nicnak yorkies

[Saleswman]

...if she does not sell Showdogs.......how do people have her line in their Yorkies..???? I am soooooooo confused.....guess I need to take a class in genetics too....I see her line in Yorkie magazine, and they are not all being shown from Laurie...I am really confused with the inter ......inter....inside workings within the show arena. Thankfully, I have a few very respected show people that help with my questions......


Please don't think I am ignorant......I am still learning......

Shirley

[Saleswman]

....I may have figured this out on my own........maybe


Oh, just excuse me...you guys....I think I am working way to hard....LOL

[Lorraine]

I have posted this in various threads before Shirley, I thought you had read what can happen but maybe not.
Some of the dogs you see in YTM and elsewhere that are not shown by Laurie, some are ones that she has trusted people with her line. She expects them to be trustworthy and they will not sell show dogs out of her line she entrusted with them without asking her first.
Unfortunately, that hasn't always held and sometimes people that Laurie has trusted with her line, didn't hold up their end of the bargain. So they have sold elsewhere and the puppy or dog they sold has now been put in someone else's hands that Laurie had no previous knowledge of a deal happening.
If the person that gets the dog from someone Laurie entrusted with her line is also honourable, then Laurie has lucked out but she is still going to be very unhappy that the person she trusted proved themselves untrustworthy. However, very often her Nicnak line can end up where it shouldn't be and Nicnak ends up being in pedigrees usually 2 or 3 generations back of very poor backyard type breeders because breeders who are just breeding and selling will sell to anyone on open papers and want to get their hands on lines like NicNak.
Laurie is also very protective of her line because any kennel names behind the Nicnak name are going to go right along with the Nicnak dog that has those kennel names. So not only does Laurie get burned but also reputable breeders that trusted Laurie.
This is just as example, as Laurie Hunter and Nicnak has come up in this thread. I can't begin to tell you how many reputable breeders this scenario has happened to.
So, as I have posted many times, no one is going to sell anything outright, at least no one reputable will. They will sell on a co ownership if you can talk them into trusting you that far. After that, they may hold co - ownership until they are sure about you. And many are finding out they need to protect their kennel names 2-3 generations down the line.
Notice people on this thread that know Laurie and in some cases know her personally, have been to her home, they have hung out together at shows. There is some relationship involved. The people Laurie has entrusted her lines to did not just contact her and expect her to send them a show dog.
That isn't going to happen unless she really knows you very well and knows her dog and her line is safe in your hands. Any reputable breeder will do the same thing.
If you really want to gain the trust of a reputable breeder, start with a reasonably good show male and prove yourself by working with him and finishing a championship. You are not going to win the trust of a reputable show breeder very easily if you will only insist on a bitch and you will have to agree to co ownership on that male.

[Saleswman]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

I have posted this in various threads before Shirley, I thought you had read what can happen but maybe not.
Some of the dogs you see in YTM and elsewhere that are not shown by Laurie, some are ones that she has trusted people with her line. She expects them to be trustworthy and they will not sell show dogs out of her line she entrusted with them without asking her first.
Unfortunately, that hasn't always held and sometimes people that Laurie has trusted with her line, didn't hold up their end of the bargain. So they have sold elsewhere and the puppy or dog they sold has now been put in someone else's hands that Laurie had no previous knowledge of a deal happening.
If the person that gets the dog from someone Laurie entrusted with her line is also honourable, then Laurie has lucked out but she is still going to be very unhappy that the person she trusted proved themselves untrustworthy. However, very often her Nicnak line can end up where it shouldn't be and Nicnak ends up being in pedigrees usually 2 or 3 generations back of very poor backyard type breeders because breeders who are just breeding and selling will sell to anyone on open papers and want to get their hands on lines like NicNak.
Laurie is also very protective of her line because any kennel names behind the Nicnak name are going to go right along with the Nicnak dog that has those kennel names. So not only does Laurie get burned but also reputable breeders that trusted Laurie.
This is just as example, as Laurie Hunter and Nicnak has come up in this thread. I can't begin to tell you how many reputable breeders this scenario has happened to.
So, as I have posted many times, no one is going to sell anything outright, at least no one reputable will. They will sell on a co ownership if you can talk them into trusting you that far. After that, they may hold co - ownership until they are sure about you. And many are finding out they need to protect their kennel names 2-3 generations down the line.
Notice people on this thread that know Laurie and in some cases know her personally, have been to her home, they have hung out together at shows. There is some relationship involved. The people Laurie has entrusted her lines to did not just contact her and expect her to send them a show dog.
That isn't going to happen unless she really knows you very well and knows her dog and her line is safe in your hands. Any reputable breeder will do the same thing.
If you really want to gain the trust of a reputable breeder, start with a reasonably good show male and prove yourself by working with him and finishing a championship. You are not going to win the trust of a reputable show breeder very easily if you will only insist on a bitch and you will have to agree to co ownership on that male.

You are so very articulate....I understand completely. That is why I have spent the last two years learning, and attending shows, reading and listening.....I do appreciate your candor....and I am not at all offended by it.....It makes very good sense to me....It is very sad, when some one purchases a Yorkie....with the intentions to show....and does something not in the best interest of the breeder and the Yorkie only to have puppies.....

Too much work is involved in this "development" of a quality line of Yorkies to ever screw it up by carelessness......but,it sounds like it has happened a time or two........what a shame.

Thanks Lorraine......its nice to see you help me understand....I really appreciate it....

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Saleswman

You are so very articulate....I understand completely. That is why I have spent the last two years learning, and attending shows, reading and listening.....I do appreciate your candor....and I am not at all offended by it.....It makes very good sense to me....It is very sad, when some one purchases a Yorkie....with the intentions to show....and does something not in the best interest of the breeder and the Yorkie only to have puppies.....

Too much work is involved in this "development" of a quality line of Yorkies to ever screw it up by carelessness......but,it sounds like it has happened a time or two........what a shame.

Thanks Lorraine......its nice to see you help me understand....I really appreciate it....

Shirley,

I PM'd you providing you with pretty much this same info. Lorraine just expanded on it. It's been known that some, when purchasing a show dog, have contacted a breeder within that pedigree to obtain their permission to obtain the dog. Lorraine has been known to do this. I know that one person that has obtained a show dog from me contacted my breeder/mentor and did the same. It may have been my breeding, but it is still her line. It won't be mine for many, many more generations to come.

As you've said....oh, this inner, inner workings of the show dog world.....lots to learn.

[topknot]

One just has to look at how many people are breeding yorkies for puppies and not researching or looking at the standard to understand why reputable breeders are protecting their lines. It is far too easy to have your hard work and dedication for the breed go under by even just one person. There are so many people that will want your puppies if you are well know, like Laurie (NicNak). She is just doing what she needs to do for her potection. Can you imagine how terrible it would be if she sells a beautiful show dog to someone and they end up not showing it and instead breeds it with out her knowledge. How dishonest and easily it can be done nowadays with all the different registries. She has no alternative but to want to get to know someone well and that she learns to trust before selling them a high quality dog of her line. But because of this it does make it hard for people like Shirley to get a nice show dog (the first one), especially when there are so many miles between the breeder and herself. We tell people to get to know the lines and pick one they love and contact that breeder. It use to be a lot easier to buy a dog from the line you admired, because there were not so many yorkie people or so many people breeding just to breed in the older days. It is a much different story today.
T.

[Ladyhawk]

I agree with just about someone in everytown wanting to breed for a buck now days it's very hard to obtain a good show dog. I've been looking for a female to show for some time and being new it's almost impossible to secure one without going out of the country. It will take many years to develop my line so for now it may just have to be me and Connor trotting around the show circuit alone.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by topknot

One just has to look at how many people are breeding yorkies for puppies and not researching or looking at the standard to understand why reputable breeders are protecting their lines. It is far too easy to have your hard work and dedication for the breed go under by even just one person. There are so many people that will want your puppies if you are well know, like Laurie (NicNak). She is just doing what she needs to do for her potection. Can you imagine how terrible it would be if she sells a beautiful show dog to someone and they end up not showing it and instead breeds it with out her knowledge. How dishonest and easily it can be done nowadays with all the different registries. She has no alternative but to want to get to know someone well and that she learns to trust before selling them a high quality dog of her line. But because of this it does make it hard for people like Shirley to get a nice show dog (the first one), especially when there are so many miles between the breeder and herself. We tell people to get to know the lines and pick one they love and contact that breeder. It use to be a lot easier to buy a dog from the line you admired, because there were not so many yorkie people or so many people breeding just to breed in the older days. It is a much different story today.
T.

I just did a search on some well known pedigrees.......amazing what came up.....Well known Ch. dogs way back in the pedigree and unknown?????/ dogs way up front. How this happened, is most likely as Lorraine said, someone trusted the wrong person. The days of a hand shake to solidify the exchange of a show dog are over (I wasn't around then). Contracts are at this time the best way to help aliviate the misuse of a line, but then contracts are only as good as the 2 people that sign them.

[Olivier]

Selling to the wrong person happened to me just one time . I had so much difficulties with this person that I decided enough is enough with the non-breeding contract , all my Yorkies are spayed or neutered before leaving my home . Sometimes peoples ask me to have one and they will take them to their vet for spaying or neutering , I refuse to sell to them .

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Olivier

Selling to the wrong person happened to me just one time . I had so much difficulties with this person that I decided enough is enough with the non-breeding contract , all my Yorkies are spayed or neutered before leaving my home . Sometimes peoples ask me to have one and they will take them to their vet for spaying or neutering , I refuse to sell to them .

Tough lesson to learn. All it takes is one person to betray your trust to make you overly cautious. Sorry it happened to you.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

I just did a search on some well known pedigrees.......amazing what came up.....Well known Ch. dogs way back in the pedigree and unknown?????/ dogs way up front. How this happened, is most likely as Lorraine said, someone trusted the wrong person. The days of a hand shake to solidify the exchange of a show dog are over (I wasn't around then). Contracts are at this time the best way to help aliviate the misuse of a line, but then contracts are only as good as the 2 people that sign them.

It wasn't all that many years ago that reputable breeders of good quality lines didn't have to be so careful. With the sudden boom in prices of small breed dogs especially the Yorkie every byb and puppymill is looking for them. They want the good quality Ch. lines because they will charge more for the puppy that goes back to that line although the other side of the pedigree are usually very poor quality.
The byb certainly does not know the difference in quality anyway but is selling purely on the pedigree for pumped up prices off the backs of the show breeder that put all the work, money and love into their dogs.
By the time the reputable breeders realized what was happening, the horses were already out of the barn so to speak. That's why you see what you descirbed and unfortunately there isn't much that can be done now except that reputable breeders are now more than ever very careful of what they do.
Even then they can still get fooled. It is heartbreaking to know that people will do that, put on a good front to get a certain line then do what they said they never would do, ie sell or stud out, without the knowledge or okay from the breeder they got their dogs from. As I have said before as well, doing something like this to a reputable breeder will be known far and wide and that person will have a hard time getting any other reputable breeder to trust them -- if one ever will again.
Gotta be careful what you do as it will be found out.

[shyorkies]

As I have learnt in the last 24 hours altering every puppy you place before you place them is the right thing to do! ONE wrong decision will be with you the rest of your life..

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by Laurie Hunter

Thank you Robbie

World and Multi BIS BISS Ch NicNak's She's A Keeper " Kissy" at 10 years old. She is truly the princess of the Camparis home.
She was also Res Best In Show veteran at the World Show 2006 with a entry of over 300 all breed veterans.

Absolutely stunning!