Question about yorkie's size - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

BamaFan121s · 01-13-2006, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red98vett

Breeding ?

I didn't see where Heather said she planed to breed - I read her post with the understanding she was looking for a weight and size guess ?

OK, that's what I thought to. And I thought it was a boy? But hey it is early and I get easily confused in the AM.

gymbo68 · 01-13-2006, 07:59 AM

Gee...
Max is more square but Milo is long and short....and kinda chunky...but we don't care hes my big protector! ANyway I had never heard some of these things so this was cool to read-

Who threw in breeding? That was not in her question? Plus her pup is a he...so its really not even an option-

red98vett · 01-13-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

OK, that's what I thought to. And I thought it was a boy? But hey it is early and I get easily confused in the AM.

I had to go back and read the original post too and double check - She didn't say a thing about breeding - just size but I see how you got confused

.....I still would love to see a picture of him !

SoCalyorkiLvr · 01-13-2006, 08:06 AM

The OP also said nothing about "showing" and at least two posters discussed this in relation to "yorkie size" with no criticism from the gallery.

The thread topic was "Yorkie Size" so it is appropriate and "on topic" to discuss yorkie size in relation to all areas isn't it? My comment about breeding females and their frames was addressed the membership as a whole and not to the thread starter. It was for informational and educational purposes only.

Did this thread get relocated to the breeding section? Wasn't it originally in General?

What is the big deal here?

I am starting to feel like my every post is being scrutinized by a certain few....

BamaFan121s · 01-13-2006, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

The OP also said nothing about "showing" and at least two posters discussed this in relation to "yorkie size" with no criticism from the gallery.

I am starting to feel like my every post is being scrutinized by a certain few....

Size being the key element.

And yeah, I'm starting to feel that way too.

feminvstr · 01-13-2006, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

I would just like to add to this that "frame", height and length, and how proportional those are is VERY important on a breeding female. My understanding is that you do not want long and narrow as the birth canal may not accomodate the puppies well.

So, if you considering breeding a female, please have a reproductive specialist check the female's frame to see if it is appropriate for breeding and, if you are buying a dog that you are considering breeding make sure it is not longer than it is tall.

operative word "He" from the original poster, little hard for the little fella to do birthing

IMHO

Carters Mom · 01-13-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heather_lathrop

I sort of feel stupid for having to ask this question, but I really am curious, and I feel like this is the place to ask.
I have an 8 month old yorkie and he weighs 3 1/2 pounds, and he is 7 inches tall, and 12 inches long. Is he done growing?? And if he is done growing, does that mean he's a tiny or a standard?? Just wanting to know. This is my first yorkie, and there are a lot of things I don't know..
If anyone can help me I would really appreciate it. Thanks Heather

Heather is asking about her male and giving the membership a basis in which to help her understand whether he is finished growing or not and whether he should be considered smaller (tiny) or standard.

There are many great posts to this thread letting her know the proper way to measure her pup and giving her information according to the breed standard how to form her own opinion as to whether her yorkie will be "standard."

Thanks to all the members that can keep their responses relevant. To you I tip my hat!

Any off topic or irrelevant posts should be posted in their own thread.

Lets keep the flow of this forum smooth!

Heather -- I look forward to hearing the new measurements and current weight!

Lisa

wnalegria · 01-13-2006, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

I would just like to add to this that "frame", height and length, and how proportional those are is VERY important on a breeding female. My understanding is that you do not want long and narrow as the birth canal may not accomodate the puppies well.

So, if you considering breeding a female, please have a reproductive specialist check the female's frame to see if it is appropriate for breeding and, if you are buying a dog that you are considering breeding make sure it is not longer than it is tall.

IMHO- you will find that a longer back has more room for puppies then a short back. But then this topic was about a male puppy not a female. So IMHO talking about a reproductive specialist may be off topic. Maybe you would like to start another thread and discuss that in the females.

heather_lathrop · 01-13-2006, 12:47 PM

Wow! I didn't realize what I riot that would start. But I would like to say thank you to ALL of your posts. Because eventually I am going to be looking for a female to breed with my male. My original question was if my eight month old was going to get any bigger or not. This is my first yorkie and I don't know alot about the breed yet. I did measure his length wrong though, so I am planning on taking him into the vet in the morning and have proper measurments done. Just for me to know. When I measured from the tip of his nose to his rump, and now I know that was incorrect. Thank you for that tip, otherwise I would have no idea!!! I really just wanted to know if this is a good weight for an eight month old yorkie, if he was done growing, etc. Just because when I bought him, the breeder told me that he probably not be real small. Just wondering, thought I would ask some of the people who really know what they are talking about. I also am going to put a pic or two on here of him. I really don't have any that are really good. But I am going to get a new memory card so I can take some good one's.
Thanks again for everything, and I will post again tommorow after I go to the vet.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 01-13-2006, 05:16 PM

Heather ......he is really cute.

And don't worry..

..you didn't start the riot...(unfortunately I think I did) lol...no matter how unintentionally

but you redeemed me and I am eternally grateful....thanks

... and I am glad you got some good advice anyway. When it comes time to look for a female to breed you can come back to this section to get more opinions.

heather_lathrop · 01-13-2006, 10:39 PM

I hope I made things a little better, I am actually looking for a female puppy right now, we are going to want to get her in the first few weeks of February. I am really going to need help with what to look for in her as well. But I'll start another forum for that. As for Gizmo, I think I am going to take him into the vet in the morning to have him properly weighed and measured. Once again, thanks for all your help!!

wnalegria · 01-14-2006, 03:36 AM

May I make a suggestion- if you are looking to use your male for your stud why don't you wait on buying your female.

We have talked about this many time here on YT. Your male is such a baby and not grown up. You need a female that is string in the point where he is weak to produce nice puppies. You just don't have a puppy that is old enough to make those distinctions at this time. This would also give you a chance to get to learn about the breed and find out more about what is involved in breeding. It will make things easier for you and your dogs.

Don't forget that a female that you purchase may come into heat at 5- 6 months and your little man may be old enough to sire a litter. Akc has rules and regulations about how old the parents have to be to reister a litter- your kids if AKC may not be legal. There is also a lot to learn and you need to know about when your kids a mature enough to breed for exapmle and what to expect. A class in Yorkie 101 would really help you.

heather_lathrop · 01-14-2006, 09:27 AM

Actually the real reason that I even started this post was because I wanted to know if my yorkie was done growing, and if he was done growing would be be considered a standard or a tiny.. I am not looking to breed professionally, I don't have the proper tools to do that right now, I would like to possibly breed proffesionally WAY down the road. But I am mainly looking to buy a female, just mainly to have as a companion to gizmo. If they were to have pups down the road sometime that would be ok. I would love that. But it would be nothing serious. I just want to have a male and a female. And when I go to pick her out, I need to know what to look for, and what to stay away from.. Thanks for all your advise, I would love for your reply's to keep coming, because they are all helpful to me. Thanks, Heather

wnalegria · 01-14-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heather_lathrop

Actually the real reason that I even started this post was because I wanted to know if my yorkie was done growing, and if he was done growing would be be considered a standard or a tiny.. I am not looking to breed professionally, I don't have the proper tools to do that right now, I would like to possibly breed proffesionally WAY down the road. But I am mainly looking to buy a female, just mainly to have as a companion to gizmo. If they were to have pups down the road sometime that would be ok. I would love that. But it would be nothing serious. I just want to have a male and a female. And when I go to pick her out, I need to know what to look for, and what to stay away from.. Thanks for all your advise, I would love for your reply's to keep coming, because they are all helpful to me. Thanks, Heather

I hope that you change your mind. Breeding your dogs is something serious and should not be taken lightly. I am not sure what you mean when you say breed professionally. Most of the members and or breeders on this site are average jane and john does - we have jobs that pay for our living our dogs do not pay for our living - in fact I do not know one who I would call a professional breeder. We are yorkie fanciers, lovers, and show hobbiest who have a deep passion for the breed.

IMHO If you breed one litter or ten you should put the same amount of time, effort and work into the venture. IMHO To do anything less is a insult to your female and could endager her and her puppies lives. You need to give 100%

SoCalyorkiLvr · 01-14-2006, 03:26 PM

As I said I am not a breeder but I have read a lot and done some research as issues that have been raised here. I love the breed and consider myself a breed fancier even though I do not breed. I am like you and love to learn all I can about a subject I am interested in and I am obsessed with yorkies so here goes...for what it's worth:

Generally speaking the female should be larger than the male to reduce the risk of pregnancy complications. How far back do you know the genetics of your male? Are you in touch with his breeder and have you asked her about breeding him? She would be a good resource for you as only she will know what his parents and grandparents genetic histories are and you need to go at least that far back before you breed.

I would find a good mentor if I were you. Is your male's breeder reputable? If so, run your idea by her and get her opinion. Then I would start looking for a "breed quality" female if you are even considering the possibility of breeding her in the future. I know you haven't made up your mind for sure and it is really too soon in your education about breeding yorkies to do that anyway, but you are smart to cover your bases w/o rushing to get her. I know you want a friend for Gizmo and that is good.

There is a lot to look for when searching for a breed quality female...mostly temperament, health,genetics and the "frame" of the female as I mentioned in my previous post. If you are not considering showing the female or her offspring then you do not have to be as concerned with the YTCA breed standard but if you want to produce good looking puppies as well as ones with good dispositions and ones that LOOK like the yorkie then you really need to study the breed standard and learn what a "perfect" yorkie is all the while realizing that there is no such thing as a perfect yorkie.

The breed standard is what show breeders and other breeders use in their quest to "improve the breed". It is nice to get a female with at least a few champions in her lineage as close to the front of her pedigree as possible as at least this shows that the breeders of her ancestors were looking to breed to the standard and, while this does not guarantee good quality pups, you have increased your odds of producing some. Are there any champions in your males pedigree?

You will pay more for a breed quality female and it will be harder to find because a lot of good breeders will not sell a breeding female to just anyone. It takes establishing a relationship with you and a trust so that he/she knows you will only undertake this with the utmost caution and preparation and always with the best intersts of the female in mind.

A reproductive veterinary specialist can examine the female and evaluate her pelvis and whether she would have an easy time delivering or not. I do not believe pelvic capacity an be accurately evaluated however until the female is full grown so if you want to be "sure" of getting a breed quality female it is best to buy an adult dog who is at least 8 months to a year and has at least one heat I would guess. In this case, I would have a reproductive specialist evaluate her thoroughly before you make the purchase.

Here is a link to a website with veterinary articles on dystocia (difficult delivery) in dogs and how to minimize the risk.

http://www.intl.elsevierhealth.com/e-books/pdf/974.pdf

Small breed dogs in particular seem to have a greater risk and problem with dystocia than other breeds. There is a survey on dytocia dicussed in this article done in South Wales and it was conducted in 12 veterinary practices. Of the 265 cases of dystocia 26% were yorkies, 8% were jack russell and 8% were welsh corgies. The only problem with the accuracy of the survey is that there was no information as to the numbers of these different breeds in the general dog population of the area so there may have just been more yorkies there.

In any case, the experinced breeders on here and elsewhere will tell you that there is a high risk to breeding any yorkie female so it is very important if and when you decide to think seriously about breeding any female that you do everything posssible to minimize this risk.

The study also said that 26% of the cases of dystocia were from females who were smaller than the breed average so this is why it is important to make sure the female is at least the average breed size before considering breeding her. Only very very experienced breeders who know the lines of both male ad female intimately sould ever consider breeding anything under 5 lbs and 6 or 7 lbs is better. No female yorkie under 4 lbs should ever be bred imo.

This is long enough and should get you started. Please do not feel stupid or be afraid to ask ANY question. Everyone here tries to be nice and do what is best for the breed so every question is a good one because you are trying to learn!!

01-13-2006, 07:59 AM	#17
gymbo68 YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,022	Gee... Max is more square but Milo is long and short....and kinda chunky...but we don't care hes my big protector! ANyway I had never heard some of these things so this was cool to read- Who threw in breeding? That was not in her question? Plus her pup is a he...so its really not even an option- __________________ Max and Milos Dad!

01-13-2006, 08:06 AM	#19
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	The OP also said nothing about "showing" and at least two posters discussed this in relation to "yorkie size" with no criticism from the gallery. The thread topic was "Yorkie Size" so it is appropriate and "on topic" to discuss yorkie size in relation to all areas isn't it? My comment about breeding females and their frames was addressed the membership as a whole and not to the thread starter. It was for informational and educational purposes only. Did this thread get relocated to the breeding section? Wasn't it originally in General? What is the big deal here? I am starting to feel like my every post is being scrutinized by a certain few.... Last edited by SoCalyorkiLvr; 01-13-2006 at 08:09 AM.

01-13-2006, 10:39 PM	#26
heather_lathrop Gizmo and Gidget's Pet Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 1,323	I hope I made things a little better, I am actually looking for a female puppy right now, we are going to want to get her in the first few weeks of February. I am really going to need help with what to look for in her as well. But I'll start another forum for that. As for Gizmo, I think I am going to take him into the vet in the morning to have him properly weighed and measured. Once again, thanks for all your help!! __________________ Heather-Moma to Gizmo and Gidget see us on Dogster:www.dogster.com/?268065 www.dogster.com/?268072 Heather's myspacehttp://www.myspace.com/heatherlathrop

01-14-2006, 03:36 AM	#27
wnalegria Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indianapolis Indiana Posts: 816	May I make a suggestion- if you are looking to use your male for your stud why don't you wait on buying your female. We have talked about this many time here on YT. Your male is such a baby and not grown up. You need a female that is string in the point where he is weak to produce nice puppies. You just don't have a puppy that is old enough to make those distinctions at this time. This would also give you a chance to get to learn about the breed and find out more about what is involved in breeding. It will make things easier for you and your dogs. Don't forget that a female that you purchase may come into heat at 5- 6 months and your little man may be old enough to sire a litter. Akc has rules and regulations about how old the parents have to be to reister a litter- your kids if AKC may not be legal. There is also a lot to learn and you need to know about when your kids a mature enough to breed for exapmle and what to expect. A class in Yorkie 101 would really help you. __________________ Kathy http://klsyorkshireterriers.com

01-14-2006, 09:27 AM	#28
heather_lathrop Gizmo and Gidget's Pet Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 1,323	Actually the real reason that I even started this post was because I wanted to know if my yorkie was done growing, and if he was done growing would be be considered a standard or a tiny.. I am not looking to breed professionally, I don't have the proper tools to do that right now, I would like to possibly breed proffesionally WAY down the road. But I am mainly looking to buy a female, just mainly to have as a companion to gizmo. If they were to have pups down the road sometime that would be ok. I would love that. But it would be nothing serious. I just want to have a male and a female. And when I go to pick her out, I need to know what to look for, and what to stay away from.. Thanks for all your advise, I would love for your reply's to keep coming, because they are all helpful to me. Thanks, Heather __________________ Heather-Moma to Gizmo and Gidget see us on Dogster:www.dogster.com/?268065 www.dogster.com/?268072 Heather's myspacehttp://www.myspace.com/heatherlathrop

01-13-2006, 05:16 PM	#25
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	Heather ......he is really cute. And don't worry.. ..you didn't start the riot...(unfortunately I think I did) lol...no matter how unintentionally but you redeemed me and I am eternally grateful....thanks ... and I am glad you got some good advice anyway. When it comes time to look for a female to breed you can come back to this section to get more opinions.

01-14-2006, 03:26 PM	#30
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	As I said I am not a breeder but I have read a lot and done some research as issues that have been raised here. I love the breed and consider myself a breed fancier even though I do not breed. I am like you and love to learn all I can about a subject I am interested in and I am obsessed with yorkies so here goes...for what it's worth: Generally speaking the female should be larger than the male to reduce the risk of pregnancy complications. How far back do you know the genetics of your male? Are you in touch with his breeder and have you asked her about breeding him? She would be a good resource for you as only she will know what his parents and grandparents genetic histories are and you need to go at least that far back before you breed. I would find a good mentor if I were you. Is your male's breeder reputable? If so, run your idea by her and get her opinion. Then I would start looking for a "breed quality" female if you are even considering the possibility of breeding her in the future. I know you haven't made up your mind for sure and it is really too soon in your education about breeding yorkies to do that anyway, but you are smart to cover your bases w/o rushing to get her. I know you want a friend for Gizmo and that is good. There is a lot to look for when searching for a breed quality female...mostly temperament, health,genetics and the "frame" of the female as I mentioned in my previous post. If you are not considering showing the female or her offspring then you do not have to be as concerned with the YTCA breed standard but if you want to produce good looking puppies as well as ones with good dispositions and ones that LOOK like the yorkie then you really need to study the breed standard and learn what a "perfect" yorkie is all the while realizing that there is no such thing as a perfect yorkie. The breed standard is what show breeders and other breeders use in their quest to "improve the breed". It is nice to get a female with at least a few champions in her lineage as close to the front of her pedigree as possible as at least this shows that the breeders of her ancestors were looking to breed to the standard and, while this does not guarantee good quality pups, you have increased your odds of producing some. Are there any champions in your males pedigree? You will pay more for a breed quality female and it will be harder to find because a lot of good breeders will not sell a breeding female to just anyone. It takes establishing a relationship with you and a trust so that he/she knows you will only undertake this with the utmost caution and preparation and always with the best intersts of the female in mind. A reproductive veterinary specialist can examine the female and evaluate her pelvis and whether she would have an easy time delivering or not. I do not believe pelvic capacity an be accurately evaluated however until the female is full grown so if you want to be "sure" of getting a breed quality female it is best to buy an adult dog who is at least 8 months to a year and has at least one heat I would guess. In this case, I would have a reproductive specialist evaluate her thoroughly before you make the purchase. Here is a link to a website with veterinary articles on dystocia (difficult delivery) in dogs and how to minimize the risk. http://www.intl.elsevierhealth.com/e-books/pdf/974.pdf Small breed dogs in particular seem to have a greater risk and problem with dystocia than other breeds. There is a survey on dytocia dicussed in this article done in South Wales and it was conducted in 12 veterinary practices. Of the 265 cases of dystocia 26% were yorkies, 8% were jack russell and 8% were welsh corgies. The only problem with the accuracy of the survey is that there was no information as to the numbers of these different breeds in the general dog population of the area so there may have just been more yorkies there. In any case, the experinced breeders on here and elsewhere will tell you that there is a high risk to breeding any yorkie female so it is very important if and when you decide to think seriously about breeding any female that you do everything posssible to minimize this risk. The study also said that 26% of the cases of dystocia were from females who were smaller than the breed average so this is why it is important to make sure the female is at least the average breed size before considering breeding her. Only very very experienced breeders who know the lines of both male ad female intimately sould ever consider breeding anything under 5 lbs and 6 or 7 lbs is better. No female yorkie under 4 lbs should ever be bred imo. This is long enough and should get you started. Please do not feel stupid or be afraid to ask ANY question. Everyone here tries to be nice and do what is best for the breed so every question is a good one because you are trying to learn!! Last edited by SoCalyorkiLvr; 01-14-2006 at 03:31 PM.