a little info for people so against mixing - YorkieTalk.com Forums

tammy8833 · 05-08-2007, 05:36 PM

This is probably not going to take well but im really upset with people stating things about mixing breed for example about them being pathetic and ruining the standard and one person even told me digusting, and a true breeder should know the history of the breed and that EVERY breed has been mixed with other breeds to get that desired dog here is the info for several places including akc.org
AKC.ORG

The Yorkshire Terrier traces to the Waterside Terrier, a small longish-coated dog, bluish-gray in color, weighing between 6 and 20 pounds (most commonly 10 pounds). The Waterside Terrier was a breed formed by the crossing of the old rough-coated Black-and-Tan English Terrier (common in the Manchester area) and the Paisley and Clydesdale Terriers. It was brought to Yorkshire by weavers who migrated from Scotland to England in the mid-19th century.

The Yorkshire Terrier made its first appearance at a bench show in England in 1861 as a "broken-haired Scotch Terrier". It became known as a Yorkshire Terrier in 1870 when, after the Westmoreland show, Angus Sutherland reported in The Field magazine that "they ought no longer be called Scotch Terriers, but Yorkshire Terriers for having been so improved there."

History

The Yorkshire Terrier also called Yorkie had its origin in the late 1800s early 1900s. It is not knows when exactly. The Yorkie was derived from mainly the Clydesdale Terrier, The Black and Tan English Toy Terrier and the Maltese.
The Yorkie's name indicates were it originated from, namely Yorkshire in England or surroundings. The Yorkie's main function was to control the rat population in the coalmines and cotton mills. The Yorkie was much bigger at the time than we know a Yorkie today.
The breed is only 100 years old or so, but its origins are not entirely certain - probably because the working men of north England, who developed the Yorkshire Terrier for catching the terrible rats that infested the mine shafts and as a hunting dog that could penetrate into badger and fox burrows, avoided divulging the secret of their success to those who might have cashed in on a lucrative side line. However, it seems likely that Scotsmen seeking work in the woolen mills of Yorkshire brought with them various types of terrier, including the Skye and the now extinct Clydesdale. These were then crossed with local types, such as the long- haired Leeds Terrier. The Maltese, Black & Tan Manchester, and Dandie Dinmont Terriers may also have contributed blood lines. At first, the Yorkie was a much bigger animal than the one we see today, but by selectively breeding the smallest individuals, the dog was gradually miniaturized over the years. They were made into a fashion dog. Women carried these little dogs in their bags and under their arms. The first Yorkshire, with the characteristics demanded by its standard today, appeared in a do

every great breed begins as a mix! its a TRUE and FACTURAL thing. and to say that mixing is ruining can all together be incorrect. one day these mixed breeds may be registered with akc. so before you start raving about how prestine the purebred yorkie is think how you got a yorkie... there was more than two breeds involved wow that sounds like a mungrel to me.

This is not to start an agument thought it may but its to open the eyes of people who look down on the persons who may be trying to invent that new breed and do it correctly. im not stating that i am but there are people who work extremely hard to perfect their yorkie-poos and morkies, and so forth

my2boyz · 05-08-2007, 05:56 PM

That's all wonderful information that I don't think anyone has disputed, we know our Yorkies 'came from' something and we don't have a problem with that. However, the problem lies in the breeders who continuously mix and breed their dogs with no regard just to try and come up with the next hot designer dog so they can charge the unsuspecting public a ridiculous amount of money and make their fortune. We all know these 'designer dogs' are sitting in shelters all over the country...puppies and adults...and if someone wants a mix that's where they should start their search. I have nothing against mutts or mixes or whatever you want to call them but I do have a problem with the so called breeders. If they're only trying to come up with the next new breed why do they charge so much for a puppy when the mix isn't perfected and registered? (Because it's all about the money!) Shouldn't that high of a price be reserved for the breed when it is perfected and registered?

tammy8833 · 05-08-2007, 06:04 PM

well..i dont agree with puppy mills breeding and breeding mixes into mixes..but all breeds come from something and some of these breeds are desired and people ARE willing to pay from them. people wouldnt breed them if peope wouldnt buy them..right? and where i live there is no small breeds in shelters here. if they werent desired by people, breeders wouldnt be breeding them so often and charging so much. some breeders get crazy money for these dogs and if its me..and i spend $$$ on a dog its not going to a shelter because so much money might be have involved.

Lorraine · 05-08-2007, 06:14 PM

It takes dedication, dog fanciers that have committed their effort for any of the purebred breeds to be developed.
They did not come about by taking a maltese breeding to a Yorkie calling it a yorkese or whatever the heck you want to call it.
It took many years, keeping records and all wtih a certain dog in mind that when it was finally produced you could breed it and it would breed true over time and generations.
You don't get dogs that breed true when you mix two or more breeds and get puppies and breed those, call it whatever designer breed comes to mind and sell puppies at some inflated price as rare.
Get a book about the various breeds that breeders have developed and you will find how it was done.
Breeding because they sell is not really the best reason in the world to breed.

my2boyz · 05-08-2007, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tammy8833

and where i live there is no small breeds in shelters here.

I just checked petfinder.com and found several small breeds/mixes in the shelters in VA.

Quote:

and if its me..and i spend $$$ on a dog its not going to a shelter because so much money might be have involved.

That's great that you would never send a dog to a shelter because 'so much money might be involved'. By that I believe you mean the amount you paid for the dog? I only wish more people wound put the money aside and not send a pet to a shelter because they love it and have decided to make a lifetime committment to keeping it. If you take a look through the shelters you'll see that money isn't always enough for someone to keep their pet...there are many, many expensive pure breeds sitting in shelters...that's why we have rescue groups.

Yorkieluv · 05-08-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine

It takes dedication, dog fanciers that have committed their effort for any of the purebred breeds to be developed.
They did not come about by taking a maltese breeding to a Yorkie calling it a yorkese or whatever the heck you want to call it.
It took many years, keeping records and all wtih a certain dog in mind that when it was finally produced you could breed it and it would breed true over time and generations.
You don't get dogs that breed true when you mix two or more breeds and get puppies and breed those, call it whatever designer breed comes to mind and sell puppies at some inflated price as rare.
Get a book about the various breeds that breeders have developed and you will find how it was done.
Breeding because they sell is not really the best reason in the world to breed.

Well said

Lorraine · 05-08-2007, 06:49 PM

1. Can't get it housebroken and don't have time for it anyway.
2. New baby and don't have time for it.
3. Had him for a week and it isnt' working out; way more work than I thought.
4. Barks
5. Got a new boyfriend (or girlfriend) dog has to go because we wont' have time for it.
6. Owner died no one in the family wants it.
7. Developed allergies.
The above were all Yorkies that I helped the owners find homes for or a rescue group that could help, and in some cases took in myself and kept because they were too old, no one wanted them. The rest I was able to find a new home. Most paid a good price for these dogs when they bought them as puppies.
Price is not going to guarantee a good home or a forever home.
That's where the dedication of breeders comes in where the breeder is willing to take back any dog or puppy they sell no matter the reason it comes back.
I don't believe I know of any mixed breed breeder willing to do that.
I do know not all purebred show breeders don't either but many, including me, do. And I end up rescuing dogs I never sold in the first place.
About 95% of my mobile dog grooming clients are mixed small breeds. Many have health problems from allergies to knee problems and very few have a proper scissor or even a reverse scissor bite. Instead they are grossly undershot with the bottom jaw jutting forward from the top jaw by as much as just shy of 1/2 inch. The coats in coated mixes are nightmares, they are not the coat of one breed or another but combinations and very hard to groom or make it look like something.
Right now I am nursing a badly injured left hand from a bad dog bite, a grooming client, Lhasa Apso likely a cross, not registered bought at a flea market. DOg is downright dangerous and I have a feeling they are going to have to put him down as he is biting the family and cannot ever be trusted.
Do you think breeding to produce this dangerous dog was a good idea? The Lhasa or any crosses of the Lhasa have to be carefully bred and reared as they are known biters and I mean to draw blood and do as much damage as they can. they are not for every family and definitely not the breed of choice for the family who has him.

My girl Lulu · 05-08-2007, 08:19 PM

Do you think breeding to produce this dangerous dog was a good idea? The Lhasa or any crosses of the Lhasa have to be carefully bred and reared as they are known biters and I mean to draw blood and do as much damage as they can. they are not for every family and definitely not the breed of choice for the family who has him.[/QUOTE]

I became a member here because I wanted to learn about and become apart of people who love this breed as much as I do. But I have to voice my opinion regarding what is being said here. I grew up with a Lhasa mix who was the most wonderful dog I have ever had, and she got along with everyone and everything, never had a problem. Her groomer loves her and says she loves having her and she is one of the best behaved. I do not make the statement that I work around dogs or animals on a daily bases like I am guessing you do, but the statement above I think is a little harsh. You have to admit that you learn from your surroundings and so do our animals. To make the statement that they draw blood and do as much damage as they can is saying that they are ALL wild and can not be tamed. How can you say that?? I really don't understand. How would you feel if that was said about your/our favorite breed?? Would you feel that, that was a correct statement or just a bad apple??? Don't you think you may have over reacted in your statement?
I guess I am just having a hard time believing someone who seems to love animals so much could talk that way.
By the way if the Lhasa you are speaking of gives you such a hard time...why groom it anymore?
Thank you for letting me have my opinion too!!

My girl Lulu · 05-08-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine

1. Can't get it housebroken and don't have time for it anyway.
2. New baby and don't have time for it.
3. Had him for a week and it isnt' working out; way more work than I thought.
4. Barks
5. Got a new boyfriend (or girlfriend) dog has to go because we wont' have time for it.
6. Owner died no one in the family wants it.
7. Developed allergies.
The above were all Yorkies that I helped the owners find homes for or a rescue group that could help, and in some cases took in myself and kept because they were too old, no one wanted them. The rest I was able to find a new home. Most paid a good price for these dogs when they bought them as puppies.
Price is not going to guarantee a good home or a forever home.
That's where the dedication of breeders comes in where the breeder is willing to take back any dog or puppy they sell no matter the reason it comes back.
I don't believe I know of any mixed breed breeder willing to do that.
I do know not all purebred show breeders don't either but many, including me, do. And I end up rescuing dogs I never sold in the first place.
About 95% of my mobile dog grooming clients are mixed small breeds. Many have health problems from allergies to knee problems and very few have a proper scissor or even a reverse scissor bite. Instead they are grossly undershot with the bottom jaw jutting forward from the top jaw by as much as just shy of 1/2 inch. The coats in coated mixes are nightmares, they are not the coat of one breed or another but combinations and very hard to groom or make it look like something.
Right now I am nursing a badly injured left hand from a bad dog bite, a grooming client, Lhasa Apso likely a cross, not registered bought at a flea market. DOg is downright dangerous and I have a feeling they are going to have to put him down as he is biting the family and cannot ever be trusted.
Do you think breeding to produce this dangerous dog was a good idea? The Lhasa or any crosses of the Lhasa have to be carefully bred and reared as they are known biters and I mean to draw blood and do as much damage as they can. they are not for every family and definitely not the breed of choice for the family who has him.

I am sorry I still don't have this down pat

Lorraine · 05-08-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My girl Lulu

Do you think breeding to produce this dangerous dog was a good idea? The Lhasa or any crosses of the Lhasa have to be carefully bred and reared as they are known biters and I mean to draw blood and do as much damage as they can. they are not for every family and definitely not the breed of choice for the family who has him.

I became a member here because I wanted to learn about and become apart of people who love this breed as much as I do. But I have to voice my opinion regarding what is being said here. I grew up with a Lhasa mix who was the most wonderful dog I have ever had, and she got along with everyone and everything, never had a problem. Her groomer loves her and says she loves having her and she is one of the best behaved. I do not make the statement that I work around dogs or animals on a daily bases like I am guessing you do, but the statement above I think is a little harsh. You have to admit that you learn from your surroundings and so do our animals. To make the statement that they draw blood and do as much damage as they can is saying that they are ALL wild and can not be tamed. How can you say that?? I really don't understand. How would you feel if that was said about your/our favorite breed?? Would you feel that, that was a correct statement or just a bad apple??? Don't you think you may have over reacted in your statement?
I guess I am just having a hard time believing someone who seems to love animals so much could talk that way.
By the way if the Lhasa you are speaking of gives you such a hard time...why groom it anymore?
Thank you for letting me have my opinion too!![/QUOTE]
Who said I was going to groom it again? I could write more and say why I posted what I did but its' a waste of time and energy I can't be bothered.

JESSY_RN2B · 05-09-2007, 01:51 AM

Personally, I don't believe the way the yorkshire terrier was bred and 'developed' could be even compared to what is being practiced now with the current mixed breeds.

We all have strong opinions and oposing ones at that-so this is an ongoing topic. I don't agree with mixing and that is just my personal opinion-I also understand it shouldn't have to be everyone's.

chachi · 05-09-2007, 03:43 AM

There are enough mixes in shelters why add to them

Mardelin · 05-09-2007, 04:01 AM

Please go to this website to read on the history of the Yorkshire Terrier.

http://www.ytca.org/history.html

Diego · 05-09-2007, 04:11 AM

Why adding other mix breeds to the ones that are already in shelters ? I don't see any good reasons for it .

Mardelin · 05-09-2007, 04:14 AM

Quote:

This is not to start an agument thought it may but its to open the eyes of people who look down on the persons who may be trying to invent that new breed and do it correctly. im not stating that i am but there are people who work extremely hard to perfect their yorkie-poos and morkies, and so forth.

Yes, every great breed was developed by mixing and there are dog fanciers that are doing this today. But, they are doing it with a purpose in mind for that dog. They are documenting the progression of their breeding, as the registries of today require detailed documentation & historical data. The Biewer was rejected as a new breed by AKC because of the lack of detailed data. So, these fanciers are back to the drawing board in hopes to provide AKC with the data they are requiring. It's a long and hard process.

There is a difference between developing a breed and just breeding mixes to sell dogs.

05-08-2007, 05:36 PM	#1
tammy8833 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: VA Posts: 2,775	a little info for people so against mixing This is probably not going to take well but im really upset with people stating things about mixing breed for example about them being pathetic and ruining the standard and one person even told me digusting, and a true breeder should know the history of the breed and that EVERY breed has been mixed with other breeds to get that desired dog here is the info for several places including akc.org AKC.ORG The Yorkshire Terrier traces to the Waterside Terrier, a small longish-coated dog, bluish-gray in color, weighing between 6 and 20 pounds (most commonly 10 pounds). The Waterside Terrier was a breed formed by the crossing of the old rough-coated Black-and-Tan English Terrier (common in the Manchester area) and the Paisley and Clydesdale Terriers. It was brought to Yorkshire by weavers who migrated from Scotland to England in the mid-19th century. The Yorkshire Terrier made its first appearance at a bench show in England in 1861 as a "broken-haired Scotch Terrier". It became known as a Yorkshire Terrier in 1870 when, after the Westmoreland show, Angus Sutherland reported in The Field magazine that "they ought no longer be called Scotch Terriers, but Yorkshire Terriers for having been so improved there." History The Yorkshire Terrier also called Yorkie had its origin in the late 1800s early 1900s. It is not knows when exactly. The Yorkie was derived from mainly the Clydesdale Terrier, The Black and Tan English Toy Terrier and the Maltese. The Yorkie's name indicates were it originated from, namely Yorkshire in England or surroundings. The Yorkie's main function was to control the rat population in the coalmines and cotton mills. The Yorkie was much bigger at the time than we know a Yorkie today. The breed is only 100 years old or so, but its origins are not entirely certain - probably because the working men of north England, who developed the Yorkshire Terrier for catching the terrible rats that infested the mine shafts and as a hunting dog that could penetrate into badger and fox burrows, avoided divulging the secret of their success to those who might have cashed in on a lucrative side line. However, it seems likely that Scotsmen seeking work in the woolen mills of Yorkshire brought with them various types of terrier, including the Skye and the now extinct Clydesdale. These were then crossed with local types, such as the long- haired Leeds Terrier. The Maltese, Black & Tan Manchester, and Dandie Dinmont Terriers may also have contributed blood lines. At first, the Yorkie was a much bigger animal than the one we see today, but by selectively breeding the smallest individuals, the dog was gradually miniaturized over the years. They were made into a fashion dog. Women carried these little dogs in their bags and under their arms. The first Yorkshire, with the characteristics demanded by its standard today, appeared in a do every great breed begins as a mix! its a TRUE and FACTURAL thing. and to say that mixing is ruining can all together be incorrect. one day these mixed breeds may be registered with akc. so before you start raving about how prestine the purebred yorkie is think how you got a yorkie... there was more than two breeds involved wow that sounds like a mungrel to me. This is not to start an agument thought it may but its to open the eyes of people who look down on the persons who may be trying to invent that new breed and do it correctly. im not stating that i am but there are people who work extremely hard to perfect their yorkie-poos and morkies, and so forth __________________ Tammy YT Gallery Lil Girl Princess & Theodore *Gidget R.I.P**

05-08-2007, 06:04 PM	#3
tammy8833 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: VA Posts: 2,775	well..i dont agree with puppy mills breeding and breeding mixes into mixes..but all breeds come from something and some of these breeds are desired and people ARE willing to pay from them. people wouldnt breed them if peope wouldnt buy them..right? and where i live there is no small breeds in shelters here. if they werent desired by people, breeders wouldnt be breeding them so often and charging so much. some breeders get crazy money for these dogs and if its me..and i spend $$$ on a dog its not going to a shelter because so much money might be have involved. __________________ Tammy YT Gallery Lil Girl Princess & Theodore *Gidget R.I.P**

05-08-2007, 06:14 PM	#4
Lorraine Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Abbotsford, BC Posts: 2,060	It takes dedication, dog fanciers that have committed their effort for any of the purebred breeds to be developed. They did not come about by taking a maltese breeding to a Yorkie calling it a yorkese or whatever the heck you want to call it. It took many years, keeping records and all wtih a certain dog in mind that when it was finally produced you could breed it and it would breed true over time and generations. You don't get dogs that breed true when you mix two or more breeds and get puppies and breed those, call it whatever designer breed comes to mind and sell puppies at some inflated price as rare. Get a book about the various breeds that breeders have developed and you will find how it was done. Breeding because they sell is not really the best reason in the world to breed. __________________ Lorraine www.loribenyorkies.com Canada

05-08-2007, 06:49 PM	#7
Lorraine Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Abbotsford, BC Posts: 2,060	1. Can't get it housebroken and don't have time for it anyway. 2. New baby and don't have time for it. 3. Had him for a week and it isnt' working out; way more work than I thought. 4. Barks 5. Got a new boyfriend (or girlfriend) dog has to go because we wont' have time for it. 6. Owner died no one in the family wants it. 7. Developed allergies. The above were all Yorkies that I helped the owners find homes for or a rescue group that could help, and in some cases took in myself and kept because they were too old, no one wanted them. The rest I was able to find a new home. Most paid a good price for these dogs when they bought them as puppies. Price is not going to guarantee a good home or a forever home. That's where the dedication of breeders comes in where the breeder is willing to take back any dog or puppy they sell no matter the reason it comes back. I don't believe I know of any mixed breed breeder willing to do that. I do know not all purebred show breeders don't either but many, including me, do. And I end up rescuing dogs I never sold in the first place. About 95% of my mobile dog grooming clients are mixed small breeds. Many have health problems from allergies to knee problems and very few have a proper scissor or even a reverse scissor bite. Instead they are grossly undershot with the bottom jaw jutting forward from the top jaw by as much as just shy of 1/2 inch. The coats in coated mixes are nightmares, they are not the coat of one breed or another but combinations and very hard to groom or make it look like something. Right now I am nursing a badly injured left hand from a bad dog bite, a grooming client, Lhasa Apso likely a cross, not registered bought at a flea market. DOg is downright dangerous and I have a feeling they are going to have to put him down as he is biting the family and cannot ever be trusted. Do you think breeding to produce this dangerous dog was a good idea? The Lhasa or any crosses of the Lhasa have to be carefully bred and reared as they are known biters and I mean to draw blood and do as much damage as they can. they are not for every family and definitely not the breed of choice for the family who has him. __________________ Lorraine www.loribenyorkies.com Canada

05-08-2007, 08:19 PM	#8
My girl Lulu Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Oviedo, FL Posts: 72	Do you think breeding to produce this dangerous dog was a good idea? The Lhasa or any crosses of the Lhasa have to be carefully bred and reared as they are known biters and I mean to draw blood and do as much damage as they can. they are not for every family and definitely not the breed of choice for the family who has him.[/QUOTE] I became a member here because I wanted to learn about and become apart of people who love this breed as much as I do. But I have to voice my opinion regarding what is being said here. I grew up with a Lhasa mix who was the most wonderful dog I have ever had, and she got along with everyone and everything, never had a problem. Her groomer loves her and says she loves having her and she is one of the best behaved. I do not make the statement that I work around dogs or animals on a daily bases like I am guessing you do, but the statement above I think is a little harsh. You have to admit that you learn from your surroundings and so do our animals. To make the statement that they draw blood and do as much damage as they can is saying that they are ALL wild and can not be tamed. How can you say that?? I really don't understand. How would you feel if that was said about your/our favorite breed?? Would you feel that, that was a correct statement or just a bad apple??? Don't you think you may have over reacted in your statement? I guess I am just having a hard time believing someone who seems to love animals so much could talk that way. By the way if the Lhasa you are speaking of gives you such a hard time...why groom it anymore? Thank you for letting me have my opinion too!! __________________ Me and Lulu

05-08-2007, 05:56 PM	#2
my2boyz Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my house :) Posts: 5,219	That's all wonderful information that I don't think anyone has disputed, we know our Yorkies 'came from' something and we don't have a problem with that. However, the problem lies in the breeders who continuously mix and breed their dogs with no regard just to try and come up with the next hot designer dog so they can charge the unsuspecting public a ridiculous amount of money and make their fortune. We all know these 'designer dogs' are sitting in shelters all over the country...puppies and adults...and if someone wants a mix that's where they should start their search. I have nothing against mutts or mixes or whatever you want to call them but I do have a problem with the so called breeders. If they're only trying to come up with the next new breed why do they charge so much for a puppy when the mix isn't perfected and registered? (Because it's all about the money!) Shouldn't that high of a price be reserved for the breed when it is perfected and registered?

05-09-2007, 01:51 AM	#11
JESSY_RN2B Owned by 3 furballs Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 6,581	Personally, I don't believe the way the yorkshire terrier was bred and 'developed' could be even compared to what is being practiced now with the current mixed breeds. We all have strong opinions and oposing ones at that-so this is an ongoing topic. I don't agree with mixing and that is just my personal opinion-I also understand it shouldn't have to be everyone's. __________________ Bobbi Yorkietalk http://www.dogster.com/dogs/395435 And now........little Aja too! http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/23776545

05-09-2007, 03:43 AM	#12
chachi I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 37,147	There are enough mixes in shelters why add to them __________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431 Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427

05-09-2007, 04:01 AM	#13
Mardelin Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 14,776	Please go to this website to read on the history of the Yorkshire Terrier. http://www.ytca.org/history.html __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

05-09-2007, 04:11 AM	#14
Diego Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 3,617	Why adding other mix breeds to the ones that are already in shelters ? I don't see any good reasons for it .