Breeder Responsibilities? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

twinkletoes · 03-03-2006, 10:23 AM

My name is Amy Yake and I have run into a dilemma. I adopted a Yorkshire Terrier from a breeder in Houston, TX on 10/27/2005. I paid $2,000.00 for her and another $300.00 to have her flown to Rapid City, SD. The Yorkie puppy, whom I named Zoe, was 5 months old and weighed 1.5 pounds on the date of shipment from Houston, TX.
About two months later on 12/21/2006 Zoe was having loose stools (not quite diarrhea) but acting normal, playing, barking, eating, drinking ect. On 12/22/2006 her stools had gotten a touch worse. In turn, I called a veterinarian clinic in Sheridan, WY after hours for advice. They advised me to put her on a bland diet of rice, plain chicken, ect. The night of the 22nd I boiled chicken and rinsed off the fat, then I mashed it up into a mush with a fork to make it easier for her to eat, she loved it, I fed her this every half hour until about 4:00am, at this time she had bouts of watery diarrhea (I fell asleep). I got up with her on the morning of the 23rd and she wasn't wanting to eat or drink and she was still having diarrhea and now vomiting, consequently I took her to the vet. here in Gillette, WY. They were unable to find what would be causing her to be ill and injected water under her skin to hydrate her and recommended a bland diet so I took her home. With no improvement and me wanting to catch anything before it was too late I had her tested for parvo on a second visit on the 23rd, the results were negative. The vet. clinic recommended yogurt and she ate that and seemed to be a little better and the vomiting had stopped, she was fed every 3 hours to keep her strength up but, the last feeding time (around 8:00am 12/24/2006) she was found unresponsive on her back and wet on her back half, almost like she had a seizure and tossed threw her shallow water dish. I rushed her to the vet in hopes that he could do something, anything to help. Zoe died a half an hour later and I was sent home to decide what to do next. Because of Christmas the clinic wasn't open till the 26th, this day I had Zoe sent in for an autopsy in hopes to find out WHY. The autopsy report didn't give any answer, her heart, liver, and kidneys looked fine, although, since she had been frozen before the autopsy the results weren't 100%.
I had Zoe for about 2 months of her life, I had given her prime care, love, and protection during that time. My heart breaks when I think about her not being here with me, I think about her every day. I'm not sure what the breeders responsibilities would be in a situation like this. My vet couldn't believe her age when I told him because of her tiny size, I don't know if her size had anything to do with her passing or not, I'm sure it didn't help in fighting off illness. I sometimes wonder if the breeder knew this was in her near future. My vet had checked her back legs upon my request for "loose knees" (because they would pop every time I would pick her up and hold her against my chest) and he told me that her right knee was most likely out of place more than it was in place and that she had a bad case of luxating patella's on both knees, more in the right knee. The breeder never told me anything about her knee problems and prier to Zoe's trip to the vet. I had emailed the breeder questioning the popping coming from Zoe's knees and she emailed me back stating that "all small dogs have popping knees". In this email I also question the breeder about Zoë's two rows of teeth that she failed to mention to me ( I had an appointment for her to be spayed and her baby teeth removed in Sheridan, WY on 12/29/2005). I would be grateful for any advice you may have.
Thank You for your time, Amy Yake

www.twinkletoesgrooming.com
twinkle@bresnan.net

Zeus' Mom · 03-03-2006, 11:16 AM

I am sorry that I can't offer any advice, but do want to say that I am so very sorry for your loss. I hope you can find answers and some sort of closure. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

hle_625 · 03-03-2006, 11:38 AM

I am so sorry to hear about your loss! I will keep you in my prayers. Having 2 rows of teeth is pretty common from what I hear in these little guys. My Chloe has 2 rows of teeth but will get them taken out when I take her to get spayed. It kind of depends on the contract that you and your breeder had. Did she have a 1 yr guarantee or anything like that? If not I dont think that there is really anything that you can do about it. But I could be wrong.

red98vett · 03-03-2006, 11:50 AM

OH NO ! I'm SO SO SORRY ! That poor poor baby and how heartbroken you must be...

Did anyone test her for Coccidia ? that will cause the symptoms you described....and it's NOT true that all small dogs have popping knees ..this breeder totally mislead you and that is LP an ailment of yorkies.... but by no means do they all have this problem.

Having double teeth is common and usually if the baby teeth do not fall out on their own - they have to be pulled so this really isn't the breeders fault....her adult teeth were coming in that's all...

I know finding out could help you for the future if you decide to get another yorkie and I surely hope this breeder will offer you another one ....even though you are still hurting from her death.

I think the vets may have a play in her death also if they didn't test her for parasites.

This is truly a sad thing for you and your puppy to go thru.....

May I ask the breeder since I'm in Houston ? I may be looking in the future and would like to avoid this one at all costs.

I would also report her to the BBB and the AKC....No breeder should be telling people what that breeder told you.

and again...I'm very sorry for your loss....rest in Peace little Zoe....

feminvstr · 03-03-2006, 11:55 AM

oh my what a sad story did your vet check her glucose levels? Because of her size that would have been the first thing I would have had checked then the liver. If her glucose was at very low levels this was likely the cause of her death. Tiny yorkies need to be watched very closely for they can go down in a minute when their sugar level deplete known as Hypoglycemia.

Here is a bit of info on it:
Transient Juvenile Hypoglycemia, which is brought on by fasting, is common in Toy dog breeds, such as Yorkshire Terrier, Toy Poodle, Pomeranian and other Toy dog breeds, and usually seen in puppies 5 to 16 weeks of age. Stress, low body temperature, poor nutrition, sudden change in feed, water and schedule patterns, infections, and premature birth may precipitate the onset of hypoglycemia. Some puppies, bred exclusively for tiny size ("teacup Yorkies", "teacup Chihuahua"), are even more predisposed to Transient Juvenile Hypoglycemia since insufficient muscle mass may make it difficult for the body to store the glucose and keep its blood sugar properly regulated.

Most common clinical signs of hypoglycemia are drowsiness, shivering, collapsing, disorientation, seizures, listlessness, depression, muscle weakness and tremors. Lee Weston, author of the article about Hypoglycemia (Pomeranian Club of Canada) says that "the entire sequence of clinical signs is not always seen, so close observation of your pet and knowing when your dog is going into a distressed state can mean the difference between life and death of your dog. Immediate treatment by a veterinarian is imperative, as recurrence of, or prolonged attacks, can cause permanent damage to the brain."

It has been proven experimentally that eight hours fasting in a Yorkshire terrier puppy can result in marked variation of blood glucose, showing both hypo- en hyperglycaemia.

Frequent feeding of a high-energy, protein-rich diet to both mother and puppies may prevent toy-breed puppies from developing hypoglycemia and may help them to overcome periods with a decreased intake of energy.

The teeth shouldnt have been a problem sometimes it can take up to 6-8 months of age for the baby teeth to fall out and adult teeth to come in, at 5 months I am sure she was losing teeth and would have continued to do so your vet should have delayed the spaying appointment until most if not all teeth had fallen out, sometimes there are pesky baby teeth that just dont come out so its best for the vet to extract.

The popping knees are known as patellar luxation, the breeder should have informed you about this if your little one was shipped with this condition. But if it appeared after you had her it could have been caused from jumping or failing off something in her new living environment.

I hope this helps, again I am so sorry for your loss.

yorkiemom1970 · 03-03-2006, 12:03 PM

I'm very sorry to hear about this. She was a very beautiful little girl. Your breeder does have obligations to you if it was in a written contract. For that kind of money, I am assuming (hoping) that there was one. You did the best you could for her and I hope you can find comfort in that. Best wishes,

twinkletoes · 03-03-2006, 12:03 PM

I am so sorry to hear about your loss! I will keep you in my prayers. Having 2 rows of teeth is pretty common from what I hear in these little guys. My Chloe has 2 rows of teeth but will get them taken out when I take her to get spayed. It kind of depends on the contract that you and your breeder had. Did she have a 1 yr guarantee or anything like that? If not I dont think that there is really anything that you can do about it. But I could be wrong.
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Yes, she does have a one year guarantee that would cover geneitc defects. I know now that it is comon for these little ones to have double rows of teeth, my whole thing is that the breeder never informed me that she had them and that I would need to take her to a vet to have them removed (more money). Not that spending money (that I didn't have... lol) on my little "Bean" was a problem, it is the whole idea that she wasn't honest with me. And more importantly, she never said anything about her having "loose knees" (which the vet. said she would need surgery to correct them) and she had to of known because she kept Zoe for the first 5 months of her life. I'm just so sad and dissapointed, I feel like I was set up for a broken heart, it's not fair. Thank you so very much for your reply, it feels good to know people will listen! Amy

yorkiemom1970 · 03-03-2006, 12:05 PM

Hmmm, I'm looking and that puppy looks familar. And Houston TX you said? Not saying that I've seen your paticular puppy anywhere, but I do know of a breeder in that area with that type of yorkie. Hmmm is anyone else on my brain wave here?

shecass · 03-03-2006, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinkletoes

I am so sorry to hear about your loss! I will keep you in my prayers. Having 2 rows of teeth is pretty common from what I hear in these little guys. My Chloe has 2 rows of teeth but will get them taken out when I take her to get spayed. It kind of depends on the contract that you and your breeder had. Did she have a 1 yr guarantee or anything like that? If not I dont think that there is really anything that you can do about it. But I could be wrong.
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Yes, she does have a one year guarantee that would cover geneitc defects. I know now that it is comon for these little ones to have double rows of teeth, my whole thing is that the breeder never informed me that she had them and that I would need to take her to a vet to have them removed (more money). Not that spending money (that I didn't have... lol) on my little "Bean" was a problem, it is the whole idea that she wasn't honest with me. And more importantly, she never said anything about her having "loose knees" (which the vet. said she would need surgery to correct them) and she had to of known because she kept Zoe for the first 5 months of her life. I'm just so sad and dissapointed, I feel like I was set up for a broken heart, it's not fair. Thank you so very much for your reply, it feels good to know people will listen! Amy

Since you have a health guarantee to cover genetic defects I would most definitely see what I could do about recouping my money or whatever is stated in the contract, even if I had to see an attorney. She outright lied to you. I have 2 yorkies and their knees do not pop.

I'm so sorry for everything that you had to go through with your baby. No amount of money will bring her back or make the pain go away. Hopefully it will keep this from happening to someone else.

HIrwin · 03-03-2006, 12:18 PM

What a sad, sad thing for both Zoe and you. Please accept my deepest sympathy.

I really do not know anything about this but on recent posts I have read about people who were questioning breeder responsibilities and I recall state lemon laws being mentioned as a means of trying to hold a breeder to their end of the deal. It sounds as if the most difficult thing is for you to prove that whatever the cause of death was would qualify under the genetic abnormalities since the autopsy was basically inconclusive.

I wish I knew more about this so I could offer more help but I'm sure there are plenty of breeders who will respond after reading this and offer advice as to whether or not you have any recourse in this situation.

Good luck to you.

red98vett · 03-03-2006, 12:19 PM

She does look familar and she sure is tiny....I also thought of the Breeder I got my Chanel from...She also came to me with coccidia and the breeder denied even knowing what it was. She knew exactly what Chanel had....and denied it.

She could have just told me when I called her in a panic about poor Chanel after she got the runs ...and it got worse instead of better.....Her answer was it was stress from the new home. Not so !!! We were in the ER at 2am on a Sunday night. Chanel easily could have died that night or the next day if not treated and her breeder didn't care a bit.

We were very lucky.....and this story just breaks my heart hearing the lack of vet care...plus the severe LP.

I really think the breeder should be obligated to give her a new puppy since the LP was that severe at such a young age and she didn't disclose it.

twinkletoes...I don't mean to discuss your loss this way but it just seems the breeder AND the vets did your Zoe wrong....I know you must be reeling and I really am sorry for your loss....

I did send you a pm and would really be interested in who this breeder was if you could share.

whispersmom2 · 03-03-2006, 12:47 PM

What a sweet baby she was.. One can never know exactly what another is going thru when grieving for a lost little soul, but I have lost 2 babies recently and it hurts so much!!! Your heart will heal some with time, but it does take a while. There might be another little one in your future but I bet you fly or drive to get that baby...
I don't know that there is any problem with posting the name of the breeder, but if there is not, I for one would like to know. I get inquiries all the time for names of responsible breeders in different areas and it really helps who NOT to refer to. But, I do understand if you feel you cannot say in public.
You will be in our prayers and we all are here for you when you need us.

twinkletoes · 03-03-2006, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkiemom1970

Hmmm, I'm looking and that puppy looks familar. And Houston TX you said? Not saying that I've seen your paticular puppy anywhere, but I do know of a breeder in that area with that type of yorkie. Hmmm is anyone else on my brain wave here?

Linda Golden is the breeders name and this is her website Http://www.geocities.com/ldgolden.geo/puppies.htm I just got off the phone with her and she told me that she would ship another puppy to me out of a litter she had right now for $500.00, this puppy is going to be around 6 pounds. I asked for pictures and she said "no, not right now" I asked why and she said "well because my camera is broke and the puppy is only 4 weeks old, maybe in a couple of weeks". I told her that I am sending her the autospsy in the mail to day and she replyed that, "that way my vet. can take a look at them too". Do you know her?

YorkieRini · 03-03-2006, 12:49 PM

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your little Zoe.

If this breeder has any kind of heart they will work with you and turn this tragic ending into a happy one, by offering you another puppy.

I wish you only the best and thank you so much for sharing Zoe's story. It will be helpful for others.

Hugs,
Irene

red98vett · 03-03-2006, 12:52 PM

I've heard of her. I had contacted her back before I got my Chanel but she didn't answer my emails and I moved on....but that's great she will do this - only thing is...I feel there should not be an additional charge...but that's just me with my opinion only.

YOU need to do what you feel is best and I wish you luck ....and also my condolences. Losing a puppy has to be one of the worst hurts.....

03-03-2006, 11:16 AM	#2
Zeus' Mom Enja's Mom too! Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,765	I am sorry that I can't offer any advice, but do want to say that I am so very sorry for your loss. I hope you can find answers and some sort of closure. You are in my thoughts and prayers. __________________ Farrah, Zeus, Enja & Riley

03-03-2006, 11:38 AM	#3
hle_625 Donating YT 4000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 4,637	I am so sorry to hear about your loss! I will keep you in my prayers. Having 2 rows of teeth is pretty common from what I hear in these little guys. My Chloe has 2 rows of teeth but will get them taken out when I take her to get spayed. It kind of depends on the contract that you and your breeder had. Did she have a 1 yr guarantee or anything like that? If not I dont think that there is really anything that you can do about it. But I could be wrong. __________________ Heather, Chloe Lynn and Daisy May

03-03-2006, 11:50 AM	#4
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	OH NO ! I'm SO SO SORRY ! That poor poor baby and how heartbroken you must be... Did anyone test her for Coccidia ? that will cause the symptoms you described....and it's NOT true that all small dogs have popping knees ..this breeder totally mislead you and that is LP an ailment of yorkies.... but by no means do they all have this problem. Having double teeth is common and usually if the baby teeth do not fall out on their own - they have to be pulled so this really isn't the breeders fault....her adult teeth were coming in that's all... I know finding out could help you for the future if you decide to get another yorkie and I surely hope this breeder will offer you another one ....even though you are still hurting from her death. I think the vets may have a play in her death also if they didn't test her for parasites. This is truly a sad thing for you and your puppy to go thru..... May I ask the breeder since I'm in Houston ? I may be looking in the future and would like to avoid this one at all costs. I would also report her to the BBB and the AKC....No breeder should be telling people what that breeder told you. and again...I'm very sorry for your loss....rest in Peace little Zoe.... __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE! Last edited by red98vett; 03-03-2006 at 11:54 AM.

03-03-2006, 11:55 AM	#5
feminvstr Donating YT 4000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 4,405	oh my what a sad story did your vet check her glucose levels? Because of her size that would have been the first thing I would have had checked then the liver. If her glucose was at very low levels this was likely the cause of her death. Tiny yorkies need to be watched very closely for they can go down in a minute when their sugar level deplete known as Hypoglycemia. Here is a bit of info on it: Transient Juvenile Hypoglycemia, which is brought on by fasting, is common in Toy dog breeds, such as Yorkshire Terrier, Toy Poodle, Pomeranian and other Toy dog breeds, and usually seen in puppies 5 to 16 weeks of age. Stress, low body temperature, poor nutrition, sudden change in feed, water and schedule patterns, infections, and premature birth may precipitate the onset of hypoglycemia. Some puppies, bred exclusively for tiny size ("teacup Yorkies", "teacup Chihuahua"), are even more predisposed to Transient Juvenile Hypoglycemia since insufficient muscle mass may make it difficult for the body to store the glucose and keep its blood sugar properly regulated. Most common clinical signs of hypoglycemia are drowsiness, shivering, collapsing, disorientation, seizures, listlessness, depression, muscle weakness and tremors. Lee Weston, author of the article about Hypoglycemia (Pomeranian Club of Canada) says that "the entire sequence of clinical signs is not always seen, so close observation of your pet and knowing when your dog is going into a distressed state can mean the difference between life and death of your dog. Immediate treatment by a veterinarian is imperative, as recurrence of, or prolonged attacks, can cause permanent damage to the brain." It has been proven experimentally that eight hours fasting in a Yorkshire terrier puppy can result in marked variation of blood glucose, showing both hypo- en hyperglycaemia. Frequent feeding of a high-energy, protein-rich diet to both mother and puppies may prevent toy-breed puppies from developing hypoglycemia and may help them to overcome periods with a decreased intake of energy. The teeth shouldnt have been a problem sometimes it can take up to 6-8 months of age for the baby teeth to fall out and adult teeth to come in, at 5 months I am sure she was losing teeth and would have continued to do so your vet should have delayed the spaying appointment until most if not all teeth had fallen out, sometimes there are pesky baby teeth that just dont come out so its best for the vet to extract. The popping knees are known as patellar luxation, the breeder should have informed you about this if your little one was shipped with this condition. But if it appeared after you had her it could have been caused from jumping or failing off something in her new living environment. I hope this helps, again I am so sorry for your loss. __________________ Kimberly

03-03-2006, 12:18 PM	#10
HIrwin Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 61	Breeder Responsibilities What a sad, sad thing for both Zoe and you. Please accept my deepest sympathy. I really do not know anything about this but on recent posts I have read about people who were questioning breeder responsibilities and I recall state lemon laws being mentioned as a means of trying to hold a breeder to their end of the deal. It sounds as if the most difficult thing is for you to prove that whatever the cause of death was would qualify under the genetic abnormalities since the autopsy was basically inconclusive. I wish I knew more about this so I could offer more help but I'm sure there are plenty of breeders who will respond after reading this and offer advice as to whether or not you have any recourse in this situation. Good luck to you.

03-03-2006, 12:03 PM	#6
yorkiemom1970 No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,947	I'm very sorry to hear about this. She was a very beautiful little girl. Your breeder does have obligations to you if it was in a written contract. For that kind of money, I am assuming (hoping) that there was one. You did the best you could for her and I hope you can find comfort in that. Best wishes,

03-03-2006, 12:03 PM	#7
twinkletoes Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Gillette, Wyoming Posts: 28	I am so sorry to hear about your loss! I will keep you in my prayers. Having 2 rows of teeth is pretty common from what I hear in these little guys. My Chloe has 2 rows of teeth but will get them taken out when I take her to get spayed. It kind of depends on the contract that you and your breeder had. Did she have a 1 yr guarantee or anything like that? If not I dont think that there is really anything that you can do about it. But I could be wrong. __________________ HEATHER, CHLOE, AND DAISY hle_625 View Public Profile Send a private message to hle_625 Find More Posts by hle_625 Add hle_625 to Your Buddy List Yes, she does have a one year guarantee that would cover geneitc defects. I know now that it is comon for these little ones to have double rows of teeth, my whole thing is that the breeder never informed me that she had them and that I would need to take her to a vet to have them removed (more money). Not that spending money (that I didn't have... lol) on my little "Bean" was a problem, it is the whole idea that she wasn't honest with me. And more importantly, she never said anything about her having "loose knees" (which the vet. said she would need surgery to correct them) and she had to of known because she kept Zoe for the first 5 months of her life. I'm just so sad and dissapointed, I feel like I was set up for a broken heart, it's not fair. Thank you so very much for your reply, it feels good to know people will listen! Amy

03-03-2006, 12:05 PM	#8
yorkiemom1970 No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,947	Hmmm, I'm looking and that puppy looks familar. And Houston TX you said? Not saying that I've seen your paticular puppy anywhere, but I do know of a breeder in that area with that type of yorkie. Hmmm is anyone else on my brain wave here?

03-03-2006, 12:19 PM	#11
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	She does look familar and she sure is tiny....I also thought of the Breeder I got my Chanel from...She also came to me with coccidia and the breeder denied even knowing what it was. She knew exactly what Chanel had....and denied it. She could have just told me when I called her in a panic about poor Chanel after she got the runs ...and it got worse instead of better.....Her answer was it was stress from the new home. Not so !!! We were in the ER at 2am on a Sunday night. Chanel easily could have died that night or the next day if not treated and her breeder didn't care a bit. We were very lucky.....and this story just breaks my heart hearing the lack of vet care...plus the severe LP. I really think the breeder should be obligated to give her a new puppy since the LP was that severe at such a young age and she didn't disclose it. twinkletoes...I don't mean to discuss your loss this way but it just seems the breeder AND the vets did your Zoe wrong....I know you must be reeling and I really am sorry for your loss.... I did send you a pm and would really be interested in who this breeder was if you could share. __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE!

03-03-2006, 12:47 PM	#12
whispersmom2 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MD Posts: 2,985	What a sweet baby she was.. One can never know exactly what another is going thru when grieving for a lost little soul, but I have lost 2 babies recently and it hurts so much!!! Your heart will heal some with time, but it does take a while. There might be another little one in your future but I bet you fly or drive to get that baby... I don't know that there is any problem with posting the name of the breeder, but if there is not, I for one would like to know. I get inquiries all the time for names of responsible breeders in different areas and it really helps who NOT to refer to. But, I do understand if you feel you cannot say in public. You will be in our prayers and we all are here for you when you need us.

03-03-2006, 12:49 PM	#14
YorkieRini Livin' La Yorkie Local Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,607	Deepest sympathy :( I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your little Zoe. If this breeder has any kind of heart they will work with you and turn this tragic ending into a happy one, by offering you another puppy. I wish you only the best and thank you so much for sharing Zoe's story. It will be helpful for others. Hugs, Irene

03-03-2006, 12:52 PM	#15
red98vett Yorkie Kisses are the Best! Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Houston TX Posts: 33,590 Blog Entries: 1	I've heard of her. I had contacted her back before I got my Chanel but she didn't answer my emails and I moved on....but that's great she will do this - only thing is...I feel there should not be an additional charge...but that's just me with my opinion only. YOU need to do what you feel is best and I wish you luck ....and also my condolences. Losing a puppy has to be one of the worst hurts..... __________________ Villette, Chanel & Cheri www.DesignsByVillette.net Custom Address Labels and Note Cards using YOUR Photos! Just Click HERE!