how little is to little - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

PlatinumYorkies · 01-14-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlatinumYorkies

I knew that "breed average" sounded familiar to me..The only place I've seen that is in my Yorkies for Dummies book..here is that exact quote from their website!!!
"Compact and well-proportioned stature: Size and body structure matter. The breed standard stipulates that Yorkies must not be over 7 pounds and, on average, adult Yorkies fall between a petite 5–7 pounds. (Remember, however, that some Yorkies are smaller and some are larger.) In terms of body structure, everything should be in proportion and just, well, fit."

It doesn't quite say breed average..but I guess this is what you mean, Kim..HUH?

http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/Dumm...e/id-2588.html

SoCalyorkiLvr · 01-14-2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlatinumYorkies

I knew that "breed average" sounded familiar to me..The only place I've seen that is in my Yorkies for Dummies book..here is that exact quote from their website!!!
"Compact and well-proportioned stature: Size and body structure matter. The breed standard stipulates that Yorkies must not be over 7 pounds and, on average, adult Yorkies fall between a petite 5–7 pounds. (Remember, however, that some Yorkies are smaller and some are larger.) In terms of body structure, everything should be in proportion and just, well, fit."

It doesn't quite say breed average..but I guess this is what you mean, Kim..HUH?

Yes, thank you for the citation...the "breed average" weight is 5-7 lbs. according to Yorkies for Dummies.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 01-14-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feminvstr

I hope you dont advise them as what to do during a crisis.

See need advice now

Do you ever offer advice to members in emergencies that are not breeding related?

If no one more experienced in an area is available at the time, I would not hesitate to advise in areas in which I have knowledge whether it is from experience or study...it may be...call the Emergency vet or it may be induce vomiting if they ate chocolate or human medicine, or it may be to refer them to the CPR thread, or it may be to tell them about vaccines or what I know about spaying and neutering and I am not a vet, and I am not a breeder, and I am do not show for hobby, but I love yorkshire terriers, I am well sudied, I have experience with four yorkies, I have owned and trained dogs all of my life and I will help anyone in need of help if I feel I can do it with more benefit than harm.

I was once on here when there were not as many experienced breeders here and none online at the moment and a member called in a panic about a mommy giving birth and trying to eat the puppies. I did a quit search on the internet, PM'd YorkieRose and stayed online until someone more experienced came. I mostly just posted vet info I found on the internet and urged her to call the emergency vet. It turned out the mother was just overly aggressive with the umbilical cord and the puppy was fine. I feel that I helped if for no other reason than that I was there with her.

I am sorry that you feel the way you do but I offered no bad advice in this thread. My advice and my citations were accurate.

I use the font changes to get people's attention and make it easier to read when I have a lot of information I am imparting.

BamaFan121s · 01-14-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

See [url]I am sorry that you feel the way you do but I offered no bad advice in this thread. My advice and my citations were accurate.

First off, let me say that I skimmed over the info on the site that you provided and the information is very interesting. I have every intention of reading it when I find the time.
Not to discredit your citations, but although they were accurate, they were not complete (nor were they complete in the document) and are therefore misleading. The site states that in the study, 265 bitches presented were in fact having whelping problems. However, 265 out of how many? 500? 1000? 10,000? We have no way of knowing. For all we know, 265 is a very low percentage. Also, 26% of the 265 found were "smaller than the breed average" so obvoiusly, the chance of their being whelping complications is of course, high...THEY'RE TINIES!
Again, like I said, I found the information interesting, but I do not think, IMO, that enough information has been provided in regards to the study to give anyone anything concrete to base anything on.

red98vett · 01-15-2006, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teresa20051969

my sister has a yorkie that is about 4lbs. she wants to breed her so she has a puppy from her. dou all think it's safe? if it's safe, what size yorkie do you suggest she breed with?

Hey there Teresa....You asked how little is TOO Little ?

MANY of the people here on this site are really great about sharing their breeding experiences ...and as breeders ...they normally steer someone clear of breeding a female - especially a TINY female... just so they can have a puppy by her....

Your sister needs to be aware that she stands a good chance of losing her little yorkie if she decides to go ahead and breed...it's not as easy breeding a yorkie as it is a larger dog....Her yorkie is very small.... so in turn - it's more dangerous. IF she loves her baby - she probably should just go ahead and spay her.

I hope this makes sense and we're ALL here to help if you have more questions...

wnalegria · 01-15-2006, 05:07 AM

Thank you Southern Cal for sharing your article.

The statement that I enjoyed the most was " Advice regarding patients suitability for breed standard viewpoint or the show potential of progeny is best sought from expereinced breeder". Sorry I do not know how to cut and paste so I had to type it in.

As we all now no matter what your point of view - if you dig deep enough you can find a article that will suport your point of view.

JMHO- we do need to read and do research. Take each article for what it is the authors point of view. Some of the articles that I have seen listed here on YT have been good others are rather humerous.

There is a lot to be said on the positive side when you talk with experienced breeders. Folks are correct when they state on here they are not a breeder but IMHO they should also be careful about what they are posting. Reading a article does not mean that it is valid and should be quoted as the path to follow.

I am not a car mechanic- I can read a articles about rebuilding my engine. Sure hope that I do not make myself out as a expert because of what I have been reading. IMHO- you take this reading material and talk it over with a REAL MECHANIC. I could be in a big mess if I tried to tear my engine apart with no hands on experience.

That is why if you want to breed you are encouraged and I urge you to - watch a female be bred, observe the changes during a pregnancy, watch as many labor and deliverys as you can- watch those tails being docked and dew claws removed. Watch a litter of puppies grow and see the development of the little monsters. Little yorkie puppies can be quite characters from a early age.

Do you have to have a reproductive specialist- Heavens no. Do you need a qualified vet. You sure do. You need to spend a lot of time in researching and find that special person. Most folks will not find a reproductive specialist that takes routine cases. I have raised cats, horses, pigs, cattle, goats and dogs and have never needed the servies. If I did is there one available - yes at my local vet school. Would my vet refer me if needed yes. If you are lucky enough to have this reproductive specialist and they will take you as a routine client- fantastic.

Am I a bad breeder becasue I am not using a reproductive specialist? I do not think so. I purchased my first yorkie in 1973- too date I have never had to use a reproductive speacialist and have never been told that I needed the services of one. When that situation presents itself and I have the need then I will make that appointment. I have never had a female die from breeding from any of the above breeds of animals that I have raised- very few c-sections and a very low ratio on loss of life on the babies. I like to think it is beacuse I have done my homework hands on as well as reading and thank all the folks who had the time and patience to help me grow and learn.

Carters Mom · 01-15-2006, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnalegria

Thank you Southern Cal for sharing your article.

The statement that I enjoyed the most was " Advice regarding patients suitability for breed standard viewpoint or the show potential of progeny is best sought from expereinced breeder". Sorry I do not know how to cut and paste so I had to type it in.

As we all now no matter what your point of view - if you dig deep enough you can find a article that will suport your point of view.

JMHO- we do need to read and do research. Take each article for what it is the authors point of view. Some of the articles that I have seen listed here on YT have been good others are rather humerous.

There is a lot to be said on the positive side when you talk with experienced breeders. Folks are correct when they state on here they are not a breeder but IMHO they should also be careful about what they are posting. Reading a article does not mean that it is valid and should be quoted as the path to follow.

I am not a car mechanic- I can read a articles about rebuilding my engine. Sure hope that I do not make myself out as a expert because of what I have been reading. IMHO- you take this reading material and talk it over with a REAL MECHANIC. I could be in a big mess if I tried to tear my engine apart with no hands on experience.

That is why if you want to breed you are encouraged and I urge you to - watch a female be bred, observe the changes during a pregnancy, watch as many labor and deliverys as you can- watch those tails being docked and dew claws removed. Watch a litter of puppies grow and see the development of the little monsters. Little yorkie puppies can be quite characters from a early age.

Do you have to have a reproductive specialist- Heavens no. Do you need a qualified vet. You sure do. You need to spend a lot of time in researching and find that special person. Most folks will not find a reproductive specialist that takes routine cases. I have raised cats, horses, pigs, cattle, goats and dogs and have never needed the servies. If I did is there one available - yes at my local vet school. Would my vet refer me if needed yes. If you are lucky enough to have this reproductive specialist and they will take you as a routine client- fantastic.

Am I a bad breeder becasue I am not using a reproductive specialist? I do not think so. I purchased my first yorkie in 1973- too date I have never had to use a reproductive speacialist and have never been told that I needed the services of one. When that situation presents itself and I have the need then I will make that appointment. I have never had a female die from breeding from any of the above breeds of animals that I have raised- very few c-sections and a very low ratio on loss of life on the babies. I like to think it is beacuse I have done my homework hands on as well as reading and thank all the folks who had the time and patience to help me grow and learn.

Wow! Kathy, I want to grow up and be just like you!

Excellent post!

sylvan · 01-15-2006, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teresa20051969

my sister has a yorkie that is about 4lbs. she wants to breed her so she has a puppy from her. dou all think it's safe? if it's safe, what size yorkie do you suggest she breed with?

keeping it simple here...

4lbs is too little.

red98vett · 01-15-2006, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylvan

keeping it simple here...

4lbs is too little.

I AGREE totally !

shelbysmom · 01-15-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feminvstr

anything under 5lbs is at much higher risk, there are several threads here on YT addressing this issue here is a heart felt thread because she bred her tiny girl and lost her and most of her litter I'm Devastated!!!!

Maddie was not tiny. She was 5lbs. pre pregnancy at 9.5 months according to a previous post.

shelbysmom · 01-15-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teresa20051969

my sister has a yorkie that is about 4lbs. she wants to breed her so she has a puppy from her. dou all think it's safe? if it's safe, what size yorkie do you suggest she breed with?

the YTCA has this to say.

http://www.ytca.org/faq.html#A
Many breeders prefer a
general weight range of 4-7 four pounds believing that size retains desired Toy
qualities while maintaining optimum health. The Yorkie Standard states weight
"must not exceed seven pounds" and as a prospective pet owner you should
realize that even at 7 pounds, the Yorkie is still a small dog. (Females weighing
less than 5 pounds are considered by most breeders to be unsuitable for breeding.)

That being said, I find it interesting that many breeders show females that are just 4lbs. If they go through the time and expense to show them I bet they end up breeding them. Guess they fatten them up pre pregnancy?

PlatinumYorkies · 01-15-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

Yes, thank you for the citation...the "breed average" weight is 5-7 lbs. according to Yorkies for Dummies.

Yes, though it is stated there, that is the one and only place that I've ever seen "breed average" I also think that we should go with what the YTCA has on it's website..that has also been stated in this Thread...I am sorry for the confusion, IMHO, I thought it was evident that that was the "ONLY" place that I could find(and goodness know's I searched) that "EVER" cited "breed average" My true honest beliefs....

fl24019 · 01-15-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teresa20051969

my sister has a yorkie that is about 4lbs. she wants to breed her so she has a puppy from her. dou all think it's safe? if it's safe, what size yorkie do you suggest she breed with?

How old is she?

From what I've gathered reading about this, it's risky to breed at all, but weight is not the crucial factor, pelvic size is. Your vet is best qualified to determine that.

txshopper73 · 01-15-2006, 03:57 PM

Please read this story from a member here that bred her bitch that was too small...

NEVER never bred a TINY

teresa20051969 · 01-15-2006, 04:16 PM

my sisters dog is 2 yrs old. everyone says it's not a good idea to breed her so i will pass the advice onto my sister. shes close to 4lbs. i told her to take her to the vet and have the vet examine her and get his opinion because i surely don't want to give her bad advice and something happen to her dog and it be my fault. she loves her dog so much and she just wanted to have one of her puppies.

01-15-2006, 05:07 AM	#21
wnalegria Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indianapolis Indiana Posts: 816	Thank you Southern Cal for sharing your article. The statement that I enjoyed the most was " Advice regarding patients suitability for breed standard viewpoint or the show potential of progeny is best sought from expereinced breeder". Sorry I do not know how to cut and paste so I had to type it in. As we all now no matter what your point of view - if you dig deep enough you can find a article that will suport your point of view. JMHO- we do need to read and do research. Take each article for what it is the authors point of view. Some of the articles that I have seen listed here on YT have been good others are rather humerous. There is a lot to be said on the positive side when you talk with experienced breeders. Folks are correct when they state on here they are not a breeder but IMHO they should also be careful about what they are posting. Reading a article does not mean that it is valid and should be quoted as the path to follow. I am not a car mechanic- I can read a articles about rebuilding my engine. Sure hope that I do not make myself out as a expert because of what I have been reading. IMHO- you take this reading material and talk it over with a REAL MECHANIC. I could be in a big mess if I tried to tear my engine apart with no hands on experience. That is why if you want to breed you are encouraged and I urge you to - watch a female be bred, observe the changes during a pregnancy, watch as many labor and deliverys as you can- watch those tails being docked and dew claws removed. Watch a litter of puppies grow and see the development of the little monsters. Little yorkie puppies can be quite characters from a early age. Do you have to have a reproductive specialist- Heavens no. Do you need a qualified vet. You sure do. You need to spend a lot of time in researching and find that special person. Most folks will not find a reproductive specialist that takes routine cases. I have raised cats, horses, pigs, cattle, goats and dogs and have never needed the servies. If I did is there one available - yes at my local vet school. Would my vet refer me if needed yes. If you are lucky enough to have this reproductive specialist and they will take you as a routine client- fantastic. Am I a bad breeder becasue I am not using a reproductive specialist? I do not think so. I purchased my first yorkie in 1973- too date I have never had to use a reproductive speacialist and have never been told that I needed the services of one. When that situation presents itself and I have the need then I will make that appointment. I have never had a female die from breeding from any of the above breeds of animals that I have raised- very few c-sections and a very low ratio on loss of life on the babies. I like to think it is beacuse I have done my homework hands on as well as reading and thank all the folks who had the time and patience to help me grow and learn. __________________ Kathy http://klsyorkshireterriers.com

01-15-2006, 03:57 PM	#29
txshopper73 Donating YT 14K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Victoria, Texas Posts: 14,184 Blog Entries: 1	Please read this story from a member here that bred her bitch that was too small... NEVER never bred a TINY __________________ As always...JMO (Just My Opinion) Kimberley Gracie, London and Dallas

01-15-2006, 04:16 PM	#30
teresa20051969 Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: tennessee Posts: 134	my sisters dog is 2 yrs old. everyone says it's not a good idea to breed her so i will pass the advice onto my sister. shes close to 4lbs. i told her to take her to the vet and have the vet examine her and get his opinion because i surely don't want to give her bad advice and something happen to her dog and it be my fault. she loves her dog so much and she just wanted to have one of her puppies.