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05-25-2010, 11:01 AM | #1 |
I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member | Teaching you puppy not to bite, or is this the Alpha Roll? I know lots of you are against the alpha roll, and even Cesar says it should only be used in specialized circumstances and than only on the advice of a professional trainer, so this is not to debate whether the alpha roll is good or bad. I'm posting this video because I've read people say they lay the dog on it's side, and get it to calm down when it bites and then resume playing, after the dog is calm. This video shows a demonstration of what I mean. I'm neither endorsing, nor criticizing it, I really don't know if this type of training has been shown to be bad. Is this considered the alpha roll? It's called the chill exercise. Training Your Puppy About Biting Video Please, this isn't to start controversy, I really want to have a clearer understanding.
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05-25-2010, 12:23 PM | #2 | |
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05-25-2010, 12:37 PM | #3 |
Phantom Queen Morrigan Donating Member | i don't think its an alpha roll but i do think its crap. LOL i watched most of that video and didn't think the pup learned anything. the woman held her down too long and repeated it a bunch of times after the dog was calm. that first time the dog stopped moving for 3 seconds she should have let her up. i think pups understand you getting up and stopping play better then this. no other dog is gonna stop play and hold the pup down for that long so i don't think the puppy will understand what is happening.
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05-25-2010, 12:48 PM | #4 |
I ♥ Armani & Chloe Donating Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upstate NY
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| I know they are calling it something different, but it basically looks like the same thing to be... you are forcing the dog over until it relaxes or submits.
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05-25-2010, 12:52 PM | #5 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North
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| Ok here is my take on this and no I am not looking for a fight either so just read all the way to the end and this is my take on that video. I notice I prefer to teach bite control. I want the dog to know that if their mouth hits my hand or anyones skin even as an accident and they do happen that they pull off the weight of their bite. ( again I am at work with no spell check so switch up letters if I get things spelt wrong.) I want bite inhabition on my dogs not no bite. a soft mouth. So what I am teaching that is different is not keep your mouth off it is if you mouth me it had better be light. Now why? Why is it different I want a dog to be wired that it is so ingrained that in a panic of a door slamming on their tail and it happened that they pull off as the go to bite. ( there has been a story around for years of a therapy dog with no bite inhabition on it just no bite that got its tail closed in a hospital sliding door and in pain it nailed its owner) So Even in pain this will be ingrained enough to have the dog pull back enough that the bite is less then a full force need stiches or major repairs. I want a down to be settle and I want them to learn it without me holding them down. I want them to learn to control themselves over time even if it takes a while rather then me be the force that makes them. Better learning. It allows the dog to use it own brain and grow trust that makes a better bond and it learns it can do without your outside forces to get its needs meet and also meet its own. You teach it to settle and give it the skills to do it themselves when you are not their to help them by force as you give them a life skill so that if for some reason they need to calm themselves they can. you give them an off switch. That understandable. I want our dogs skilled to self cope with the and trust us but be able without us to deal with the world in the right way without our need to have them under our thumb. So my dogs when they go away to a show still act well and know as I taught them to manage without me not that I need to be there all the time the have them behave or I will roll or tss or swat or poke them. They know that everyone around them will respond with gentle if they keep up the life skills. If one gets out of hand everyone stops and looks at what it the trigger removes that trigger and on they go...MY kids the furry ones know to ask for help if they can not manage without getting rammy and have their needs meet. It is ok for dogs not to be ok with thing and not to be perfect. Life skills are not for control and perfection they are for their and our safe keeping. That clip is teaching the dog not to ask for help, not to learn to control it self that all powerful big being will do it for me. Teaches a dog to stop thinking. The one that created dogs gave them a brain and I myself prefer them to learn that it is ok to use the brain that they have been given. where is it my right to think I know better and must control that which has a brain to learn to do it it self and be happier as it can use its brain and not be a shell of a dog not able to use its brain for fear of a roll or because someone took its use away. that is why. Rather simple really. JL
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05-25-2010, 01:06 PM | #6 |
I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member | Great replies, thank you everyone, and especially you, YorkieMother, that was a really great explaination. Second question involves Training Your Puppy to Cradle and Chill, Training Your Puppy About Biting Video - The Cradle and Chill Exercises. This shows the chill technique again, but not as punishment for anything, but as a way to get them to relax so you can clip their nails. Would this technique be bad to teach them or are you again teaching them by dominance?
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05-25-2010, 01:15 PM | #7 |
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| See my first post add it.... look at that puppy if you need to turn off the sound. What do you see???? See On talking terms with dogs. That puppy is not relaxed or ok with what is being done it. Again it is being told it is not ok to use is brain or let anyone know it is not comfortable with what is happening. You can teach everything there and have the dog lay still and think it is one stinking fun game. JL
__________________ "The truth about an animal is far more beautiful than all the myths woven about it." Konrad Loranz |
05-25-2010, 02:25 PM | #8 | ||
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Carolina
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ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory Debunking Dominance Theory | Karen Pryor Clickertraining | ||
05-25-2010, 02:30 PM | #9 |
I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member | Thanks to all who have answered, I think I have a clearer understanding now.
__________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals |
05-26-2010, 08:07 AM | #11 | |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North
Posts: 1,324
| Quote: Very Glad I am not longer one of the three/four lone voices saying this like we where not so long ago. Keep it up. JL
__________________ "The truth about an animal is far more beautiful than all the myths woven about it." Konrad Loranz | |
05-26-2010, 01:44 PM | #12 |
YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Hanford, CA
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| I did not agree with the video either , she held the pup down too long forcing him to lay still .
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