Avoiding(?) a 'Little One'

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by YorkieRini

Just to disclose: This is how I prefer to do things.

Of course...the same can be said for all of us. Just food for thought..

[txshopper73]

Stacy...very good!!!!!!

But one has to admit that not all dogs follow this regime. I'm a firm believer...once you think you know it all, something will come along to prove you wrong.

[yorkiemom1970]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

Stacy...very good!!!!!!

But one has to admit that not all dogs follow this regime. I'm a firm believer...once you think you know it all, something will come along to prove you wrong.

I agree. but this is some really good info!

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by sylvan

here I go with the novel again, but I found this an interesting article...and I am too stupid to do links correctly so I'm just copying it here.
2 + 2 + 2 = 10 OR MORE

Jane Barber, DVM, MS, Dipomate ACT

Often bitches are referred to me when they fail to conceive. Their owners are frustrated and abjectly disappointed, but resolutely determined to find out why no puppies are forthcoming. They are often prepared to go to any length to get to the cause, including chromosome analysis and surgical biopsy. Most of the time these tests are not necessary. In my practice, over half of the females presented for work-up of an infertility problem are perfectly normal reproductively. So if these bitches are perfectly normal, why aren’t they pregnant? They aren’t pregnant because their breedings were improperly timed.

The average bitch ovulates about 12 days after the onset of proestrus. The most prominent signs of proestrus onset are vulvar swelling and bloody vulvar discharge. A common rule of thumb is to breed bitches on day 11 and 13 after onset of proestrus. The vast majority of bitches will conceive an average-numbered litter of puppies when bred on these days (to a fertile male). However, some bitches ovulate as early as 3 days or as late as 26 days after proestrus onset. Even taking into account that canine spermatozoa can live in a normal female reproductive tract for at least 5 days, breedings that occur on days 11 and 13 for these early and late ovulators will not result in conception. Remember that while sperm cells are relatively long-lived, oocytes (eggs) remain viable only about 24 hours after they are ready to be fertilized.

Success in breeding early and late ovulating bitches demands that breedings be properly timed, which in turn, demands that the time of ovulation be accurately determined. Early and late ovulating bitches were used as examples to illustrate the importance of accurately timed breedings. There are other breeding situations when ovulation timing should be performed:

When the breeding is being done by AI (artificial insemination).
When bitches experience a “silent estrus” and fail to show standing behavior.
When bitches are to be shipped. It is best to ship bitches after their LH surge to avoid a decrease in LH that might result from the stress of shipment.
When the dog is heavily “booked” so as to avoid sperm cell depletion by over-usage.
When there is a need to accurately predict whelping dates, as in cases of planned Caesarian sections, or cases of previous dystocia (difficult birth), or with any valuable litter. One of the most gut-wrenching decisions a veterinarian has to make is the decision to surgically deliver puppies when no breeding dates or only breeding dates, and not ovulation dates, are known.
Ovulation dates are determined by measuring serum concentrations of progesterone during late proestrus and estrus. Progesterone levels in the bitch begin to rise about 2 days before ovulation. Serum progesterone is <1.0 ng/ml when bitches are not “in heat” and during most of proestrus. Values increase rapidly to >1.0 ng/ml about 2 days before ovulation. Serum progesterone is 4-10 ng/ml when bitches are ovulating. This 2 day interval between the initial rise in progesterone and ovulation represents the first “2” in our equation, “2 + 2 + 2 = 10 or more.”
But our task is not done just because we know when ovulation is taking place. That’s because the bitch has yet another reproductive idiosyncrasy. Unlike other domestic species, which ovulate ova (eggs) as secondary oocytes that are ready for immediate fertilization, the bitch releases ova in a more immature state as primary oocytes. It takes about 48 hours (or 2 days) for these primary oocytes to mature into secondary oocytes and become ready to accept spermatozoa in the fertilization process. This 2 days for oocyte maturation is represents the second “2” in our equation, “2 + 2 + 2 = 10 or more.”

When ovulation does occur, the ova are not all released in an instant of time. It typically takes about 48 hours for all of the ova to be released from the ovary. That’s the rationale for the common practice of breeding dogs twice 2 days apart. This 48 hour or 2 day duration of ovulation, represents the third “2” in our equation “2 + 2 + 2 =10 or more.”

It should be pointed out that serum progesterone concentration measurement is only one tool used for predicting both the time of ovulation and optimal breeding dates. It is prudent to use all available methods for planning a breeding. Other diagnostic tools include vaginal cytology, vaginoscopy, and LH (luteinizing hormone) assays.

Proper timing of ovulation, along with knowledge of canine reproductive physiology and endocrinology, are necessary in managing a successful breeding program. Use progesterone assays to predict when ovulation will occur, understand that canine ova are not ready to be fertilized at the time of ovulation, and do 2 breedings to ensure that rigorous spermatozoa are “ready, willing and able” at the instant each ovum matures to a fertilizable state. That is the way to make “2 + 2 + 2 = 10 or more. . . PUPPIES!”

Jane Barber, DVM, MS, Dipomate ACT

Dr. Barber is board certified in Theriogenology and is a member of the American College of Theriogenologists. She is also certified to perform PennHIP radiographs for evaluation of hip joint laxity. Prior to her graduate training in reproduction, Dr. Barber completed a clinical residency and Master’s degree program in veterinary behavior. She provides behavioral consultation and behavioral modification therapy for pets. Her veterinary practice, Veterinary Specialties at the Lake, is located north of Charlotte in the Lake Norman area.

Thank you for this article. It explains EXACTLY why progestrone testing is important. Reading, reminded me that my vet also does a vaginal smear in addition to the progestrone. I can't emphasize how much smoother things have gone for me since I've incorporated breeding at ONLY the right time has gone for me. Not to say that others that don't 'time' their breedings by doing tests have a harder or more difficult time. But timing is undeniabley more predictable.

This article demonstrates the indepth knowledge that repro specialist's have. I'm sure she is also well versed in genetic and hereditary factors like health defects as well.

Thanks again for the good reading!

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

What would be a reason a breeder woud NOT do progestrone testing?

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

What would be a reason a breeder woud NOT do progestrone testing?

I don't know. I don't know if there is an answer to that? I guess it is just a personal choice for each breeder. I mean, your female can still get pregnant without being in her 'peak,' so it's not like it's absolutely neccessary. For us personally, it was just easier since Cody (our stud) is my father's and doesn't live with me. I just wanted to heed the advice I'd been given and only breed them 2 consecutive days...I needed to know which two days. For some, they may not choose this route and can get the same result. Personal preference, I guess.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I don't know. I don't know if there is an answer to that? I guess it is just a personal choice for each breeder. I mean, your female can still get pregnant without being in her 'peak,' so it's not like it's absolutely neccessary. For us personally, it was just easier since Cody (our stud) is my father's and doesn't live with me. I just wanted to heed the advice I'd been given and only breed them 2 consecutive days...I needed to know which two days. For some, they may not choose this route and can get the same result. Personal preference, I guess.

What methods do you use for planning a breeding if you do not use serum progesterone concentration measurement? Does your vet use vaginal cytology, vaginoscopy, or LH (luteinizing hormone) assays as the article suggests? The reproductive specialist who wrote this article recommended using ALL available methods for planning a breeding. This is why I asked the question about progesterone tests and why a breeder wouldn't do it? Is it expensive, inconvenient....what?

This question is for all breeders not just Misty.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

What methods do you use for planning a breeding if you do not use serum progesterone concentration measurement? Does your vet use vaginal cytology, vaginoscopy, or LH (luteinizing hormone) assays as the article suggests? The reproductive specialist who wrote this article recommended using ALL available methods for planning a breeding. This is why I asked the question about progesterone tests and why a breeder wouldn't do it? Is it expensive, inconvenient....what?

This question is for all breeders not just Misty.

I do use progesterone testing....I thought I already said that.
Refer to my first post. Sorry, I didn't specify what TYPE testing...I really didn't know I would need to go into that much deatil.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I do use progesterone testing....I thought I already said that.
Refer to my first post. Sorry, I didn't specify what TYPE testing...I really didn't know I would need to go into that much deatil.

Oh....OK, I understand the question now. Sorry! Ignore my answer, I thought you were asking me if I did....DUH! Um, plain and simple, we used progesterone and it worked. I was satisified with the results and personally feel like that test was enough for me. Really don't care how many tests this article says to run. I'm sticking w/ what I do now.

[whispersmom2]

Originally Posted by txshopper73

Girl, what's wrong with you???? It's early in the morning!!!!

IMO, I don't know how the theory works since female sperm survives 72 hours and male sperm 24. This is all just what I've heard, though.

Am I missing something about female sperm..Are you saying that if a sperm is male it will die in 24 hours? And female sprem live 72? Can you help me figger out what you mean??
Thanx

[Klavusik]

I am sorry I dont seem to understand the comment on female sperm. As far as I know females have a stored capacity of eggs that are released during ovulation, for what ever period that is that it takes place in dogs. Males on the other hand produce the sperm, which gets implanted into the females egg from which was released from her ovary. Then fertilization takes place. I am just curious about female sperm... I did not know that female dogs had or produced that???