I'm at my wits end

[McheleM]

Allie has always been potty trained for pads. She was consistent from the day I brought her home....

Ever since she had the litter of puppies she just doesn't care. She'll just stop and pee or poop where ever. I'll put out potty pads and she'll pee or poop within 2 feet of it, on my carpet or floor. I put freshly laundered blankets and beds in the pen area and she will pee or poop on them, and everywhere but the potty pads.

I don't know what to do??? How do I start over with a 3 yr old dog?? I don't think crate training would work since she already pees on the bedding in the pen. And until the pups are fully vaccinated, I can't take her outside because I don't want to risk bringing anything into the house from the yard (we had parvo 3 years ago).

I need help.....!

[kjc]

Exactly that! Start over from square one, just as if she was a puppy. Confine her to a room that's easy to clean up with pads in it. Only let her out when you can watch her. Reward her with praise and treats when she does it right.

But first I'd have the vet check her for any infection/illness....

[McheleM]

Originally Posted by kjc

Exactly that! Start over from square one, just as if she was a puppy. Confine her to a room that's easy to clean up with pads in it. Only let her out when you can watch her. Reward her with praise and treats when she does it right.

But first I'd have the vet check her for any infection/illness....

She and the pups were vet checked 2 weeks ago, and nothing seemed out of the ordinary.
I removed all extra bedding from the pen and put an individual bed in each crate. The only thing in the pen is a potty pad and a bowl of water and 4 crates. I crated them all last night, and let them out this morning individually to go potty, and she went on the pad. I told her good girl and gave her treats and then did the same with the boys and pups. Then we played for a bit and all went back into crates when I left to run errands. When I got back we did the same thing, except that I left them out a little longer-my daughter picked Lark up today, so they were all playing with new toys. When my husband got home, we crated them again so we could go eat dinner and I let them out to play and potty when we got home and then recrated. So far we've had no accidents (other than one of the puppies pulling the potty pad across the pen and turning it upside down when I was doing one on one with another dog).
I'm hoping it re-clicks for her.

[kjc]

I'm sure it will. Maybe she's having some stress?

[McheleM]

Originally Posted by kjc

I'm sure it will. Maybe she's having some stress?

Maybe. She's always been a little OCD if you ask me, and even now tends to want to "discipline" the pups, even when they're playing with us (one was attacking my husbands pants and she went over and basically made her stop). I know she wasn't a great mommy to begin with, she did the basics but didn't go above and beyond, and now the pups are leaving.

Could it be jealousy? I know we spent a lot of time nursing pups, taking care of pups, cleaning up after pups and we spend time with the adults but, mostly as a group and the pups do get a lot of attention. Do you think dogs have the same mindset as children who act out for attention? Even though it's negative attention (ie me telling her no! And then mumbling about it afterwards) it's still attention that she's getting that isn't focused on pups. (I'm thinking back to when I was a child and I didn't do my homework because it was the only way my mom spoke to me. Granted she was yelling, but at least she acknowledged me).

I guess I'll try spending more one on one time with her and see if it improves, although before the pups came, it was her, Noah and Westley as a group. When she went into heat, she was singled out and got to spend more alone time with my husband and me and then when she was pregnant and towards the end of the pregnancy, it was just her and I all the time until pups came.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by McheleM

Maybe. She's always been a little OCD if you ask me, and even now tends to want to "discipline" the pups, even when they're playing with us (one was attacking my husbands pants and she went over and basically made her stop). I know she wasn't a great mommy to begin with, she did the basics but didn't go above and beyond, and now the pups are leaving.

Could it be jealousy? I know we spent a lot of time nursing pups, taking care of pups, cleaning up after pups and we spend time with the adults but, mostly as a group and the pups do get a lot of attention. Do you think dogs have the same mindset as children who act out for attention? Even though it's negative attention (ie me telling her no! And then mumbling about it afterwards) it's still attention that she's getting that isn't focused on pups. (I'm thinking back to when I was a child and I didn't do my homework because it was the only way my mom spoke to me. Granted she was yelling, but at least she acknowledged me).

I guess I'll try spending more one on one time with her and see if it improves, although before the pups came, it was her, Noah and Westley as a group. When she went into heat, she was singled out and got to spend more alone time with my husband and me and then when she was pregnant and towards the end of the pregnancy, it was just her and I all the time until pups came.

Exactly! Giving her a little 'special' attention will turn the situation around in no time! And also the stress of the pups leaving, your stresses, the pups getting bigger demanding attention... all of that I'm sure she's picking up on... and you're right... bad attention is better than no attention (or not enough). Sometimes retraining isn't even necessary when they're doing it just to get more attention, just a few minutes everyday extra can be enough. Like when everyone is out, just single her out by calling her over to you for a hug and a cuddle could do it!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Some thoughts for what they might be worth:

She could have some sensory deficit from some type of occult birthing injury during her recent bout of whelping and is unable to hold herself. I'd have my vet check her over and if he finds nothing, just keep on confining her to areas where the floors are covered in pads and newspaper until she begins to regain her control.

Likely stress and anxiety could be playing a role in her new habits also. Plus, the loss of her former routine schedule and suddenly living full time around the messy puppies with lots of dampness, poop and untidiness associated with their toilet habits and ways has probably eaten into her sense of fastidiousness and given her a sense that messing one's area is acceptable for now.

If, once the puppies are all in their new homes, she is still doing this, you will need to start housebreaking over for a while by confining her for periods of time on a regular schedule until she begins to dislike living in her damp and dirty quarters, sans the puppies this time for behavior reinforcement, and begins to hold herself again until she's let out hourly to use her pads/go outside and receive her treat and praise or back into confinement if she doesn't potty that time. Wait another 30 mins. and then out again, back in if she doesn't go, perhaps with a new toy or chew to busy herself.

Then, if she does potty when let outside and she's received her proper positive reinforcement with a treat and lots and lots of praise and pride in her accomplishment, after a time out of the crate after she's relieved herself, I'd allow her to play a while and explore the room she's confined to with me right there watching her every move while she out and about and let her outside to run and play, then back in for some cuddling/loving, then re-confine her with a treat or kibble-filled kong toy and she'll be ready for a nap most likely after finishing off her kong. As soon as she awakens from that nap, let her out again to potty on the pad, re-confine for another 15 - 30 minutes if she doesn't and continue that schedule for a two-week period of time and reassess her progress after that.

And when you do put her back in the crate, tell her "Oh boy! Time to go play in the crate! Yea!!!! and clap your hands, act all excited, smile and be happy and say it sooooo infectiously, as if she's won the lottery and going into the crate is just the best thing in the world. Your upbeat, fake-happy attitude will become contagious to her and going in the crate with her new chew toy or kong will be seen as a great thing if you ham it up enough. And she's not having to spend hours in it but knows the crate time will just be for an hour or so, until she awakens after her nap, a smart dog will accept that, chew or play with their kong and then nap until it's time to come out again. Two weeks of this should start her wanting to hold her pee/poo until it's time to come out again as soon as the schedule tells her body-clock it is time(because you still stick to a strict schedule) and then you can continue as necessary for longer if need be, but she should be picking up the beginnings of her former good toilet habits again by that time, though she may need some more training to get her back to fully being clean in the house.

A schedule and confinement with specific, regular times out of confinement and then back in for naps, etc., will most likely get her back on schedule once her puppies are all gone and if she's okay physically and happy in her home situation.