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Old 03-09-2013, 10:12 AM   #1
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Default Sooo many opinions


Yesterday I took Wallee to daycare as I really want him to be sociable in all aspects of his life, plus wanted him to have a day of fun while I did spring cleaning. When I took him in he was his usual self, yapping and whining in excitement.
When I went to pick him up the trainer who owns the facility said he was a perfect puppy, playing with all sizes of dogs and also no barking or sounds like that at all. When they brought him out to me both her and the assistant were shocked to hear him start his excitement noise again. I have never greeted him with any excitement and always make sure I am in the house for a few minutes before I even acknowledge him. She said that it was "me"creating this in him. She has written a book, been training dogs for 30 years. She said she could teach me to stop that behaviour in 30 minutes. She also mentioned that the harness I had on him while great in his car seat is not good for walking a dog.
She also said she does not believe in treat training because the dogs are not trained to obey when they are only working for treats. She said she has much proven sucess with ppl who spent lots of money at other courses but only had success with her. Her price is fair, 150.00 for an unlimited amount of weekly trainihg. She said she trains owners not dogs. I gyess my biggerst fear is tge harness thing. I am paranoid after reading all the soft trachea things. Any opinions?
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:46 AM   #2
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What did she suggest for walking Wallee? Is it the type of harness or harnesses in general? From everything I have read on here, which im sure you have too, yorkies should not have a collar used for walking because of the trachea. IMO when it comes to something like that I would side with the years and years of specific yorkie experienc on here then a trainer who may be experienced but in a general way and not breed specific. Its so hard sometimes when we want to do the very best for our pups but have many differing opinions to chose from!
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:56 AM   #3
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She said harnesses in general. I notice the yorkies in the show rings use the show leads which I used on my cocker spaniel years ago, however being so new (and overprotective as my DH says) to this little breed, I have been following the advice of those on here. I do gave to admit most don't look at Wallee as a yorkie as he is a Briewer who is a big boy (15.5 inches long and 11 lbs) so maybe that is why ppl think he should wear a colar. Personally, I have never kept a collar on any dog I owned.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:02 AM   #4
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Yesterday I took Wallee to daycare as I really want him to be sociable in all aspects of his life, plus wanted him to have a day of fun while I did spring cleaning. When I took him in he was his usual self, yapping and whining in excitement.
When I went to pick him up the trainer who owns the facility said he was a perfect puppy, playing with all sizes of dogs and also no barking or sounds like that at all. When they brought him out to me both her and the assistant were shocked to hear him start his excitement noise again. I have never greeted him with any excitement and always make sure I am in the house for a few minutes before I even acknowledge him. She said that it was "me"creating this in him. She has written a book, been training dogs for 30 years. She said she could teach me to stop that behaviour in 30 minutes. She also mentioned that the harness I had on him while great in his car seat is not good for walking a dog.
She also said she does not believe in treat training because the dogs are not trained to obey when they are only working for treats. She said she has much proven sucess with ppl who spent lots of money at other courses but only had success with her. Her price is fair, 150.00 for an unlimited amount of weekly trainihg. She said she trains owners not dogs. I gyess my biggerst fear is tge harness thing. I am paranoid after reading all the soft trachea things. Any opinions?
Good Grief, it's a YORKIE, not a GSD or Rottie. All you need is a harness. You don't need neck control of a tiny creature!!!

And, really, what is wrong with excitement noise? Does it bother you? Is that something you want to train out of your dog? Watch out a bit, some trainers are control freaks. Invent problems.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:05 AM   #5
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Cindy I am so glad Wallee was a good boy at daycare I don't have any experience with training dogs but I really can't see a harness causing any issues. That's why confuses me what's the difference between a collar and a harness? Did she mention what breed or breed size she has experience training or is it all breeds? I think a harness is a must for a small breed.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:07 AM   #6
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Hi Jeannie. Thanks for your response. I really don't find he pulls much on our walks and I walk him once or twice a day. The only thing about the excitement noise is that he just doesn't stop. If I take him anywhere where he is excited, he will make that noise for hours..I don't mind that he is a very vocal dog, however I would like to be able to get him to turn it off after the initial excitement is over.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:12 AM   #7
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My dbf rolls his eyes at me sometimes because I am super protective of my girls. He gets annoyed (and says im far too over protective) when he is starting to sit on the couch and im yelling did you check for dog hey check for dogs. I told him imagining if you were 3.5 lbs and saw this big 200 lb blob moving on top of you...I tell him im being proactive with his checkbook with my caution...he sure wouldn't want to be shelling out a couple thousand for something that could have prevented.

I hope some breeders and showers respond as I have never thought about that show lead before and how that is or isn't the same as a collar. I have collars for both my girls but they haven't worn them much...and never w a lead attached. If we are going out of town ill put a collar on w tags so they can be ID'd.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:19 AM   #8
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Cindy I am so glad Wallee was a good boy at daycare I don't have any experience with training dogs but I really can't see a harness causing any issues. That's why confuses me what's the difference between a collar and a harness? Did she mention what breed or breed size she has experience training or is it all breeds? I think a harness is a must for a small breed.
She trains all breeds of dogs. I have seen a small yorkie there and on her website and when I did a tour she mentioned she currently owns 13 dogs. All different breeds. Hehe, she also told me at his age he should only be fed once a day as I said I give him blue buffalo canned when the cats get canned food close to dinner time and that he eats kibble from a treat ball later in the day. She practices holistic stuff with her dogs so I am sure she has a few views on things which I don't share.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:26 AM   #9
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Doggie Minder, dog daycare, boarding, training, grooming, pet first aid certificate courses, dog photograpy, raw diet course, durham, whitby, ajax, oshawa, pickering, mississauga, markham, newmarket, bowmanville, toronto

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Old 03-09-2013, 11:41 AM   #10
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I would take some very high value treats and say a word like "Focus" or "Watch me" and give him a treat. Charge that word/phrase with meaning. Every single time you say it, he gets a treat popped in his mouth. Work with him like that for a solid week. That is all you are going to do. After the first couple of days, mix up some kibble with the chicken or hot dog turkey bits treats and give the flavored kibble for treats, so your dog doesn't start getting tummy problems or gain weight but if you will do this for one month, that dog will know that "Watch me" is really good. Repeat 3 or 4 times a session, then rough-house play and outside to pee.

Now, take you hand that gets the treat and put it very near your eyes, point at your eyes and when he looks in your eyes, say "Watch me". When he looks at your eyes for even a second, instantly give the treat. Say "Good Watch me". Keep pointing at your eyes and saying "Watch me" and the instant he does, plop that treat in his mouth. Do nothing but this for a week. Several times a day for only 3 or 4 times a session, some rough play and outside to pee.

After he is performing the "Watch me" 100% of the time, has it down cold, try it once or twice when he is whining from excitement. If he's learned the "Watch me" focus trick well enough, he should stop whining and lock eyes with you, expecting a treat reward. Pop that thing in as fast as you can and gently praise - BUT not with a great deal of excitement, just genuine respect and love in your smiling eyes and touch. You don't want to excite an excited, whining dog.

If he didn't stop whining, go back to the "Watch me" focus training until he's got it stone cold and then try it again when he is whining. The instant he stops whining and locks eyes, reward. This is how you will teach him to stop whining and focus on you when he is in that state of mind. Keep working with him when he is whining to "Watch me", treat at the ready and instantly reward his eyes locked on yours and being quiet with that treat.

In time, you can draw that time of his locking eyes with you to a longer period of say 3 or 4 seconds before he gets the treat and in time, draw it out to a minute - and longer still. If he's started focusing and watching your eyes, not whining, he is now learning slowly but surely to control his whine impulse and to wait for something very rewarding - FOOD.

Food is a small dog's paycheck. Very few small dogs have the attention span or scope of cognitive ability to work for other than food rewards as big dogs do. Big dogs have many more areas of pride, accomplishment and work ethic as well as prey drive for balls, squeaky toys, old socks, etc., than do small dogs and appealing to those over food can really work well in training them - but not small dogs. Mostly they want that food paycheck. And why not? In time, you transition away from using it and they no longer need it to obey a command - they do it by rote. It will become a learned behavior but the food treat is a fine bridge to that end early on in the training of a certain behavior.

What you will do in time is draw out his focusing time on you until he is working quite hard looking at you, paying attention to you, and awaiting his paycheck and his mind won't even think of whining. He'll start thinking "look at mommie" when there are what used to be whine-inducing moments and will replace that behavior with one that nets him food rewards and gentle praise. In time, you will really only need kibble and eventually, he will just do it for praise, once it is a learned, brain-imprinted reaction to excitement. See how it all works to transition one unwanted behavior into another, wanted behavior. It will take a good 6 mos. to get there but it will be fun and rewarding and reshape your dog's behavior into that of looking at you in times of excitement. Keep the sessions fun, smile during them and don't scold if he loses focus or fails. Just say "uh oh" and turn your back on him for a full 60 second. In time, he will work to avoid that reaction, learn that "uh oh" is a fail and how to avoid it and that is by looking straight into your eyes for your praise.

Later, you can teach him to sit, lie down and "relax" for a treat in the same way. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching with food - that is how the circus trainers teach small dogs to do incredible tricks and then eventually, you no longer need the treat - the dog is just doing it because you are a team and he WANTS to please you. Dogs get more reward from pleasing us than anything but they have to learn that concept. At first they don't even know how cool they feel when they please us and smell and sense our happy, loving feelings but in time - they learn all about it and get hooked on it. That is when they stop needing treats and just do it because it is part of our bond with each other, which is all about making each other happy and sensing that about each other.

A squeaky toy can be given to a dog who is about to whine, when you see him amping up, grab out that squeaky and see if you can toss it and distract him. When you are at the vet or waiting somewhere and the dog is amping up, start having him focus, sit, lie down, shake hands, etc., to distract him from whining as you are still working with him on the "watch me". As long as he's busy and working, he won't whine so much. It's work - no doubt about it, but until the dog learns to focus on you for his reward, it can keep him distracted from excitement whining.
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Last edited by yorkietalkjilly; 03-09-2013 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:52 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly View Post
I would take some very high value treats and say a word like "Focus" or "Watch me" and give him a treat. Charge that word/phrase with meaning. Every single time you say it, he gets a treat popped in his mouth. Work with him like that for a solid week. That is all you are going to do. After the first couple of days, mix up some kibble with the chicken or hot dog turkey bits treats and give the flavored kibble for treats, so your dog doesn't start getting tummy problems or gain weight but if you will do this for one month, that dog will know that "Watch me" is really good. Repeat 3 or 4 times a session, then rough-house play and outside to pee.

Now, take you hand that gets the treat and put it very near your eyes, point at your eyes and when he looks in your eyes, say "Watch me". When he looks at your eyes for even a second, instantly give the treat. Say "Good Watch me". Keep pointing at your eyes and saying "Watch me" and the instant he does, plop that treat in his mouth. Do nothing but this for a week. Several times a day for only 3 or 4 times a session, some rough play and outside to pee.

After he is performing the "Watch me" 100% of the time, has it down cold, try it once or twice when he is whining from excitement. If he's learned the "Watch me" focus trick well enough, he should stop whining and lock eyes with you, expecting a treat reward. Pop that thing in as fast as you can and gently praise - BUT not with a great deal of excitement, just genuine respect and love in your smiling eyes and touch. You don't want to excite an excited, whining dog.

If he didn't stop whining, go back to the "Watch me" focus training until he's got it stone cold and then try it again when he is whining. The instant he stops whining and locks eyes, reward. This is how you will teach him to stop whining and focus on you when he is in that state of mind. Keep working with him when he is whining to "Watch me", treat at the ready and instantly reward his eyes locked on yours and being quiet with that treat.

In time, you can draw that time of his locking eyes with you to a longer period of say 3 or 4 seconds before he gets the treat and in time, draw it out to a minute - and longer still. If he's started focusing and watching your eyes, not whining, he is now learning slowly but surely to control his whine impulse and to wait for something very rewarding - FOOD.

Food is a small dog's paycheck. Very few small dogs have the attention span or scope of cognitive ability to work for other than food rewards as big dogs do. Big dogs have many more areas of pride, accomplishment and work ethic as well as prey drive for balls, squeaky toys, old socks, etc., than do small dogs and appealing to those over food can really work well in training them - but not small dogs. Mostly they want that food paycheck. And why not? In time, you transition away from using it and they no longer need it to obey a command - they do it by rote. It will become a learned behavior but the food treat is a fine bridge to that end early on in the training of a certain behavior.

What you will do in time is draw out his focusing time on you until he is working quite hard looking at you, paying attention to you, and awaiting his paycheck and his mind won't even think of whining. He'll start thinking "look at mommie" when there are what used to be whine-inducing moments and will replace that behavior with one that nets him food rewards and gentle praise. In time, you will really only need kibble and eventually, he will just do it for praise, once it is a learned, brain-imprinted reaction to excitement. See how it all works to transition one unwanted behavior into another, wanted behavior. It will take a good 6 mos. to get there but it will be fun and rewarding and reshape your dog's behavior into that of looking at you in times of excitement. Keep the sessions fun, smile during them and don't scold if he loses focus or fails. Just say "uh oh" and turn your back on him for a full 60 second. In time, he will work to avoid that reaction, learn that "uh oh" is a fail and how to avoid it and that is by looking straight into your eyes for your praise.

Later, you can teach him to sit, lie down and "relax" for a treat in the same way. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching with food - that is how the circus trainers teach small dogs to do incredible tricks and then eventually, you no longer need the treat - the dog is just doing it because you are a team and he WANTS to please you. Dogs get more reward from pleasing us than anything but they have to learn that concept. At first they don't even know how cool they feel when they please us and smell and sense our happy, loving feelings but in time - they learn all about it and get hooked on it. That is when they stop needing treats and just do it because it is part of our bond with each other, which is all about making each other happy and sensing that about each other.

A squeaky toy can be given to a dog who is about to whine, when you see him amping up, grab out that squeaky and see if you can toss it and distract him. When you are at the vet or waiting somewhere and the dog is amping up, start having him focus, sit, lie down, shake hands, etc., to distract him from whining as you are still working with him on the "watch me". As long as he's busy and working, he won't whine so much. It's work - no doubt about it, but until the dog learns to focus on you for his reward, it can keep him distracted from excitement whining.
Wow. Thanks so much for the wonderful advice Jeannie. Wallee did learn the watch command in puppy class and when I have treats and am training him he does I wonderfully. In fact at puppy class the trainer there said he had great focus on me. I never thought to apply this to his excitement. I have to start learning to have treats with me more often I think as he is very treat driven. Thank you for reminding me that I can overcome this without drastic formal training.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:01 PM   #12
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She trains all breeds of dogs. I have seen a small yorkie there and on her website and when I did a tour she mentioned she currently owns 13 dogs. All different breeds. Hehe, she also told me at his age he should only be fed once a day as I said I give him blue buffalo canned when the cats get canned food close to dinner time and that he eats kibble from a treat ball later in the day. She practices holistic stuff with her dogs so I am sure she has a few views on things which I don't share.
Wow 13 dogs! Georgie gets fed twice a day and a snack He is so spoiled so I am probably not the right person to offer advice LOL. I do think Jeanie has offered a lot of great advice I also have seen Yorkies that are very well behaved and trained using treats.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:01 PM   #13
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Wow. Thanks so much for the wonderful advice Jeannie. Wallee did learn the watch command in puppy class and when I have treats and am training him he does I wonderfully. In fact at puppy class the trainer there said he had great focus on me. I never thought to apply this to his excitement. I have to start learning to have treats with me more often I think as he is very treat driven. Thank you for reminding me that I can overcome this without drastic formal training.
Basic obedience teaches dogs impulse control and the basic concepts of how to do something to get something they want. It's basic reward for performance or pay for play. It's simply to just slowly lead them along from an unwanted behavior into a wanted behavior using a reward they will work to control themselves to receive. Find out what they work for - usually it is food - and you are always in control. I ALWAYS have treats with me in a plastic baggy when I'm out with Tibbe just in case. But eventually, they become so well behaved and in tune with you, they know what to do and watch you for direction. Usually only a look now at Tibbe is all it takes to settle him down. BUT WE DID A LOT OF TRAINING TO GET HERE. I am not shouting that but just stressing how much work it took to get a wild, screaming, biting, fighting, unsocialized, kennel-crazy, unhousebroken and frightened 9 month old dog to one that is calm, obedient, well-behaved while still being happy, healthy and full of life. It's all in the training and how rewarding it is inside for them to connect with you on that level of the mind. They begin to sense what you want and expect and want to do it right first, even before they are told! It's really magic when you get there.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:06 PM   #14
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And remember, the "Watch me" must be a quiet one to get the reward. Otherwise, the "uh oh"(not mean sounding or anything - just "uh oh"), no reward, turn your back and wait. He'll begin to see that whining during watching is a big fail, I get no treat, I hear "uh oh", mommie looks away for a long time and it's boring. He'll learn in time that when he looks in your eyes and doesn't whine, his mouth is flooded with lovely chicken or crispy kibble smelling like chicken, mommy is smiling and oozing pleasure and pride and happiness with him. The latter will become his drug of choice that he will work hard for.
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