stanley is a brat, who is afraid of my son & wants to chase him out of "his" home.


The trainer has been recommending something that I was hesitant to try for a long time. We finally tried it and it worked like a charm. I'm just feeling guilty because it seems like we bullied Stan into behaving.


What we had my son do was turn & pick Stan up every time he barked & charged him. If Stan is quiet, my son totally ignores him, if he barks & charges, my son turns & picks him up. This has had an amazing result. Stanley now allows my son to walk through the house in peace! He sometimes even seeks pets from my son.


I'm LOVING the results, but still feeling guilty about the method. Thoughts?? Am I a bully?
Don't feel guilty! I did the same with Gucci, picked him up when he displayed a grumpy attitude. I never picked him up with aggression or as a punishment, just gave him a hug and petted him. He acted bewildered if anything. Now, he comes out to greet me but not with aggression. I think he's happier for it, I know I am! LOL
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Jeanie, I'm so glad you responded, I was hoping for your insight! Stan would definately bark in a threatening way. He would actually lunge & bite at my sons pants legs, then run for cover lol. It was not a bark for attention, but also not totally ferocious if that makes any sense. It was more of an "I'm scared of you but this is my space & you need to leave" type behavior.
So he wasn't a truly vicious, fearful dog anymore or he would have kept biting not bite and run, just being territorial until he found out a leader who had already gained most of his trust had other ideas about his charging/barking/biting and took control of the situation.
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:34 AM   #10
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I think you did exactly the right thing.
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Old 08-24-2014, 05:50 PM   #11
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No way! If anything, you did what was right to make life better for your son
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Old 08-24-2014, 08:59 PM   #12
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If it makes you feel any better, if he tried this with another dog, one who wasn't fearful or overly submissive but healthy in mind and body, he'd likely get his aggressive behavior met with equal hostility - a warning growl, snap or nip or outright fight until he learned to stop that unstable type of behavior. Other dogs don't like instability and will discipline a dog displaying it. So the mere act of your son merely picking him up in his arms is nowhere near the type of justice another dog would naturally and instinctively mete out to him.
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Old 08-25-2014, 04:13 PM   #13
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Mock charges show the dog that the human has claimed assertion and leadership which most insecure dogs need humans to do more than anything.


My dog was the same way and now that I have mock charged him when he barks at the door, for example, he is a much more confident little dog because he knows I have the situation under control.


I also learned from Teddy's trainer that you should lower your chin to your neck and look up from under your brow when giving commands to a dominant dog as it mimics a warning look from the mother...


Not sure how true this is but it works and so you shouldn't feel guilty. Relieving your dog of authority he doesn't actually have is a gift for you all as it makes for a peaceful environment. Everyone knows where they stand.
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:19 PM   #14
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Mock charges show the dog that the human has claimed assertion and leadership which most insecure dogs need humans to do more than anything.


My dog was the same way and now that I have mock charged him when he barks at the door, for example, he is a much more confident little dog because he knows I have the situation under control.


I also learned from Teddy's trainer that you should lower your chin to your neck and look up from under your brow when giving commands to a dominant dog as it mimics a warning look from the mother...


Not sure how true this is but it works and so you shouldn't feel guilty. Relieving your dog of authority he doesn't actually have is a gift for you all as it makes for a peaceful environment. Everyone knows where they stand.

Sorry to be dense, but not sure what "mock charges" are?
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Old 08-25-2014, 11:19 PM   #15
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Sorry to be dense, but not sure what "mock charges" are?
Sorry I didn't explain initially. I didn't know what this phrase meant until the trainer told me so you're not dense at all!


'Mock charge' just refers to pretending to charge your dog. After all, we're not really going to charge our animals like 2 rhinos or rams, for example.


It's just stomping the ground and moving toward the dog to assert authority. No touching involved.


Hope that makes sense?
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