Need 2nd,3rd,4th,5th, etc. opinions ASAP - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Lacy's Mom · 10-29-2006, 12:02 PM

This concerns one of my puppies that has went to a new home:

I recommend vaccines at 10, 14 and 18 weeks

Puppy Born 7-26-06
October 3rd - given first vaccine (combo no lepto no corona) at 10 weeks

He will be 14 weeks on October 31st

Exposed to parvo in same house almost a week ago. The parvo stricken dog is in the hospital on i.v. and the vet can't say for sure it's parvo????? Not my vet, but doesn't sound right to me.

Rowdy, my puppy shows no signs, no lethargy, no soft stools, no vomiting, perfectly healthy. I think he should get his 2nd vaccine today, but the vet tech told them he shouldn't??????

They are taking my advice and on their way over so I can give vaccine. Am I wrong - I don't like anything they are telling me about their vet so I don't trust any advice their being given, but would like some more opinions.

20 years ago, I had a litter exposed to parvo and the vet had me bring them all in for a vaccine saying if they did contract it it would be a lighter case, but that was 20 years ago. They did get parvo, but were never hospitalized. I just forced fed Pedialyte with a nasal bulb aspirator every hour around the clock and in about 3 weeks they all started eating and drinking again on their own.

annaschaben · 10-29-2006, 12:20 PM

Tough call. If he was exposed to Parvo getting a vaccine today won't prevent him from getting it from the prior exposure. I don't know about making it a lighter case or not. What does your current vet say?

Why don't you give the shots at 6,8,10,&12 weeks? That way the pups can have at least two shots before they go to new homes.

Lacy's Mom · 10-29-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by annaschaben

Tough call. If he was exposed to Parvo getting a vaccine today won't prevent him from getting it from the prior exposure. I don't know about making it a lighter case or not. What does your current vet say?

Why don't you give the shots at 6,8,10,&12 weeks? That way the pups can have at least two shots before they go to new homes.

I have done tons and tons of research on vaccines and feel we are overvaccinating our dogs and it is harmful to have too many.

I am very conservative on vaccines and want the puppies to have as few as possible. A vaccine is of no use until the mother's antibodies leave their bodies because the natural immunity destroys the vaccine. So if they're nursing until 7 weeks or 8 weeks I feel they are protected under the immunity received from the mother and I also don't allow anyone to have contact with the puppies at this age. So I feel 10 weeks (because mine nurse so long) is the first vaccine that could be effective. They are 11 weeks before I even place an ad to sell.

I want the vaccines carried out until a minimum of 16 weeks, in fact some vets are even recommending 18 weeks because the pup's natural immunity still isn't allowing an effective vaccine in a small percentage of puppies at 16 weeks. So I would rather start later (in a very controlled environment) and give them longer and still not give over 3 series.

Lacy's Mom · 10-29-2006, 03:12 PM

Just visited with the puppy. He is showing no signs at all. We called him Rowdy and the name still fits!

I just talked to my vet and he was honest in saying there wasn't really a correct answer we could only speculate. He thinks not to give the vaccine because they lower immunity and may make him more susceptible to the virus, whether its parvo, campylobacter or something else. He didn't feel that a vaccine given at this point could prevent or lessen the virus because it takes time after the vaccination is given to build immunity. He feels that we have a good chance that the last vaccine given was effective in building immunity since the puppy is showing no signs, but incubation period has been known to be as long as 15 days, but not usually in puppies.

He then says, if the dog doesn't have parvo then we would be better to give the vaccine.

I wish I knew if the dog even had parvo. She is over a year and had her annual booster in June. I can't see how it could be parvo, but I know "vaccinated" dogs have come down with what was diagnosed as parvo. She has smelly bloody diarrhea, low white blood cell count, vomiting, but the no fever, low positive on the parvo test and being vaccinated puzzles me - I'm thinking possibly campylobacter. They called the emergency clinic and they said $19 to $21 for a campy test so I am hoping they do that - in fact, I need to call them and offer to pay for it - if it came back as Campy it would be worth the $20.00 to me to know what we are dealing with and would also help their dog since treatment for parvo and campy are very different.

doortego · 10-29-2006, 03:40 PM

If it is parvo, would the puppy be better off taken out of the house where it was?

Lacy's Mom · 10-29-2006, 04:26 PM

I was wondering the same thing. I asked if she had a friend that didn't own any dogs, but she said no. I can't think of anyone either who wants to open their house to a possible parvo exposure even if they don't have any dogs. Of course, if they don't have a dog and like them they are planning on getting a dog at some point. I even thought about taking the dog back temporarily, but I have three. They're all vaccinated, but if the virus can live in the house for up to a year or more then I will be exposing my house which will have future babies.

We talked about it. They have thrown out all feed dishes, bedding, bleached what they could and used something called Parvasol on everything else. We decided since "Rowdy" has already been in extremely close contact with the other dog then he is already exposed and really can't get more exposed, hopefully.

I've been doing reading on Campy sounds like it probably isn't because the incubation is very short, especially for puppies so Rowdy would have probably come down with it quickly. I did find places where it said two dogs however can be kenneled together and one not come down with it even though it is extremely contagious????? Too many questions and not enough definite answers!!!!!

ButterflyYorkie · 10-29-2006, 07:16 PM

Oh man Lacy's Mom this is a tough call and I'm sorry this is happening. I too was (am) concerned about over-vaccinating. I give my first vaccine at 8 wks. I guess this is good evidence here that even though there are always risks with vaccinating it's situations like you've mentioned that is why we must.
The mess is out there and our pups can very easily be exposed like in your baby's case. Good luck to your puppy. I hope it doesn't contract anything. Hopefully the first vaccine will aid in it's immunity. And I would have done exactly as you did... gave the second if it was due as long as the pup was showing no signs and in good health. I hope it turns out ok!

There is a person about a half mile up my street who raises english setters. I caught wind that there was a corona infection going on with his dogs back in April. Since I no longer give a corona vaccine you can imagine how I had my gang under lock and key even though my dogs have no contact with his. One of his older pups that a neigbor on up the street ended up getting wandered down to my house about a week ago. I look outside and my daughter and her friend are on the swing set slowly swinging this pup on their lap on the double seater swing. I ran out like a crazy woman (not so much acting like one but feeling like one, lol) and asked my daughter's friend to kindly walk the dog back home and alert the owner that he was wandering the neigborhood because she lives across the street from them. I immediately had my daughter wash hands, arms and had her change clothes and friend to go home. I'm sure there was no danger at this time but boy did it worry me regardless.

Hope your pup is ok.

Lacy's Mom · 10-29-2006, 08:01 PM

They just called they are going to transfer the 6 pound "parvo" poodle to my vet in the morning so at least I will feel better about my vet's opinion and he can make a more informed decision about Rowdy. They said Rowdy ate his dinner just fine and his stools are still perfect in color and consistency.

I did find some information on research done on the vaccine I gave, Intervet Proguard 5. It is a high titer vaccine meaning that supposedly it has enough of the stuff that triggers the immunity to even have some left over after the maternal antibodies destroy the majority of it (if they are still in the pup) to produce antibodies to give immunity. The research showed that 90/100 puppies produced antibodies after given the vaccine at 9 weeks of age so at 10 weeks the numbers would even go up slightly more.

I guess I still have a lot to learn about vaccines - it was "by accident" that I gave a high titer (Schering Plough Galaxy is another high titer) vaccine. I was always careful to get those without lepto or corona and avoided Fort Dodge products because of recent bad publicity and recalls (something about their rabies vaccine giving dogs rabies), but thought they were pretty much equal just different manufacturers.

Please keep praying that Rowdy stays healthy and also for the poodle. I will find out her name tomorrow so I can stop calling her the "parvo" dog.

ButterflyYorkie · 10-29-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lacy's Mom

They just called they are going to transfer the 6 pound "parvo" poodle to my vet in the morning so at least I will feel better about my vet's opinion and he can make a more informed decision about Rowdy. They said Rowdy ate his dinner just fine and his stools are still perfect in color and consistency.

I did find some information on research done on the vaccine I gave, Intervet Proguard 5. It is a high titer vaccine meaning that supposedly it has enough of the stuff that triggers the immunity to even have some left over after the maternal antibodies destroy the majority of it (if they are still in the pup) to produce antibodies to give immunity. The research showed that 90/100 puppies produced antibodies after given the vaccine at 9 weeks of age so at 10 weeks the numbers would even go up slightly more.

I guess I still have a lot to learn about vaccines - it was "by accident" that I gave a high titer (Schering Plough Galaxy is another high titer) vaccine. I was always careful to get those without lepto or corona and avoided Fort Dodge products because of recent bad publicity and recalls (something about their rabies vaccine giving dogs rabies), but thought they were pretty much equal just different manufacturers.

Please keep praying that Rowdy stays healthy and also for the poodle. I will find out her name tomorrow so I can stop calling her the "parvo" dog.

Will keep him in our prayers. "All our yorkie friends" at the end of every prayer. A VERY special someone out there knows exactly what I mean by this.

Best wishes to you and Rowdy and the poodle,

Lacy's Mom · 10-31-2006, 07:39 PM

Started the puppy on that homeopathic Parvaid and Vibractra Plus from Amber Technologies. It's was just under a 100 bucks to have it overnighted, but so far so good. A soldier bought the puppy for his girlfriend before leaving for Iraq and she doesn't have the money to hospitalize the puppy, if necessary, so I paid for the Parvaid and will pay for hospitalization, if needed. Talked to my vet on what to expect for the costs and he said $19.00 for iv and antibiotic treatment per day from 6 in the morning to 6 in the evening and then take him home at night or $60.00 per day for 24 hour care. I just love my vet he is so reasonable. The dog that has parvo is her roomate's dog and it looks like she is going to make it - began eating without vomiting today. The dog is now with my vet, but her bills for 3 days of iv before taking her to my vet are almost $1,500.00!

doortego · 10-31-2006, 07:44 PM

Is Rowdy sick now or is this just trying to stave off the infection before it gets started? Hope all is going well. It is nice to hear of a breeder trying so hard to help someone in this situation.

Lacy's Mom · 10-31-2006, 07:50 PM

So far no symptoms, still acting Rowdy and eating well, but this is suppose to prevent them from coming down with it and also help if they do come down with it.

The Vibactrin Plus is basically a combination of natural antibiotics and the Parvaid is a combination of immune system boosters and stomach settling herbs. We are also giving 1/4 teaspoon of beef liver every 3 hours because it is suppose to rid the body of toxins.

Here's the site - it has some very detailed information for treating parvo and has a really good success rate from what I hear. Take a look and bookmark the site in case you ever know of anyone who needs the information.

www.ambertech.com

Lacy's Mom · 10-31-2006, 07:55 PM

Don't pat me on the back quite yet - I got $800 for the puppy so I am still $700 ahead at this point. I'm sure a lot of breeders would say it's not their problem, but my conscience wouldn't let me do that.

Lacy's Mom · 11-01-2006, 05:59 PM

Rowdy is still doing well today, playing normally and eating well. His bowel movements are a little soft, but not frequent (only two today), no vomiting so it looks like he will probably have a light case, if anything, but we are still not out of danger yet. The other dog is continuing to improve.

Lacy's Mom · 11-06-2006, 10:55 AM

I think I can definitely say the puppy is going to be just fine - stools are back to normal. At one point he did have one bowel movement that contained blood, but never stopped eating or acted sick. Don't know if the natural antibiotics and immune boosters (Parvaid and Vibactra Plus) kept him from getting it or if the first vaccine was effective in building antibodies against parvo. We are going to keep him on the natural treatment for another 2 months since the other dog will still be shedding the virus for up to two months in her feces.

10-29-2006, 12:02 PM	#1
Lacy's Mom YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 2,931	Need 2nd,3rd,4th,5th, etc. opinions ASAP This concerns one of my puppies that has went to a new home: I recommend vaccines at 10, 14 and 18 weeks Puppy Born 7-26-06 October 3rd - given first vaccine (combo no lepto no corona) at 10 weeks He will be 14 weeks on October 31st Exposed to parvo in same house almost a week ago. The parvo stricken dog is in the hospital on i.v. and the vet can't say for sure it's parvo????? Not my vet, but doesn't sound right to me. Rowdy, my puppy shows no signs, no lethargy, no soft stools, no vomiting, perfectly healthy. I think he should get his 2nd vaccine today, but the vet tech told them he shouldn't?????? They are taking my advice and on their way over so I can give vaccine. Am I wrong - I don't like anything they are telling me about their vet so I don't trust any advice their being given, but would like some more opinions. 20 years ago, I had a litter exposed to parvo and the vet had me bring them all in for a vaccine saying if they did contract it it would be a lighter case, but that was 20 years ago. They did get parvo, but were never hospitalized. I just forced fed Pedialyte with a nasal bulb aspirator every hour around the clock and in about 3 weeks they all started eating and drinking again on their own.

10-29-2006, 12:20 PM	#2
annaschaben YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nebraska Posts: 532	Tough call. If he was exposed to Parvo getting a vaccine today won't prevent him from getting it from the prior exposure. I don't know about making it a lighter case or not. What does your current vet say? Why don't you give the shots at 6,8,10,&12 weeks? That way the pups can have at least two shots before they go to new homes. __________________ Anna & Roxy

10-29-2006, 07:16 PM	#7
ButterflyYorkie YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NC Posts: 736	Oh man Lacy's Mom this is a tough call and I'm sorry this is happening. I too was (am) concerned about over-vaccinating. I give my first vaccine at 8 wks. I guess this is good evidence here that even though there are always risks with vaccinating it's situations like you've mentioned that is why we must. The mess is out there and our pups can very easily be exposed like in your baby's case. Good luck to your puppy. I hope it doesn't contract anything. Hopefully the first vaccine will aid in it's immunity. And I would have done exactly as you did... gave the second if it was due as long as the pup was showing no signs and in good health. I hope it turns out ok! There is a person about a half mile up my street who raises english setters. I caught wind that there was a corona infection going on with his dogs back in April. Since I no longer give a corona vaccine you can imagine how I had my gang under lock and key even though my dogs have no contact with his. One of his older pups that a neigbor on up the street ended up getting wandered down to my house about a week ago. I look outside and my daughter and her friend are on the swing set slowly swinging this pup on their lap on the double seater swing. I ran out like a crazy woman (not so much acting like one but feeling like one, lol) and asked my daughter's friend to kindly walk the dog back home and alert the owner that he was wandering the neigborhood because she lives across the street from them. I immediately had my daughter wash hands, arms and had her change clothes and friend to go home. I'm sure there was no danger at this time but boy did it worry me regardless. Hope your pup is ok. Last edited by ButterflyYorkie; 10-29-2006 at 07:20 PM.

10-29-2006, 03:12 PM	#4
Lacy's Mom YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 2,931	Just visited with the puppy. He is showing no signs at all. We called him Rowdy and the name still fits! I just talked to my vet and he was honest in saying there wasn't really a correct answer we could only speculate. He thinks not to give the vaccine because they lower immunity and may make him more susceptible to the virus, whether its parvo, campylobacter or something else. He didn't feel that a vaccine given at this point could prevent or lessen the virus because it takes time after the vaccination is given to build immunity. He feels that we have a good chance that the last vaccine given was effective in building immunity since the puppy is showing no signs, but incubation period has been known to be as long as 15 days, but not usually in puppies. He then says, if the dog doesn't have parvo then we would be better to give the vaccine. I wish I knew if the dog even had parvo. She is over a year and had her annual booster in June. I can't see how it could be parvo, but I know "vaccinated" dogs have come down with what was diagnosed as parvo. She has smelly bloody diarrhea, low white blood cell count, vomiting, but the no fever, low positive on the parvo test and being vaccinated puzzles me - I'm thinking possibly campylobacter. They called the emergency clinic and they said $19 to $21 for a campy test so I am hoping they do that - in fact, I need to call them and offer to pay for it - if it came back as Campy it would be worth the $20.00 to me to know what we are dealing with and would also help their dog since treatment for parvo and campy are very different.

10-29-2006, 03:40 PM	#5
doortego Little Bit & Buttons Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 2,098	If it is parvo, would the puppy be better off taken out of the house where it was?

10-29-2006, 04:26 PM	#6
Lacy's Mom YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 2,931	I was wondering the same thing. I asked if she had a friend that didn't own any dogs, but she said no. I can't think of anyone either who wants to open their house to a possible parvo exposure even if they don't have any dogs. Of course, if they don't have a dog and like them they are planning on getting a dog at some point. I even thought about taking the dog back temporarily, but I have three. They're all vaccinated, but if the virus can live in the house for up to a year or more then I will be exposing my house which will have future babies. We talked about it. They have thrown out all feed dishes, bedding, bleached what they could and used something called Parvasol on everything else. We decided since "Rowdy" has already been in extremely close contact with the other dog then he is already exposed and really can't get more exposed, hopefully. I've been doing reading on Campy sounds like it probably isn't because the incubation is very short, especially for puppies so Rowdy would have probably come down with it quickly. I did find places where it said two dogs however can be kenneled together and one not come down with it even though it is extremely contagious????? Too many questions and not enough definite answers!!!!!

10-29-2006, 08:01 PM	#8
Lacy's Mom YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 2,931	They just called they are going to transfer the 6 pound "parvo" poodle to my vet in the morning so at least I will feel better about my vet's opinion and he can make a more informed decision about Rowdy. They said Rowdy ate his dinner just fine and his stools are still perfect in color and consistency. I did find some information on research done on the vaccine I gave, Intervet Proguard 5. It is a high titer vaccine meaning that supposedly it has enough of the stuff that triggers the immunity to even have some left over after the maternal antibodies destroy the majority of it (if they are still in the pup) to produce antibodies to give immunity. The research showed that 90/100 puppies produced antibodies after given the vaccine at 9 weeks of age so at 10 weeks the numbers would even go up slightly more. I guess I still have a lot to learn about vaccines - it was "by accident" that I gave a high titer (Schering Plough Galaxy is another high titer) vaccine. I was always careful to get those without lepto or corona and avoided Fort Dodge products because of recent bad publicity and recalls (something about their rabies vaccine giving dogs rabies), but thought they were pretty much equal just different manufacturers. Please keep praying that Rowdy stays healthy and also for the poodle. I will find out her name tomorrow so I can stop calling her the "parvo" dog.

10-31-2006, 07:39 PM	#10
Lacy's Mom YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 2,931	Started the puppy on that homeopathic Parvaid and Vibractra Plus from Amber Technologies. It's was just under a 100 bucks to have it overnighted, but so far so good. A soldier bought the puppy for his girlfriend before leaving for Iraq and she doesn't have the money to hospitalize the puppy, if necessary, so I paid for the Parvaid and will pay for hospitalization, if needed. Talked to my vet on what to expect for the costs and he said $19.00 for iv and antibiotic treatment per day from 6 in the morning to 6 in the evening and then take him home at night or $60.00 per day for 24 hour care. I just love my vet he is so reasonable. The dog that has parvo is her roomate's dog and it looks like she is going to make it - began eating without vomiting today. The dog is now with my vet, but her bills for 3 days of iv before taking her to my vet are almost $1,500.00!

10-31-2006, 07:44 PM	#11
doortego Little Bit & Buttons Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 2,098	Is Rowdy sick now or is this just trying to stave off the infection before it gets started? Hope all is going well. It is nice to hear of a breeder trying so hard to help someone in this situation.

10-31-2006, 07:50 PM	#12
Lacy's Mom YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 2,931	So far no symptoms, still acting Rowdy and eating well, but this is suppose to prevent them from coming down with it and also help if they do come down with it. The Vibactrin Plus is basically a combination of natural antibiotics and the Parvaid is a combination of immune system boosters and stomach settling herbs. We are also giving 1/4 teaspoon of beef liver every 3 hours because it is suppose to rid the body of toxins. Here's the site - it has some very detailed information for treating parvo and has a really good success rate from what I hear. Take a look and bookmark the site in case you ever know of anyone who needs the information. www.ambertech.com

10-31-2006, 07:55 PM	#13
Lacy's Mom YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 2,931	Don't pat me on the back quite yet - I got $800 for the puppy so I am still $700 ahead at this point. I'm sure a lot of breeders would say it's not their problem, but my conscience wouldn't let me do that.

11-01-2006, 05:59 PM	#14
Lacy's Mom YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 2,931	Rowdy is still doing well today, playing normally and eating well. His bowel movements are a little soft, but not frequent (only two today), no vomiting so it looks like he will probably have a light case, if anything, but we are still not out of danger yet. The other dog is continuing to improve.

11-06-2006, 10:55 AM	#15
Lacy's Mom YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: El Paso, Texas Posts: 2,931	I think I can definitely say the puppy is going to be just fine - stools are back to normal. At one point he did have one bowel movement that contained blood, but never stopped eating or acted sick. Don't know if the natural antibiotics and immune boosters (Parvaid and Vibactra Plus) kept him from getting it or if the first vaccine was effective in building antibodies against parvo. We are going to keep him on the natural treatment for another 2 months since the other dog will still be shedding the virus for up to two months in her feces.