Newbie Needs Help With Anger Management

[Jax_Mom]

Hi.... I am Jax_Mom and I need Help!

I actually have three little kids. Pitty Pat, a Yorkie, is 3, Jax, a Yorkie, is 4 & Sadie, a Pekingese, is 5.

When we decide to add Pitty Pat to our family at 5 weeks old, Jax was 1.4 yrs. and Sadie was 2.5 yrs….. For the first 8 months these three were inseparable. They played together, ate together, and slept together. They played tug of war with toys but never would they be rough with each other. Our home was a peaceful place to be.

When our Pitty was 8 months old, for no known reason, she and Sadie had a spat. I immediately scolded both. Everything was fine for a couple of days then they had another spat, no reason, no food, no toys or treats were around. Once again I scolded them. All went well until the next day. It was an all out dog fight. Pitty Pat had Sadie by the ear and would NOT let go. She was vicious. Her eyes were blood shot, she was growling. Sadie could not get a hold of Pitty but was also growling. We finally got Pitty Pat to let go by pinching her nose closed. Sadie’s ear was torn and had to be treated. Both girls are very obiedient and know their commands and are very well behaved around other k9’s …male & female. But they hate each other.

Fast Forward 2 years. We have had to split our house in half. We have doggie doors but we must always make sure that only one girl is out at a time. Jax loves them both and they both love Jax so play time has to be shared between both girls. However, if by chance, these two girls get together OMGosh! We have to pry them apart. Pitty always comes out the winner. Sadie tries her best but has never won. If they see each other through the sliders they go crazy. This has made our lives miserable. It is a constant musical chairs, baby gates, making sure doggie doors are closed, bedroom doors are closed. My husband & I having to give each other the “Alls Clear” before opening a gate or door. All three sleep in our bedroom. Pitty sleeps is in her kennel, Sadie sleeps in the master bath in her bed while Jax is chillaxing wherever he pleases.

Please Do not suggest that we give up one of our girls. How could we ever choose who is to stay and who is to leave? Our vet told us to put harnesses on each girl, leash both dogs in the same room so they could get within two feet of each other. They screamed, barked , growled, howled,
and lundged until they were so exhausted, but never once did either back down.

Our budget will not allow us to get a personal trainer.
If by chance I hit the lottery , I'll call Caesar Milan to make a house call. However my Vet told me that you have to buy lottery tickets in order to win. Figures!


Please Please tell me someone has experienced this type of behavior and found a solution….

I am one tired Momma. PLEASE HELP!!

............ ..............
Pitty Pat.......... Jax ................ Sadie.....

[Maximo]

Sorry to hear you are having problems. Are all 3 neutered/spayed?

[Jax_Mom]

Sadie & Jax are both fixed.... I have not had Pitty Pat Spade because there are so many chances of something going wrong with any surgery. However, I have read there is a chance that having Pitty Pat spade will make her more docile.....

[Maximo]

I think that is the root of your problem. Even with 2 fixed, an unaltered female is likely going to cause behavior problems. There was someone else here recently with a very similar situation.

What are your concerns with surgery for Pitty Pat? Does she have health issues?

[theporkieyorkie]

It sounds like the 2 females are fighting over the pecking order of which is going to be the dominant female in the house.

5 weeks of age is pretty young for a pup to be separated from its mom and littermates. Both mom and the siblings would have taught your pup social skills.

It seems like a lot of people come on here with aggressive behavioral problems and a common link between them all is that they acquired their dogs before they were 12 weeks of age. There are many dogs that have left their mom before 12 weeks and done fine...but it seems like a lot of the aggressive/social issues seem to happen in dogs who were weaned too early.

Fixing your female could definitely help as she won't be pushing out all the hormones she now has and your other female may find her less threatening simply bc of that. Fixing her would be the easiest solution, if it fixes the problem. Otherwise, it's going to probably take a lot of work and a lot of patience.


Do u have a baby gate? U could get them used to each other by keeping them separated by a baby gate so they are safe, but it's not as secluded as keeping them in separate rooms. They can get used to each other through the gate where they can see and smell each other while still remaining safe. You can distract them and give them treats so they associate each other with good things. I wouldn't leave them unattended with the gate at first though...not until u know neither will climb it. You can gradually move them closer to each other by using treats to distract and reward them until they are eventually sitting right next to each other on opposite sides of the gate without growling or trying to fight. You ve got to do it gradually though and don't move closer until they are comfortable and not showing aggression at the distance they are at. Basically, you are trying to desensitize them to each other.



Btw....8 months old is right around that time where a female matures and has her first heat. I am guessing that in Sadie eyes, pattii was no longer an innocent little puppy, but instead she became a viable female.

[kdkjoshi]

Hi, I have one yorkie- Maggie age 6 and a rescue, 2 min pins- mom and daughter and a 100 lb lab. Maggie hates everyone else. We also play musical dogs as we cannot figure out how to resolve this. all are spayed. Maggie attacks everyone, sometimes without warning, some times we catch her stalking. The two min pins fight back, she has managed to grab each of them by throat and wouldn't let go. She even will attack the lab- a fixed male. He lifts his head and laughs at her, making Maggie even more determined to get him. We work hard at keeping them separate, although in the past 5 years we have had 4-5 slips where one of the min pins sneaks in without us noticing. No Solution comes to mind beyond separating them this way, or getting rid of them. Maggie wouldn't be accepted into rescue because of her aggression, so not a choice for us. We have also done the harness near each other and muzzles to see if we could get a solution. No such luck. Im very interested in any ideas, and wish I could find one.

[kjc]

Keep them in harnesses and leashed, except when kenneled or in separate rooms.

Walk them together, one leash for each dog, but you separate them. Keep walking faster and faster till they become distracted by other things, then you can slow the pace a bit, but if arguing starts up, speed up the pace again. If you need to, take one girl with the male, then the other with the male, then all three. DH can help. The point here is that dogs walking in a family unit will eventually begin to bond.

In the house, leashes on, sit and watch for signals to determine the aggressor. Look for a stare, ear position, lip curl, showing of teeth, etc. There will be a definite signal right before the dog moves, when you see this signal, YOU move first and interrupt the plan. When you get this down, and successfully intervene, this habit of fighting will begin to fade. They learn this behavior does not accomplish anything and will begin to forget it. It does take time.

You will have fights in the meantime. Once it escalates to a fight, discipline is useless. Pull the dogs apart, or back them off till they calm down. If they go right back at it, you didn't separate them for a long enough period of time. You may have to stand between them, blocking the view of the aggressing dog till she's focused on you.

Work with them on basic obedience, just simple sit, stay, down type stuff. The point here is to have them do good behaviors that you can reward them for, with praise and/or treats. Reward any behavior you want them to repeat, even tolerating each other, being quiet for 5 seconds, etc.

Discipline any behaviors you don't want to see. By discipline, I mean interrupt ('Ah, Ah') or whatever verbal cue you use that will get their attention, redirect their energy, and reward the 'calm and quiet'. Be consistent.

There is a rule in my house: Absolutely no fighting allowed. Mine know I will intervene each and every time. They also know I will protect them against any and all threats.

This is hard, intense work on your part. Your dogs will learn how to be together by being together, and will learn what is acceptable behavior through your training and praise. The more focused you are, the quicker this will turn around. I spent one weekend just watching my dogs, to get that signal down. After the first correction, I began to see improvement. After that, it got easier to catch them before anything got started, and the walks and training were added benefits for all of us.

[Jax_Mom]

Pity Pat has no health issues.... However I had a friend whose little Yorkie had no health issues and has had seizures since her spaying.... I feel spaying is an elective surgery and I cringe to think of Pitty Pat having a seizure. There is no chance of her ever getting pregnant....However, if this is what it is going to take for my kids to live peacefully together under the same roof, well then. I should have Pitty Pat spayed. If this were a 100% guarantee that there would be no more fighting.. I would not hesitate to have her spayed.... Short of having all teeth removed from both my girls...nothing is 100%. =(

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Jax_Mom

Pity Pat has no health issues.... However I had a friend whose little Yorkie had no health issues and has had seizures since her spaying.... I feel spaying is an elective surgery and I cringe to think of Pitty Pat having a seizure. There is no chance of her ever getting pregnant....However, if this is what it is going to take for my kids to live peacefully together under the same roof, well then. I should have Pitty Pat spayed. If this were a 100% guarantee that there would be no more fighting.. I would not hesitate to have her spayed.... Short of having all teeth removed from both my girls...nothing is 100%. =(

You are right that there is no guarantee that the fighting will stop.

I understand your concerns about spaying. There is always risk with surgery, but I believe your friend's Yorkie likely had/has some underlying health issue that contributed to the seizures. You can minimize the risk of surgery by having pre-op bloodwork done and consulting your vet about the anesthesia protocol.

Here is a link about best practices: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...-protocol.html

There are other reasons to spay females. Intact females are a high risk for pyometra, a deadly uterine infection.

[Kentuckyyorkie]

I have a male and female and both were fixed. I still have problems with the female fighting the male. She is so jealous of him! They have been together for 2 years. I have never separated them. I felt like the problem would never be corrected if separated. They may go weeks and then she tries to fight him. He is scared of her but fights back. I scold her by rolling her over on her back and holding her down. This has helped but hasn't been the complete answer. I feel like you and could never get rid of either of them. Hope you get it worked out.

[Jax_Mom]

The reason I took Pitty Pat at 5 weeks. Her momma and pappa were both AKC Yorkies, they were being given away by the owner, who's husband was suffering from PTSD as well as dementia. The couple who were taking Pity Pat's parents did not want the three puppies.... I had to take her then and there--- for $550.
I would have taken all three but I already had Jax & Sadie. Which were both rescues.

My two girls would fight to the death. Sadie has been injured by Pitty Pat several times. I don't understand why, but it is usually Sadie's ears that are wounded. When Pitty Pat Locks On she does not let go until we pinch her nose. I have even been bitten trying to get them apart. and once I do separate them....I have Pitty Pat in my hands frantically trying to get to Sadie and Sadie is jumping up trying to get at Pitty Pat... I feel as if I am in a tornado and can't get out. I love them so much and when I have one on one time with each girl ...they are so calm and sweet... Sadie has been through obedience training, she passed with flying colors. I train Pitty Pat myself.
She knows all the commands and goes through them with ease. I believe both kids go deaf when they are in a fight. What To Do? What To Do? ='(