Invisible fence doesn't work anymore - YorkieTalk.com Forums

ihy · 03-22-2010, 04:16 AM

Finn (3-year-old Yorkie) no longer stays within the invisible fence. It's been about two years, but he has figured out that he can shoot through with only a short shock. We live near a horse farm, so he simply goes nuts, barking constantly and running through the countryside. He stands near the door and waits for someone to come in and bolts out.

Last week, he literally ran around and barked constantly from 8pm until about 3am...it was unreal. This is the most obstinant, stubborn, untrainable dog I've ever seen. Unfortunately, it's my mother-in-law's so I can't 'crate' him. Until recently, the only way to get him to come was for my mother-in-law to get in the car and start it up (she takes him everywhere she goes)...but now he won't even come for that.

Is there any way to slow a Yorkie down? At this point, I'm praying for animal control to pick him up. I certainly don't want to be the bad guy and take him to a humane society farm, but I can't take any more.

Help?

Ellie May · 03-22-2010, 11:21 AM

You'll have to spend a lot of time training and most likely bring a trainer in too. There really is no easy answer here. You can try the squirt bottle of water, pennies in a can, etc. but they don't work for all dogs.

The invisible fence has some flaws, 1) doesn't keep other animals out/these animals can easily hurt a Yorkie, 2) obviously doesn't keep Yorkie in and thus is a totally unsafe system, 3) you are using shocks to train which, in the opinion of a lot of us here, is not okay, 4) Yorkies shouldn't be outside unattended in most circumstances anyway. So between 8pm (or whenever it was) and 3am, he ran around the house barking? What was done to stop him?

TLC · 03-22-2010, 11:50 AM

hmmm....Are you for real???

How much does this Yorkie weigh??? Is he neutered??? Males that are left intact have "urges" to run for females in heat...

I think it is VERY unsafe for a Yorkie to be "allowed" to run free thru the fields/farms, etc...He could get seriously hurt, or killed or attacked by another animal...

I suggest that you put an expen around the door area, so he CANNOT slip thru when the door is open. Here is what I have, it opens up and you can "block off" areas (like the door)

Walmart.com: North State - Superyard XT Portable Playard & Gate: Gear

Now for when he should go outside. Can someone take him for a 20 min walk everyday ??? With him being in a harness and leash????

Or can you build an outside pen for him to play in when it is nice outside?

...again, if this is for real, he SHOULD NEVER be allowed to slip thru the door and run free outside...PLEASE use more caution

Britster · 03-22-2010, 12:16 PM

If ya live out in the country... I totally get where you're comin' from. Country folks are different when it comes to their dogs. We live on 3 acres with 90 acres of farmland behind us, including horses, pigs and chickens. My stepdad and mother had a dog (a cockapoo) that was always just a "farm dog" per say. She had free roam and was often let outside and she wouldn't wanna come back in... so they would just leave her outside when they went to dinner, etc. NOT my way of raising a dog and it was very aggravating, but it's just the way farmers do it. She was still very much a part of our family though... and she ended up getting hit by a car. It's just not a good situation when you're leaving your dog off leash unattended.

I agree with posters above ^^ that neutering (if he's not already) would help. Training!!! I can't say that enough. A trained dog is a happy dog. Just basic sits, stays, come and down would be super useful in your situation.

I allow Jackson some off leash time in our farmfields in the back, which are far from the road, but only during the day when I'm 100% watching him. He became a bit more daring after he turned a year old so he hasn't had the freedom. I've been working with him on a 50 foot training lead I got from eBay (It was, like, $15) but a simple rope from Lowe's or Home Depot would do. Keep him on a long leash so that he gets some room, but is still safe. With this leash, you can also practice the "come" command. Let him go out the full 50 feet and then say "come" and always give a good treat when they come back to you.

I do believe that invisible fencing has it's place and for some dogs, it may work. But often times w/ terriers... they see a rabbit and they're gone. They don't care what shocks them. And obviously, it's not working for you anymore.

Just remember... it's typically NOT the dog, but the HUMAN behind the dog. Clearly the dog has no boundaries, rules or limitations which needs to be enforced by the human. If you really want it to work, training, leadership and consistency will have to be put in place. If you really think you can't handle this dog, find a reputable rescue to take him... Animal Control may just put him to sleep.

Good luck.

ihy · 03-22-2010, 04:35 PM

He is neutered. He wasn't allowed outside all that time. He waited and bolted out when my daughter came in...He's diabolical!

There was no way for us to catch him. He's too fast, and won't come...even when offered steak!

I like the expen idea....sort of a double-lock system. I'll try that! Thanks!

I personally don't have the time to train him...but am not in a position to demand that he be gotten rid of....you can probably deduce what ihy stands for, but I don't want anything bad to happen to him.

Thanks again for the advice.

QuickSilver · 03-22-2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihy

Finn (3-year-old Yorkie) no longer stays within the invisible fence. It's been about two years, but he has figured out that he can shoot through with only a short shock. We live near a horse farm, so he simply goes nuts, barking constantly and running through the countryside. He stands near the door and waits for someone to come in and bolts out.

Last week, he literally ran around and barked constantly from 8pm until about 3am...it was unreal. This is the most obstinant, stubborn, untrainable dog I've ever seen. Unfortunately, it's my mother-in-law's so I can't 'crate' him. Until recently, the only way to get him to come was for my mother-in-law to get in the car and start it up (she takes him everywhere she goes)...but now he won't even come for that.

Is there any way to slow a Yorkie down? At this point, I'm praying for animal control to pick him up. I certainly don't want to be the bad guy and take him to a humane society farm, but I can't take any more.

Help?

If you give the dog up, please make sure that it goes to a rescue or no-kill shelter.

ihy · 03-23-2010, 05:10 AM

In answer to the training comment... I mentioned that I don't have time to train him, but I do try when I have a chance. I taught him to lay...but he only lays when he thinks there's a treat, and only when he's hungry. So, if he's not hungry, he doesn't lay.

He sits, turns around, stands...all for treats. I was once told that to prevent a dog from barking constantly, you have to teach him to "speak" for a treat. However, he just won't do it...looks at me blankly. Our beagle speaks on cue...even when no treat is out. I tried showing Finn how Mikey gets a treat for speaking....over and over again.

Also, how do you teach him to come? If we can get that one, our problems will be solved.

Thanks!

BlueBelle · 03-23-2010, 05:40 AM

Does IHY mean I HATE Yorkies? I sure hope that isn't the case. Clearly some dogs are more difficult than others. If you can't or don't want to deal with him, tell your mother in law, or who ever is the owner, how you feel. It's not right to have a dog forced onyou. It isn't fair to you OR the dog. Good luck to both or you.

ihy · 03-23-2010, 08:39 AM

Blue Belle gets the prize.... No I really don't hate Yorkies....they're cute. But this one....yikes! Everyone in the extended family, east and west coast, feels the same - that this dog is simply the most stubborn anyone has ever seen.

QuickSilver · 03-23-2010, 09:01 AM

So this dog has learned 3 or 4 tricks from a person who doesn't like him... and he is the most stubborn, untrainable dog you have ever seen? If that's the case, you've been obscenely lucky until now.

Of course the dog is only going to do tricks for food. That is how dogs are. After they've learned the trick, you can give them food at random intervals, and then eventually they will simply do it from habit. It's not a short process.

Also, lots of dogs have trouble with the Speak command. He probably doesn't understand what you want. Why do you assume that he is defying you?

To control barking, just try putting some pennies in a can, and shake them whenever he barks. I don't know if that will be effective since he is not your dog and he will need to be trained consistently, but most dogs learn to be quiet very quickly, so you may be able to do it in one visit.

I get the impression this dog's needs for training, attention, exercise and LOVE are not getting met. And for that matter, safety. What if a coyote comes INTO the yard, what good does the invisible fence do at that point?

Finally, as opposed to Speak, the Come command is VERY easy to teach. Why don't you teach him that one? There are lots of threads here on how to teach that one.

TLC · 03-23-2010, 09:03 AM

Here are a few really good Yorkie Rescues in your area:

Rescue Me Yorkie Rescue

Welcome to Save A Yorkie Rescue, Inc.

Yorkies Inc. Placement Service

Nancy1999 · 03-23-2010, 10:03 AM

Aversive training methods should only be used in conjunction with positive reinforcement. That's why methods such as shock collars or invisible fences don't work forever. Eventually the dog gets use to the discomfort, and does what he wants. I believe you'd be better off building a real fence. I think you are expecting way too much from this dog.

ihy · 03-23-2010, 12:17 PM

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll respond one-by-one.

Attention/Love: Grandma (his owner) talks to him all day, sleeps with him, takes him for drives. She's with him constantly. I pet him all the time and play fetch with him a lot. (btw, I only taught him to lay)

Exercise: He gets tons of exercise...even now that we have him on a run line, he runs back-n-forth....barking....a lot. And my daughter takes him for walks on the lead.

Come: I and everyone else have tried teaching him to come. He only comes when there is something in it for him. We all use either treats or petting. When he doesn't want to come, he'll start to come, and then run away....it's all a game. Like I've said, he has even stopped coming for the van when Grandma starts.

Defiance: Whenever anyone corrects him (with standard one-syllable commands such as "no"), he will poop somewhere strategic. My brother-in-law (in Oregon) once wouldn't let him out (they live in a suburban neighborhood), and Finn poop on his pillow (on his bed) 5 minutes later!

Barking: He doesn't bark much inside at all oddly enough, even when there are strange occurrences or sounds outside. It's when he is outside that he goes nuts.

The dog is smart, figures things out....and knows that he's got us licked!

QuickSilver · 03-23-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihy

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll respond one-by-one.

Attention/Love: Grandma (his owner) talks to him all day, sleeps with him, takes him for drives. She's with him constantly. I pet him all the time and play fetch with him a lot. (btw, I only taught him to lay)

Exercise: He gets tons of exercise...even now that we have him on a run line, he runs back-n-forth....barking....a lot. And my daughter takes him for walks on the lead.

Come: I and everyone else have tried teaching him to come. He only comes when there is something in it for him. We all use either treats or petting. When he doesn't want to come, he'll start to come, and then run away....it's all a game. Like I've said, he has even stopped coming for the van when Grandma starts.

Defiance: Whenever anyone corrects him (with standard one-syllable commands such as "no"), he will poop somewhere strategic. My brother-in-law (in Oregon) once wouldn't let him out (they live in a suburban neighborhood), and Finn poop on his pillow (on his bed) 5 minutes later!

Barking: He doesn't bark much inside at all oddly enough, even when there are strange occurrences or sounds outside. It's when he is outside that he goes nuts.

The dog is smart, figures things out....and knows that he's got us licked!

Yes, you must teach a dog to come to you. You do this with food. Some dogs are not food motivated, so you use praise and/or toys. However, most dogs respond to food, and from what you've said, this one does too. You teach them this command inside the house, with minimal distractions. You gradually move to the outside, and teach them greater self control until they come to you in all circumstances. You never call a dog to you for correction - returning to you should always be a positive experience. This was the first command I taught my dog, and several years later, I still treat him when he comes.

Dogs enjoy being chased, so you should not chase after him. Instead, turn around and run in the other direction so he will chase YOU.

Some dogs can never be trusted off leash, but it doesn't sound like this dog has had proper training, so you can't make that determination at this point.

As for pooping - maybe the dog wanted to go out so he could poop.

A professional trainer will tell you, it is NEVER the animal's fault. You are smarter, you are bigger, and you have opposable thumbs. It is the HUMAN's job to teach and manage the dog.

It really sounds like your family needs to read up on basic positive training for dogs. You are describing barking, potty training, and running around as if these are extraordinary behaviors never before seen in the canine world, when these are basic challenges dog owners work on every day. I'm surprised you said you have a beagle, as they are famously difficult to train to Come - they are slaves to their noses.

From what you've said, it sounds like this dog maybe does not get regular structure and discipline from his owner, and then there are a bunch of relatives who don't like him, and are not training him consistently either. Poor doggie.

ihy · 03-23-2010, 01:52 PM

Haha - I'm obviously not painting a very accurate picture.

The beagle was easy to train, using the same techniques we have tried with the Yorkie....and I've had success training other dogs using the same techniques. Trust me, we use positive reinforcement and simple commands such as "no" when discouraging unwanted behavior.

He's getting proper training, love, exercise, etc.....he's just obstinant. Perhaps dogs have disorders as humans do. Just frustrating.

I do like him - he's cute. Don't take my screen name to heart - I do have a sense of humor. If I didn't like him I wouldn't be registering on a forum where the experts are. For the most part, we've done everything you've suggested (except the pennies in the can, and the expen).

Perhaps you've just been lucky enough not to come across such a dog as Finn.

03-22-2010, 04:16 AM	#1
ihy YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7	Invisible fence doesn't work anymore Finn (3-year-old Yorkie) no longer stays within the invisible fence. It's been about two years, but he has figured out that he can shoot through with only a short shock. We live near a horse farm, so he simply goes nuts, barking constantly and running through the countryside. He stands near the door and waits for someone to come in and bolts out. Last week, he literally ran around and barked constantly from 8pm until about 3am...it was unreal. This is the most obstinant, stubborn, untrainable dog I've ever seen. Unfortunately, it's my mother-in-law's so I can't 'crate' him. Until recently, the only way to get him to come was for my mother-in-law to get in the car and start it up (she takes him everywhere she goes)...but now he won't even come for that. Is there any way to slow a Yorkie down? At this point, I'm praying for animal control to pick him up. I certainly don't want to be the bad guy and take him to a humane society farm, but I can't take any more. Help?

03-22-2010, 11:21 AM	#2
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	You'll have to spend a lot of time training and most likely bring a trainer in too. There really is no easy answer here. You can try the squirt bottle of water, pennies in a can, etc. but they don't work for all dogs. The invisible fence has some flaws, 1) doesn't keep other animals out/these animals can easily hurt a Yorkie, 2) obviously doesn't keep Yorkie in and thus is a totally unsafe system, 3) you are using shocks to train which, in the opinion of a lot of us here, is not okay, 4) Yorkies shouldn't be outside unattended in most circumstances anyway. So between 8pm (or whenever it was) and 3am, he ran around the house barking? What was done to stop him? __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

03-22-2010, 11:50 AM	#3
TLC Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 7,247	hmmm....Are you for real??? How much does this Yorkie weigh??? Is he neutered??? Males that are left intact have "urges" to run for females in heat... I think it is VERY unsafe for a Yorkie to be "allowed" to run free thru the fields/farms, etc...He could get seriously hurt, or killed or attacked by another animal... I suggest that you put an expen around the door area, so he CANNOT slip thru when the door is open. Here is what I have, it opens up and you can "block off" areas (like the door) Walmart.com: North State - Superyard XT Portable Playard & Gate: Gear Now for when he should go outside. Can someone take him for a 20 min walk everyday ??? With him being in a harness and leash???? Or can you build an outside pen for him to play in when it is nice outside? ...again, if this is for real, he SHOULD NEVER be allowed to slip thru the door and run free outside...PLEASE use more caution __________________ Adopt Donate Foster www.yorkie911rescue.com Last edited by TLC; 03-22-2010 at 11:52 AM.

03-22-2010, 12:16 PM	#4
Britster Action Jackson ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 17,814	If ya live out in the country... I totally get where you're comin' from. Country folks are different when it comes to their dogs. We live on 3 acres with 90 acres of farmland behind us, including horses, pigs and chickens. My stepdad and mother had a dog (a cockapoo) that was always just a "farm dog" per say. She had free roam and was often let outside and she wouldn't wanna come back in... so they would just leave her outside when they went to dinner, etc. NOT my way of raising a dog and it was very aggravating, but it's just the way farmers do it. She was still very much a part of our family though... and she ended up getting hit by a car. It's just not a good situation when you're leaving your dog off leash unattended. I agree with posters above ^^ that neutering (if he's not already) would help. Training!!! I can't say that enough. A trained dog is a happy dog. Just basic sits, stays, come and down would be super useful in your situation. I allow Jackson some off leash time in our farmfields in the back, which are far from the road, but only during the day when I'm 100% watching him. He became a bit more daring after he turned a year old so he hasn't had the freedom. I've been working with him on a 50 foot training lead I got from eBay (It was, like, $15) but a simple rope from Lowe's or Home Depot would do. Keep him on a long leash so that he gets some room, but is still safe. With this leash, you can also practice the "come" command. Let him go out the full 50 feet and then say "come" and always give a good treat when they come back to you. I do believe that invisible fencing has it's place and for some dogs, it may work. But often times w/ terriers... they see a rabbit and they're gone. They don't care what shocks them. And obviously, it's not working for you anymore. Just remember... it's typically NOT the dog, but the HUMAN behind the dog. Clearly the dog has no boundaries, rules or limitations which needs to be enforced by the human. If you really want it to work, training, leadership and consistency will have to be put in place. If you really think you can't handle this dog, find a reputable rescue to take him... Animal Control may just put him to sleep. Good luck. __________________ ~ Brit & Lights! Camera! Jackson! CGC ETD TKP ~ Follow Jackson on Instagram: https://instagram.com/jacksontheterrier

03-23-2010, 05:40 AM	#8
BlueBelle Donating YT Addict Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Alpharetta, GA, USA Posts: 1,190	?ihy? Does IHY mean I HATE Yorkies? I sure hope that isn't the case. Clearly some dogs are more difficult than others. If you can't or don't want to deal with him, tell your mother in law, or who ever is the owner, how you feel. It's not right to have a dog forced onyou. It isn't fair to you OR the dog. Good luck to both or you.

03-22-2010, 04:35 PM	#5
ihy YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7	He is neutered. He wasn't allowed outside all that time. He waited and bolted out when my daughter came in...He's diabolical! There was no way for us to catch him. He's too fast, and won't come...even when offered steak! I like the expen idea....sort of a double-lock system. I'll try that! Thanks! I personally don't have the time to train him...but am not in a position to demand that he be gotten rid of....you can probably deduce what ihy stands for, but I don't want anything bad to happen to him. Thanks again for the advice.

03-23-2010, 05:10 AM	#7
ihy YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7	In answer to the training comment... I mentioned that I don't have time to train him, but I do try when I have a chance. I taught him to lay...but he only lays when he thinks there's a treat, and only when he's hungry. So, if he's not hungry, he doesn't lay. He sits, turns around, stands...all for treats. I was once told that to prevent a dog from barking constantly, you have to teach him to "speak" for a treat. However, he just won't do it...looks at me blankly. Our beagle speaks on cue...even when no treat is out. I tried showing Finn how Mikey gets a treat for speaking....over and over again. Also, how do you teach him to come? If we can get that one, our problems will be solved. Thanks!

03-23-2010, 08:39 AM	#9
ihy YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7	Blue Belle gets the prize.... No I really don't hate Yorkies....they're cute. But this one....yikes! Everyone in the extended family, east and west coast, feels the same - that this dog is simply the most stubborn anyone has ever seen.

03-23-2010, 09:01 AM	#10
QuickSilver Thor's Human Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,929 Blog Entries: 31	So this dog has learned 3 or 4 tricks from a person who doesn't like him... and he is the most stubborn, untrainable dog you have ever seen? If that's the case, you've been obscenely lucky until now. Of course the dog is only going to do tricks for food. That is how dogs are. After they've learned the trick, you can give them food at random intervals, and then eventually they will simply do it from habit. It's not a short process. Also, lots of dogs have trouble with the Speak command. He probably doesn't understand what you want. Why do you assume that he is defying you? To control barking, just try putting some pennies in a can, and shake them whenever he barks. I don't know if that will be effective since he is not your dog and he will need to be trained consistently, but most dogs learn to be quiet very quickly, so you may be able to do it in one visit. I get the impression this dog's needs for training, attention, exercise and LOVE are not getting met. And for that matter, safety. What if a coyote comes INTO the yard, what good does the invisible fence do at that point? Finally, as opposed to Speak, the Come command is VERY easy to teach. Why don't you teach him that one? There are lots of threads here on how to teach that one. Last edited by QuickSilver; 03-23-2010 at 09:04 AM.

03-23-2010, 09:03 AM	#11
TLC Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 7,247	Here are a few really good Yorkie Rescues in your area: Rescue Me Yorkie Rescue Welcome to Save A Yorkie Rescue, Inc. Yorkies Inc. Placement Service __________________ Adopt Donate Foster www.yorkie911rescue.com

03-23-2010, 10:03 AM	#12
Nancy1999 I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 25,396 Blog Entries: 2	Aversive training methods should only be used in conjunction with positive reinforcement. That's why methods such as shock collars or invisible fences don't work forever. Eventually the dog gets use to the discomfort, and does what he wants. I believe you'd be better off building a real fence. I think you are expecting way too much from this dog. __________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals

03-23-2010, 12:17 PM	#13
ihy YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7	Thanks for all the feedback. I'll respond one-by-one. Attention/Love: Grandma (his owner) talks to him all day, sleeps with him, takes him for drives. She's with him constantly. I pet him all the time and play fetch with him a lot. (btw, I only taught him to lay) Exercise: He gets tons of exercise...even now that we have him on a run line, he runs back-n-forth....barking....a lot. And my daughter takes him for walks on the lead. Come: I and everyone else have tried teaching him to come. He only comes when there is something in it for him. We all use either treats or petting. When he doesn't want to come, he'll start to come, and then run away....it's all a game. Like I've said, he has even stopped coming for the van when Grandma starts. Defiance: Whenever anyone corrects him (with standard one-syllable commands such as "no"), he will poop somewhere strategic. My brother-in-law (in Oregon) once wouldn't let him out (they live in a suburban neighborhood), and Finn poop on his pillow (on his bed) 5 minutes later! Barking: He doesn't bark much inside at all oddly enough, even when there are strange occurrences or sounds outside. It's when he is outside that he goes nuts. The dog is smart, figures things out....and knows that he's got us licked!

03-23-2010, 01:52 PM	#15
ihy YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 7	Haha - I'm obviously not painting a very accurate picture. The beagle was easy to train, using the same techniques we have tried with the Yorkie....and I've had success training other dogs using the same techniques. Trust me, we use positive reinforcement and simple commands such as "no" when discouraging unwanted behavior. He's getting proper training, love, exercise, etc.....he's just obstinant. Perhaps dogs have disorders as humans do. Just frustrating. I do like him - he's cute. Don't take my screen name to heart - I do have a sense of humor. If I didn't like him I wouldn't be registering on a forum where the experts are. For the most part, we've done everything you've suggested (except the pennies in the can, and the expen). Perhaps you've just been lucky enough not to come across such a dog as Finn.