Does Breeder supposed to pay(or refund purchase money) for LP surgery before 1st year - YorkieTalk.com Forums

NIKITA & LILO · 04-30-2007, 06:47 PM

I found out that Lilo has LP in both of her back legs, when she was about 8-9 mo. old. I contacted my breeder, to tell her about it, and I asked her to refund me the purchase money ($750) or part of it,so I can put it towards the surgery. Her response was that, she will not accept it under her health gurantee BC It happens, in some dogs, and she "TRIES" not to have it in her breeding line.When I told her that lilo already has 2nd grade in her right knee , she told me that few of her dogs had bad LP and they never needed the surgery. Her another "excuse" was that she sells them so cheap, BC they are supposed to be pets only

So what I should do now. Her expalnations do not make any sense to me. I read other breeders health guarantees ,and they state that it include LP up to 1 year.
Should I try to contact her again???

NIKITA & LILO · 04-30-2007, 06:54 PM

She states in her Health guarantee that Fluctuating patellas are not covered, But is it the same like LP ???

dray · 04-30-2007, 06:58 PM

She will probably live the rest of her life with out needing surgery. I do not believe you will get any compensation from this breeder as this condition can be caused by injury as well as breeding.
I have groomed several dogs their whole lives with loose patella's and they do just fine. A lot of breeders exclude patella's from their health guarantee.
Good luck to the both of you.

mojo · 04-30-2007, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIKITA & LILO

She states in her Health guarantee that Fluctuating patellas are not covered, But is it the same like LP ???

Yes, it is the same and unless it is specified in a signed contract, unfortunately, your breeder will not cover it. As said, can be born with it or can be caused by a lot of jumping off beds, couches, etc.

Is your vet recommending surgery at this point?

Mardelin · 05-01-2007, 02:58 AM

Unless covered in your contract, you really can't expect compensation.

Yes, LP can be genetic and/or caused by normal jumping.

Some vets are quick to advise surgery, I'd get a second opinion. Unless your puppy is in extreme discomfort, requiring medication to aliviate the pain, surgery probably isn't required. Keep her weight down and discourage any jumping.

Sugar's Mom · 05-01-2007, 05:26 AM

i am sorry to hear about your baby. as other posters have said, i would get a second opinion. Also, I wonder if there is a way to tell if LP is genetic or caused by injury? my pups are checked for Lp, as are their parents, but I know it can show up later. I wish there was a blood test they could do on the puppies for this. I have one high jumper and bouncer in my bunch and i worry about her legs all the time. Thi little gal can jump four feet and almost over the baby gate.

Mardelin · 05-01-2007, 05:37 AM

No such DNA marker....the only DNA markers that are very close to being on the market is the Liver Shunt and the one that will be able to prove, beyond the Sire and Dam, whether or not the dog is pure bred or not.

Sugar's Mom · 05-01-2007, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mardelin

No such DNA marker....the only DNA markers that are very close to being on the market is the Liver Shunt and the one that will be able to prove, beyond the Sire and Dam, whether or not the dog is pure bred or not.

Thanks, that's what I thought. Mine have all been liver shunt tested too. But, i don't LS test my babies because i don't want to fast them but my guarantee covers that for my people so it is okay. When i got ceeby, I was just learning all this stuff and took him to the vet next day for wellness check and the vet wouldn't do the test because he only weighed nine ounces. i did get him tested before i started breeding him tho. you would think that with all the technology we have today that they could ddna for LP.

Mardelin · 05-01-2007, 05:47 AM

A bit of info. While Shunt Testing does reveal that your pup is without the desease, it doesn't reveal that the pup is not a carrier......The DNA marker when finally developed will provide that info.

Luxating Patellas is something that has plagued the Toy Breeds....if you look at their skeletal system you'd see why, the groove in that area is virtually very shallow.....it can be hereditary and it can be caused by injury.......

Brooklynn · 05-01-2007, 08:15 AM

LP as many here have stated can either be genetic, congential or caused by injury and as I've been doing alot of research I have now excluded LP from my contract due to more and more of the toy breeds with LP have been caused from injury from simply jumping up and down in a pen or off the furniture. My puppies are vet checked "3" times before leaving my house and are required to see a vet of their new owners and if they are born with it the vet should pick up some luxating in the knees before the puppy leaves my home but of course if there is some luxating in the knees then I'll cover LP in my contract for one year. Grades 1-2 should NOT require surgery unless meds can not control the pain. I prefer the non surgery approach if at all possible!!!
JMHO!

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

NIKITA & LILO · 05-01-2007, 07:24 PM

big

to all the answers. I think that I'll wait with Lilos surgery and see if it gets worst. Once her knee will reach 3rd stage than I'll do the surgery for sure. Untill than I'll just make sure, that she will not jump up and down from the furnitures. She doesn't seem in pain, so I think that I can put out the surgery for later. But I'll do it for sure, since it might cause athritise (sp?).

BamaFan121s · 05-01-2007, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

Also, I wonder if there is a way to tell if LP is genetic or caused by injury?

Yes, actually. Generally if it was caused by injury, a vet will be able to tell from a (good) x-ray as it will show damaged tissue surrounding the joint or scarring from previous injury. It is not ALWAYS visible, but it is generally a good indication.

(I actually got to see this on an x-ray not long ago.)

Sugar's Mom · 05-02-2007, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Yes, actually. Generally if it was caused by injury, a vet will be able to tell from a (good) x-ray as it will show damaged tissue surrounding the joint or scarring from previous injury. It is not ALWAYS visible, but it is generally a good indication.

(I actually got to see this on an x-ray not long ago.)

this is good to know. thank you. My pregnant gal is a "hopper and jumper". that gal can jump four feet in the air. I am scared to death she is going to break her leg or kill her babies. she goes to the x-pen here in about two days so that should stop al that. Thanks for your answer.

BamaFan121s · 05-02-2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

this is good to know. thank you. My pregnant gal is a "hopper and jumper". that gal can jump four feet in the air. I am scared to death she is going to break her leg or kill her babies. she goes to the x-pen here in about two days so that should stop al that. Thanks for your answer.

Sometimes even a belly full of wiggly babies won't slow them down! Trixie would die trying to jump on the bed, we just got her 'stairs' for the time being. Well here's "hopping"

you don't have to find out first hand anytime soon...or anytime at all.

BamaFan121s · 05-02-2007, 04:51 PM

Someone asked me to try to describe what I saw in the x-ray, so I thought I'd answer it here.

Explain it...hmmm...
1st, our vet took about a million different angles of the knee up close.

Looking at the tissue around it, you could see a smoothness, kind of lines...the 'grain of the tissue' I guess you could say. It looked smooth and the tissue was all an even shade. Then in the area closest to the actual kneecap itself, there was a disruption in the smoothness...maybe the size of an eraser...that just looked 'fuzzy.' There was another maybe half the size beside it too. (Small, but only a 2 pound dog here) I really wished could have gotten a copy, but she kept them so she could compare later.
The dog...my parents small male...had stepped of one single stair wrong, fell, then got up limping. The vet classified it as grade 1...but later on after he'd 'recovered' said she couldn't really detect it unless she forced it.

I tried to search the net to see if I could find an example and couldn't, but I did come accross this really nice site with some great examples of LP.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/medi...g_patella.html

04-30-2007, 06:47 PM	#1
NIKITA & LILO Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: McLean , VA Posts: 458	Does Breeder supposed to pay(or refund purchase money) for LP surgery before 1st year I found out that Lilo has LP in both of her back legs, when she was about 8-9 mo. old. I contacted my breeder, to tell her about it, and I asked her to refund me the purchase money ($750) or part of it,so I can put it towards the surgery. Her response was that, she will not accept it under her health gurantee BC It happens, in some dogs, and she "TRIES" not to have it in her breeding line.When I told her that lilo already has 2nd grade in her right knee , she told me that few of her dogs had bad LP and they never needed the surgery. Her another "excuse" was that she sells them so cheap, BC they are supposed to be pets only So what I should do now. Her expalnations do not make any sense to me. I read other breeders health guarantees ,and they state that it include LP up to 1 year. Should I try to contact her again??? __________________ NIKITA & LILO If my little girl is a PRINCESS, does it make me a QUEEN?

04-30-2007, 06:54 PM	#2
NIKITA & LILO Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: McLean , VA Posts: 458	She states in her Health guarantee that Fluctuating patellas are not covered, But is it the same like LP ??? __________________ NIKITA & LILO If my little girl is a PRINCESS, does it make me a QUEEN?

04-30-2007, 06:58 PM	#3
dray Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Silverton Oregon Posts: 1,103	She will probably live the rest of her life with out needing surgery. I do not believe you will get any compensation from this breeder as this condition can be caused by injury as well as breeding. I have groomed several dogs their whole lives with loose patella's and they do just fine. A lot of breeders exclude patella's from their health guarantee. Good luck to the both of you. __________________ Debbie Ray www.sumtoiyorkies.com

05-01-2007, 02:58 AM	#5
Mardelin YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 4,037	Unless covered in your contract, you really can't expect compensation. Yes, LP can be genetic and/or caused by normal jumping. Some vets are quick to advise surgery, I'd get a second opinion. Unless your puppy is in extreme discomfort, requiring medication to aliviate the pain, surgery probably isn't required. Keep her weight down and discourage any jumping. __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

05-01-2007, 05:26 AM	#6
Sugar's Mom Donating YT 7000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 7,477	i am sorry to hear about your baby. as other posters have said, i would get a second opinion. Also, I wonder if there is a way to tell if LP is genetic or caused by injury? my pups are checked for Lp, as are their parents, but I know it can show up later. I wish there was a blood test they could do on the puppies for this. I have one high jumper and bouncer in my bunch and i worry about her legs all the time. Thi little gal can jump four feet and almost over the baby gate. __________________ Dee and all the Pretty Babies!!!!!!!! at deeslilyorkshireterriers

05-01-2007, 05:37 AM	#7
Mardelin YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 4,037	No such DNA marker....the only DNA markers that are very close to being on the market is the Liver Shunt and the one that will be able to prove, beyond the Sire and Dam, whether or not the dog is pure bred or not. __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers*

05-01-2007, 05:47 AM	#9
Mardelin YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California Posts: 4,037	A bit of info. While Shunt Testing does reveal that your pup is without the desease, it doesn't reveal that the pup is not a carrier......The DNA marker when finally developed will provide that info. Luxating Patellas is something that has plagued the Toy Breeds....if you look at their skeletal system you'd see why, the groove in that area is virtually very shallow.....it can be hereditary and it can be caused by injury....... __________________ Mardelin *Yorkshire* *Terriers* Last edited by Mardelin; 05-01-2007 at 05:49 AM.

05-01-2007, 08:15 AM	#10
Brooklynn YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,536	LP as many here have stated can either be genetic, congential or caused by injury and as I've been doing alot of research I have now excluded LP from my contract due to more and more of the toy breeds with LP have been caused from injury from simply jumping up and down in a pen or off the furniture. My puppies are vet checked "3" times before leaving my house and are required to see a vet of their new owners and if they are born with it the vet should pick up some luxating in the knees before the puppy leaves my home but of course if there is some luxating in the knees then I'll cover LP in my contract for one year. Grades 1-2 should NOT require surgery unless meds can not control the pain. I prefer the non surgery approach if at all possible!!! JMHO! Donna Bird Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

05-01-2007, 07:24 PM	#11
NIKITA & LILO Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: McLean , VA Posts: 458	big to all the answers. I think that I'll wait with Lilos surgery and see if it gets worst. Once her knee will reach 3rd stage than I'll do the surgery for sure. Untill than I'll just make sure, that she will not jump up and down from the furnitures. She doesn't seem in pain, so I think that I can put out the surgery for later. But I'll do it for sure, since it might cause athritise (sp?). __________________ NIKITA & LILO If my little girl is a PRINCESS, does it make me a QUEEN?

05-02-2007, 04:51 PM	#15
BamaFan121s YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,970	Someone asked me to try to describe what I saw in the x-ray, so I thought I'd answer it here. Explain it...hmmm... 1st, our vet took about a million different angles of the knee up close. Looking at the tissue around it, you could see a smoothness, kind of lines...the 'grain of the tissue' I guess you could say. It looked smooth and the tissue was all an even shade. Then in the area closest to the actual kneecap itself, there was a disruption in the smoothness...maybe the size of an eraser...that just looked 'fuzzy.' There was another maybe half the size beside it too. (Small, but only a 2 pound dog here) I really wished could have gotten a copy, but she kept them so she could compare later. The dog...my parents small male...had stepped of one single stair wrong, fell, then got up limping. The vet classified it as grade 1...but later on after he'd 'recovered' said she couldn't really detect it unless she forced it. I tried to search the net to see if I could find an example and couldn't, but I did come accross this really nice site with some great examples of LP. http://www.marvistavet.com/html/medi...g_patella.html __________________ ...........Misty........... Trixie * Lexi * Chipsie