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Old 12-20-2005, 10:39 PM   #1
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Default I really need help or I might Hulk out on Yoshi

I posted somethin similar a little while ago, but I wanted to put it here in more detail and more focused. Most of the time, Yoshi is ridiculously friendly and loving and wanting to follow everyone around everywhere and play. A few weeks ago Yoshi started biting. He will bite and he will bite hard and growl and snarl. He drew blood on both my hands the other day. He does this when he really doesn't want something to happen. For instance, if he finds something outside when i take him out to potty and i have to take it out of his mouth, before I could just go in his mouth and take it and say "drop it!" but now he will go into psycho aggression mode and REALLY bite me. hard. also if I am trying to clip his nails, he will flip out and bite. even just coming in from outside, if you try to wipe his feet with a towel he will go crazy and start biting at everything hard.

what i have been doing so far is not ever allowing him to put his teeth on my hands and saying "no bite!" everytime. when he gets harder with it i flip him and pin him onto his back and get right up in his face and into his eyes say "no bite!" and then stare him down or i might put him in his crate for 5 minutes. he will quickly go into submissive mode then. that is all well and good except that he is not learning at all and 5 minutes later he would do it again. when he stayed at my friends places (2 different houses) he bit both of them once or twice and almost drew blood when they were doing standard things w/ him. normally he is extreeeemely friendly and very good with everyone, mostly just chewing on fingers and that usual teething stuff when he gets excited. he loves all people and all dogs, even strangers.

i will not tolerate a biter, and it would break my heart if he was permanantly like this. i would believe you if you're experienced and you can tell me he will grow out of this, but if there is something i need to be doing that i am not, please don't tell me that he might just grow out of it if i dont do anything. all my friends have noticed that he bites so much more than when i got him at 8 weeks.

i am continuing to do the pinning and no bite formula, but he is now 3.5 months old and every day seems worse than the last in terms of his jaw strength combined with his increased willingness to really clamp down on hands when he doesn't like something. it is driving me crazy and i have to crate him sometimes for a little bit when he does this just to stop myself from screaming at him. i'm tryin my best. all your help is appreciated.

again, the chewing i can deal with and i know this is common. the actual biting is absolutely not ok, and this is what i need help with.

i thank you for all your help and i also congratulate you on reading what must be the world's longest post.
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Old 12-21-2005, 04:43 AM   #2
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Default hhhmmmm...

At three and a half months old, you would think that teething is the reason, but you seem to portray him as being aggressive and biting to harm, not to teethe. I am stumped as to why such a young puppy would even know to be mean spirited like that.

Have you consulted with your vet? There may be some painful reason why Yoshi is being so mouthy. There are many many threads here about biting. If you do a search on it, you may find some interesting and helpful answers. I am sure other folks would suggest consulting a dog behaviorist as well.

I wish you the best of luck with this problem, and wish I could be more helpful, but I have never had to personally deal with this. My pup bites me all the time in play, and we have been working on "NO bite", but she doesn't have a mean bone in her body so I can't help with the aggression.

Good luck!
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:05 AM   #3
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My male acted the same way for about 1 month at the age of 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 months then it just stoped,I did the samt things ,telling him no bite, then one day he forgot about biting and has never done it sence, I don't know why the change,but I don't care eather..he is a sweetheart now
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:18 AM   #4
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I don't know for sure. But in my experience with Logan at this age he was testing his bondaries. I would just be firm and he'll soon realize what's okay and what's not. Logan snapped at me (usually he would snap at the towell or clippers) only once. and we had it out. He had something he shouldn't and was hiding under my bed I went to shoo him out and he snapped at me. I got a hold of him and told him he will not snap at me and I bought everything in this house so if I want it it's mine. That was the last time he snapped at me. And it was pretty cute because for like a month after that everytime he wanted to play with something he would bring it me first and make sure it was okay. I really think he's just testing his bondaries he's trying to let you know he doesn't want those things to happen and if you give into him he will continue to bite and snarl because he realizes it works. I would wear some gloves say no bite and continue doing whatever it is you were doing until he sits there and takes it. Then if he sits there like a good boy I would give him a treat.
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:35 AM   #5
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Oh wow - I wish I could help - how old is he ? It really sounds like your doing everything right but I sure have no idea how you can put a stop to this - as I have no experience with this at all -

do you think he's just going thru a phase ? He sounds so friendly and happy I wonder if he just is testing your limits too or maybe he really IS teething bad ?

I do remember both my girls went thru a little stage where they didn't really seem to know how hard they were biting when they played... but they grew out of that quickly and I never had to take action - they just seemed to know when they were playing too hard playing and back off - no snarling or agression - I would yelp in pain if they bit my fingers... and they would feel guilty and stop

You must be really be getting worried and I hope you find some good answers - you sure are on the right site for help !
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:40 AM   #6
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Bite him back (lightly) It works..I've done this to Kelsey and she looks at me with disgust..like "mommy how could you?" and it works. At least for me it did. Now she only play bites but when I have enough that's all I have to do. Also you could try something like the bitter apple. Like when he bites go get it and rub a little in his mouth and he'll associate biting with the bitter apple and hopefully stop!
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:51 AM   #7
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thanks everyone for the replies. everything you said seems really helpful and i'll try them all out. if he's still doing this at the time of his next shots i'll ask my vet about it. thanks all!
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Old 12-21-2005, 05:58 AM   #8
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I don't know about biting back. I know it worked for kelsey and Nicole, but it could teach him that biting is acceptable. Think kids! The last thing you want is to teach a kid to bite. There is a period of time where they become monsters and out grow it. Again kinda like the doggie version of the terrible twos! Believe me both can test any adult to the ultimate extremes. I think --only think-- he's testing you...could last awhile. STAY CONSISTENT. This too shall pass.
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Old 12-21-2005, 06:34 AM   #9
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man i hope so. i woke up this morning and he has been great and playful as usual, and he has gone through his morning handling (i make a point of it to feel all over him a few times a day when he's eating and playing with things so he gets used to being touched all the time) with nothin besides his normal chewiness. he's never really had an issue with that stuff, so that's good. i guess we'll see when the next time is i have to get something out of his mouth or hold him still for somethin he doesn't want. i'm just gonna keep doin what i was doin for the most part. he knows i'm the boss but i think he wants to feel like he's big sometimes. i'll give u guys an update when something either good or bad happens. thanks again for all the help!

i feel much better about it now that i had a night to sleep on it and i've reset my patience meter for the day
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Old 12-21-2005, 06:47 AM   #10
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I thought I would cut and paste this from the humane society:

3 to 6 Months: Ranking Period
Puppy is most influenced by "playmates," which may now include those of other species.

Puppy begins to see and use ranking (dominance and submission) within the household (the puppy's "pack"), including humans.

Puppy begins teething (and associated chewing).

4 months: puppy experiences another fear stage.

6 to 18 Months: Adolescence
Puppy is most influenced by human and dog "pack" members.

7 to 9 months: puppy goes through a second chewing phase, part of exploring territory.

Puppy increases exploration of dominance, including challenging humans.

Here is the link from the breeders site i found from this forum actually:

http://yorkiepassion.com/puppystages.htm

Not tons of info....but i wanted to point out that it looks like this whole testing phase may last awhile.
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Old 12-21-2005, 06:49 AM   #11
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Omg Alpha-Roll Training Can Cause Serious Problems

Alpha-Roll Training Can Cause Serious Problems

I know this was on another link the other day and I remember thinking I too had read somewhere that this was no longer being used and was causing harm in a dogs training. This morning I did a search on the submission (Alpha-Roll) and I pulled this information up. Hope it helps.


http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...=1&SourceID=60
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Old 12-21-2005, 06:57 AM   #12
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Part of the problem probably lies in the fact that you got him at 8 weeks instead of 12 where he would have had time to learn bite behavior from his mom and litter mates. You can use the non-aggressive biting moments (friendly, playful chewing on fingers etc..) in training him. E-mail me for bite training sheets if you'd like...sylvanyorkies@yahoo.com
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Old 12-21-2005, 07:43 AM   #13
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wait....what is the alpha role issue to stay away from.....the article isn't clear....i want to know what to look out for....more info...please....tx
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:03 AM   #14
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lol there's so much conflicting information. i just talked to a vet tech not 10 minutes ago and he told me i should do the alpha roll. he also said to grab the scruff of his neck because that is what his mother would do.
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:04 AM   #15
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I found this article also and why it can pertain to any dog I think for the most part they are talking about large dogs and I certainly do not endorse euthanasia!

If you have a dominant dog, you need to take steps to establish yourself as the top dog. If your dog is dominant aggressive (showing signs of aggression; biting, growling, showing his teeth - combined with the above behaviors), a canine behaviorist is a valuable resource. He or she can help you determine a program, usually using the steps outlined below, that is SAFE for you to try with your dog. Some trainers (rarely behaviorists) recommend an Alpha Roll to help establish dominance. This involves swiftly rolling a dog on his back and holding him there until he submits by lying still and looking away. It may be accompanied by growling or shaking the dog. This maneuver is patterned after something that wolves and dogs sometimes do to each other while fighting. Brood bitches will also sometimes roll their puppies in the whelping box. A true alpha roll is an aggressive measure, and if a dog is prone to aggression, he will feel the need to defend himself. If this is the case - you could be seriously hurt! Dogs and wolves do not do this routinely - only in very specific instances - that usually involve aggression of some kind. Routinely alpha rolling your dog only invites mistrust and confusion at best, at worst - aggression. Slowly rolling a dog on his back and holding him there is NOT an alpha roll. It can be considered a training exercise, similar to a long down. (Note here from me*I certainly don't know what the difference is between the Alpha Roll and slowly rolling a dog but my take is you can't just pick out 1 thing out of a training portfolio and ignore the rest IMO).

***If you feel threatened or unsafe carrying out any of the behaviors described below, get professional help immediately. If you cannot resolve the problems with a behavior modification program alone or combined with medication, you may need to consider euthanasia. Serious cases i.e. dogs who have bitten someone or who are showing aggression, need direction beyond the scope of this article. In order to be certain of your own safety, please consult with a qualified proffessional.***


http://www.goldstockfund.org/Edu/Training-AlphaRoll.htm
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