Am I doing the right thing? "FU" or "I'm Sorry"? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

YankeeBernie · 05-02-2008, 05:56 AM

I have a small crate which I have never used for Bernie (he has a separate travel crate and sleeping area). I recently decided to use the crate as a punishment area/place for "time out". I used it for the first time last night when Bernie spilled his water dish by picking up his place-mat. I immediately yelled "No!" and placed him into the crate for ~15-20 minutes. He cried a little but was basically quiet for most of his stay. When I let him out I wasn't all lovey with him -I went back to the couch. Bernie walked around the apartment quietly and then came back to the couch directly in front of me and peed on the floor! I yelled "No!" again and placed him on his wee-wee pad.

I don't know if he was saying "FU" for locking me up or "I'm sorry - here have some submissive pee." I'm confused now - and I think the dog is too. Any thoughts, comments, etc? Thanks

Sunnie · 05-02-2008, 06:04 AM

just my opinion, but I don't think you should ever use a crate for punishment. The crate should be the one area they feel safe and secure. I am sure he is confused.. sometimes it is hard to remember that these little sweethearts ARE dogs first, NOT real kids, as much as we like to think they understand as well as humans, they don't. They can be taught and they can understand a WHOLE lot, but we do have to try to not confused them

mainegirl · 05-02-2008, 06:26 AM

I agree with Sunnie. My Ozzy always tips his bowls over so I bought the LE Bistro dog waterer and that is to heavy for him to move. My theory is to try and set him up for success. Since we are having some "pee issues" I also walk with him to his pad every few hours and encourage him to pee. When he does it's a big party with Honey Nut Cheerios all around!!

When I do catch him in the act I say bad dog and move him to the pad and say go potty. It's just patience and consistency..but it sure can be trying at times

rebecca127 · 05-02-2008, 06:31 AM

I am sorry but why would you start NOW to punish a dog in a crate, I thought that was suppossed to be their safe place...? Just give a firm NO and praise when they do something right. And like Maine said since I brought Abby home I have had the Le Bistro dog waterer so there is no tipping over of any kind.

House · 05-02-2008, 06:37 AM

I've done a lot of reading in the past few weeks since I got my little girl and am trying to properly train her. From what I've read, the consensus seems to be if you punish your dog for peeing in the house, he'll just learn to hide it from you and do it when/where you can't see him. He does not know it's wrong to pee on the carpet, just that it's wrong to pee on the carpet in front of you.

I used to get really frustrated and angry with Harley when she peed on the carpet, but now I am just to the point where I have to let it go. She mostly goes on her pee pads but if she goes on the carpet, it's because I was not watching her carefully enough.

As for the water bowl, I would just get a heavier one or not put it on a mat. Harley's water bowl is directly on the bathroom floor and the only time it gets tipped is if she is jumping around. I don't get on to her or anything though because she's not tipping it on purpose.

I don't know if your dog is different though. If he is doing it for fun, I would get a heavy bowl (maybe ceramic).

Mom to Hot Rod · 05-02-2008, 06:39 AM

I agree with the above posters, a crate should be a safe place for them. As far as peeing, you need to keep an eye on him and get him to the pee pad as soon as you can. We gave treats and praise when they went on pad. Good luck.

YankeeBernie · 05-02-2008, 06:46 AM

I should clarify a couple of things...

Bernie is very good when it comes to peeing on his wee wee pad. He is also pretty good with the poo-poo.

I decided to use the crate for other types of misbehaviors. It was basically punishment for lifting his place-mat and running off with it with the water dish still on it. I mentioned the peeing on the floor because I found it odd that he would do that (again, he's never punished or would be punished for pee or poo accidents and he's good with that). I was unsure as to his intention for peeing in front of me after I let him out of his 15 minute time-out.

House · 05-02-2008, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeeBernie

I should clarify a couple of things...

Bernie is very good when it comes to peeing on his wee wee pad. He is also pretty good with the poo-poo.

I decided to use the crate for other types of misbehaviors. It was basically punishment for lifting his place-mat and running off with it with the water dish still on it. I mentioned the peeing on the floor because I found it odd that he would do that (again, he's never punished or would be punished for pee or poo accidents and he's good with that). I was unsure as to his intention for peeing in front of me after I let him out of his 15 minute time-out.

In that case, I would probably just get a heavier bowl so he can't lift the mat.

They say when the dog is chewing on something you don't want him to (like a table or a place mat), you should replace it with a chew toy so they learn "appropriate" chewing behaviors. Maybe every time you catch him with the mat, take it from him and give him a toy instead?

And if he's good about using the pee pads, maybe he just did it to get your attention. You said after you let him out, you went back to the couch and kind of ignored him right? Maybe he was just trying to say, "Hey, look at me down here."

Yeah, there needs to be a resident "dog whisperer" on this board.

rrosenberry · 05-02-2008, 06:52 AM

If you want to use the crate in the future.. for when you leave the house, you can not use it as ANY kind of punishment..or your next thread will be titled- My dog hates his crate and won't go in!

Erin · 05-02-2008, 06:59 AM

I use crates for time out and my dogs still like their crates. It's just that you can't think of time out as punishment, but rather "you don't get to hang out with me right now, chill in your crate for a while" then when they settle down they can come out. Loki gets time outs when he constantly scratches at the door even though he has been out 18 times and gone for a walk, or for barking. I put him in there before *I* go crazy. Sammy gets time outs for general craziness and for being mouthy. I don't know if she quite gets it. Loki totally knows that the crate is a "warning" and his behavior improves significantly after a time out.

Also mine get a treat for going in their crate. Loki will run to his crate from anywhere in the house on command because he knows it means he gets a cookie.

cdawnfine · 05-02-2008, 07:43 AM

The pee could just have been cause he was nervous, he has never experienced that before, as for the punishment my sister had a trainer that said when they do something bad you should pick them up and hold them under your arm but their head should be towards the rear so they cant see what is going on and they cant see you hold them in that position for about 2 min. It worked for my sister with her dog.

YankeeBernie · 05-02-2008, 08:00 AM

Thanks for the responses folks. I hope I don't seem heartless b/c I LOVE my dog and he gets rained on with kisses and hugs believe me. I'm happy to see that time outs can work in some cases. When I go off to work he stays in the big living room via little gates so I don't really need a crate. For the rare times when I need him confined I have a slightly bigger cage that quickly assembles. I rarely need to use that cage however.

In any case, I think I will follow some of the advice here and not have him think of the crate as place of punishment -rather a place to chill out for a little while (e.g. putting snacks in there every once in a while). I'm still a little perplexed at the pee - still can't be sure if it was a nervous submissive pee or "take that!"

Thanks again everyone. In the meantime I'll get a sturdier bowl (maybe also remove the mat). Don't yet know if I'll stick with this 'time out' method.

PrincessDiana · 05-04-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeeBernie

Thanks for the responses folks. I hope I don't seem heartless b/c I LOVE my dog and he gets rained on with kisses and hugs believe me. I'm happy to see that time outs can work in some cases. When I go off to work he stays in the big living room via little gates so I don't really need a crate. For the rare times when I need him confined I have a slightly bigger cage that quickly assembles. I rarely need to use that cage however.

In any case, I think I will follow some of the advice here and not have him think of the crate as place of punishment -rather a place to chill out for a little while (e.g. putting snacks in there every once in a while). I'm still a little perplexed at the pee - still can't be sure if it was a nervous submissive pee or "take that!"

Thanks again everyone. In the meantime I'll get a sturdier bowl (maybe also remove the mat). Don't yet know if I'll stick with this 'time out' method.

Dogs are smart, but they aren't humans. I don't think that dogs have tbe ability or desire to be vindictive. Your puppy (I actually don't know how old Bernie is) probably just had an accident. Franklin has been pretty much trained since the day we got him - he has been accident free for months now, just peed on my carpet this morning. Dogs have accidents, just like humans make mistakes. I wouldn't read into this too much.

SANDYSAND · 05-04-2008, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeeBernie

I have a small crate which I have never used for Bernie (he has a separate travel crate and sleeping area). I recently decided to use the crate as a punishment area/place for "time out". I used it for the first time last night when Bernie spilled his water dish by picking up his place-mat. I immediately yelled "No!" and placed him into the crate for ~15-20 minutes. He cried a little but was basically quiet for most of his stay. When I let him out I wasn't all lovey with him -I went back to the couch. Bernie walked around the apartment quietly and then came back to the couch directly in front of me and peed on the floor! I yelled "No!" again and placed him on his wee-wee pad.

I don't know if he was saying "FU" for locking me up or "I'm sorry - here have some submissive pee." I'm confused now - and I think the dog is too. Any thoughts, comments, etc? Thanks

Wrong! Please do not do that again. In addition, all it takes is less than a minute for them to forget...20 minutes was way too long. I dont normally use punishment and the most I done is put the gate up and not allow them with me but I do go back in less than 5 minutes because they forget too quickly. Hope you get lots of responses.

Gracie2006 · 05-04-2008, 05:28 PM

IMO a crate should never be used for punishment.

05-02-2008, 05:56 AM	#1
YankeeBernie Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bklyn, New Yorkie Posts: 56	Am I doing the right thing? "FU" or "I'm Sorry"? I have a small crate which I have never used for Bernie (he has a separate travel crate and sleeping area). I recently decided to use the crate as a punishment area/place for "time out". I used it for the first time last night when Bernie spilled his water dish by picking up his place-mat. I immediately yelled "No!" and placed him into the crate for ~15-20 minutes. He cried a little but was basically quiet for most of his stay. When I let him out I wasn't all lovey with him -I went back to the couch. Bernie walked around the apartment quietly and then came back to the couch directly in front of me and peed on the floor! I yelled "No!" again and placed him on his wee-wee pad. I don't know if he was saying "FU" for locking me up or "I'm sorry - here have some submissive pee." I'm confused now - and I think the dog is too. Any thoughts, comments, etc? Thanks __________________ It is scarcely possible to doubt that the love of man has become instinctive in the dog. -Darwin

05-02-2008, 06:04 AM	#2
Sunnie Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: So. California Posts: 4,057	just my opinion, but I don't think you should ever use a crate for punishment. The crate should be the one area they feel safe and secure. I am sure he is confused.. sometimes it is hard to remember that these little sweethearts ARE dogs first, NOT real kids, as much as we like to think they understand as well as humans, they don't. They can be taught and they can understand a WHOLE lot, but we do have to try to not confused them __________________ Sonya, Owned by Ladybug, Tilly, Sunshine, Beamer, Rainbow, Sonny and Righteous RIP Sunnie (11/12/2003-7/31/2009)

05-02-2008, 06:26 AM	#3
mainegirl Donating YT Addict Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maine Posts: 513 Blog Entries: 1	I agree with Sunnie. My Ozzy always tips his bowls over so I bought the LE Bistro dog waterer and that is to heavy for him to move. My theory is to try and set him up for success. Since we are having some "pee issues" I also walk with him to his pad every few hours and encourage him to pee. When he does it's a big party with Honey Nut Cheerios all around!! When I do catch him in the act I say bad dog and move him to the pad and say go potty. It's just patience and consistency..but it sure can be trying at times __________________ Member of the Little Gentleman's Club

05-02-2008, 06:31 AM	#4
rebecca127 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Jackson Heights, NY Posts: 226	I am sorry but why would you start NOW to punish a dog in a crate, I thought that was suppossed to be their safe place...? Just give a firm NO and praise when they do something right. And like Maine said since I brought Abby home I have had the Le Bistro dog waterer so there is no tipping over of any kind. __________________ I <3 Abby

05-02-2008, 06:39 AM	#6
Mom to Hot Rod Donating YT 5000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: MD Posts: 10,908	I agree with the above posters, a crate should be a safe place for them. As far as peeing, you need to keep an eye on him and get him to the pee pad as soon as you can. We gave treats and praise when they went on pad. Good luck. __________________ www.kissecollar.com Soft Cone Collars for Post-surgery and much more! 10% (non-food) - Discount code YT10

05-02-2008, 06:37 AM	#5
House Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 45	I've done a lot of reading in the past few weeks since I got my little girl and am trying to properly train her. From what I've read, the consensus seems to be if you punish your dog for peeing in the house, he'll just learn to hide it from you and do it when/where you can't see him. He does not know it's wrong to pee on the carpet, just that it's wrong to pee on the carpet in front of you. I used to get really frustrated and angry with Harley when she peed on the carpet, but now I am just to the point where I have to let it go. She mostly goes on her pee pads but if she goes on the carpet, it's because I was not watching her carefully enough. As for the water bowl, I would just get a heavier one or not put it on a mat. Harley's water bowl is directly on the bathroom floor and the only time it gets tipped is if she is jumping around. I don't get on to her or anything though because she's not tipping it on purpose. I don't know if your dog is different though. If he is doing it for fun, I would get a heavy bowl (maybe ceramic).

05-02-2008, 06:46 AM	#7
YankeeBernie Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bklyn, New Yorkie Posts: 56	I should clarify a couple of things... Bernie is very good when it comes to peeing on his wee wee pad. He is also pretty good with the poo-poo. I decided to use the crate for other types of misbehaviors. It was basically punishment for lifting his place-mat and running off with it with the water dish still on it. I mentioned the peeing on the floor because I found it odd that he would do that (again, he's never punished or would be punished for pee or poo accidents and he's good with that). I was unsure as to his intention for peeing in front of me after I let him out of his 15 minute time-out. __________________ It is scarcely possible to doubt that the love of man has become instinctive in the dog. -Darwin

05-02-2008, 06:52 AM	#9
rrosenberry & Bailey & Bella Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,164	If you want to use the crate in the future.. for when you leave the house, you can not use it as ANY kind of punishment..or your next thread will be titled- My dog hates his crate and won't go in! __________________ Rhonda, Bailey, Josie and my angel Bella Rue' "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." ~Anatole France~

05-02-2008, 06:59 AM	#10
Erin Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs Posts: 3,306	I use crates for time out and my dogs still like their crates. It's just that you can't think of time out as punishment, but rather "you don't get to hang out with me right now, chill in your crate for a while" then when they settle down they can come out. Loki gets time outs when he constantly scratches at the door even though he has been out 18 times and gone for a walk, or for barking. I put him in there before I go crazy. Sammy gets time outs for general craziness and for being mouthy. I don't know if she quite gets it. Loki totally knows that the crate is a "warning" and his behavior improves significantly after a time out. Also mine get a treat for going in their crate. Loki will run to his crate from anywhere in the house on command because he knows it means he gets a cookie. __________________ Erin, Sammy & Loki Sewing patterns and tutorials @ www.dogundermydesk.com

05-02-2008, 07:43 AM	#11
cdawnfine Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: nj Posts: 1,256	The pee could just have been cause he was nervous, he has never experienced that before, as for the punishment my sister had a trainer that said when they do something bad you should pick them up and hold them under your arm but their head should be towards the rear so they cant see what is going on and they cant see you hold them in that position for about 2 min. It worked for my sister with her dog.

05-02-2008, 08:00 AM	#12
YankeeBernie Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bklyn, New Yorkie Posts: 56	Thanks for the responses folks. I hope I don't seem heartless b/c I LOVE my dog and he gets rained on with kisses and hugs believe me. I'm happy to see that time outs can work in some cases. When I go off to work he stays in the big living room via little gates so I don't really need a crate. For the rare times when I need him confined I have a slightly bigger cage that quickly assembles. I rarely need to use that cage however. In any case, I think I will follow some of the advice here and not have him think of the crate as place of punishment -rather a place to chill out for a little while (e.g. putting snacks in there every once in a while). I'm still a little perplexed at the pee - still can't be sure if it was a nervous submissive pee or "take that!" Thanks again everyone. In the meantime I'll get a sturdier bowl (maybe also remove the mat). Don't yet know if I'll stick with this 'time out' method. __________________ It is scarcely possible to doubt that the love of man has become instinctive in the dog. -Darwin

05-04-2008, 05:28 PM	#15
Gracie2006 Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sequim, Wa Posts: 4,541	IMO a crate should never be used for punishment. __________________ Gracie loves Bailey. Holly loves Tucker. Proud member of the YT Gracie Girls.