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Old 02-06-2014, 11:29 AM   #1
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Default New Puppies- Cesarian Delivery

Hello everyone!

My Lola's pups were delivered yesterday via C-section.
Mom and pups are doing well so far.
We have 1 boy and 1 girl.

I wanted to start this new thread so I can ask newborn-puppy questions.

My first question is about the pups latching on to mom's vulva.
Is this normal?

Mom is having a bloody discharge post surgery, which the vet told me to expect. I'm wondering whether this could pose a problem for the pups?

Also, Lola has this occasional moaning. I'm assuming this is from discomfort from the C-section and the pups nursing…should I be concerned?

Thanks
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:01 PM   #2
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It is not unusual for the pups to try to latch onto the vulva. Just move them when you see them doing that.

It is not unusual for a female to show some discomfort after having a c-section. Did the vet give her any pain medicine? Usually if they are in a lot of pain they will shake and tremble.

Do she have plenty of milk? Is she eating since you got her home?

Sometimes it will take them a couple of day after surgery before they have a bowel movement.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:42 PM   #3
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It is not unusual for the pups to try to latch onto the vulva. Just move them when you see them doing that.

It is not unusual for a female to show some discomfort after having a c-section. Did the vet give her any pain medicine? Usually if they are in a lot of pain they will shake and tremble.

Do she have plenty of milk? Is she eating since you got her home?

Sometimes it will take them a couple of day after surgery before they have a bowel movement.

Hi! She doesn't have pain meds, she was only given amoxicillin (50 mg 2x/day) and half tab of petcal daily. She's not moaning a lot, but does it occasionally, usually when pups are latched, I guess because the area must be sore. No trembling or shaking so far.

I'm not sure about her milk supply. Her nipples look much larger and brighter pink (almost red) than during pregnancy. Pups are latching on and not crying….but I just weighed them and they're lighter than yesterday? Is it the same as human babies that usually drop a little weight after birth or should I be concerned they're not getting enough? I was thinking if they were quiet, they were satisfied…am I wrong?

Yesterday she refused any solid food. I did do some of the home recipes listed in stickies here, so she had some of the goat milk, water, egg yolk, and corn syrup mixture. Actually, she liked that quite a bit. I also made the pudding and she likes that as well. She's had nautical too. Today, I got her to eat some white rice with chicken broth and a little bit of chicken. She has had a bowel movement already and has urinated quite a bit.

Anything I can do better? I really want to give her the best chance.

Thanks
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:53 PM   #4
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You should be able to squeeze a nipple and see the milk come out. Keep and eye on her teats and make sure they don't get hard. I imagine since she is on amoxicillin you should not have to worry about mastitis right now.

It sounds like you are doing a good job taking care of momma and babies. Hopefully the babies will start gaining. Just make sure momma eats about 4 or 5 times a day. I often have to hand feed my new mommas the first few weeks.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:20 PM   #5
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Hi! She doesn't have pain meds, she was only given amoxicillin (50 mg 2x/day) and half tab of petcal daily. She's not moaning a lot, but does it occasionally, usually when pups are latched, I guess because the area must be sore. No trembling or shaking so far.

I'm not sure about her milk supply. Her nipples look much larger and brighter pink (almost red) than during pregnancy. Pups are latching on and not crying….but I just weighed them and they're lighter than yesterday? Is it the same as human babies that usually drop a little weight after birth or should I be concerned they're not getting enough? I was thinking if they were quiet, they were satisfied…am I wrong?

Yesterday she refused any solid food. I did do some of the home recipes listed in stickies here, so she had some of the goat milk, water, egg yolk, and corn syrup mixture. Actually, she liked that quite a bit. I also made the pudding and she likes that as well. She's had nautical too. Today, I got her to eat some white rice with chicken broth and a little bit of chicken. She has had a bowel movement already and has urinated quite a bit.

Anything I can do better? I really want to give her the best chance.

Thanks
The milk supply is kind of critical information to know....if she is not producing milk, that would explane why the puppies are dropping weight rather than gaining weight. I always weigh my babies twice a day, and I can pin point when a problem is manifesting quietly...the puppy stops gaining weight and drops weight......healthy puppies that are getting enough to eat do NOT drop weight.....that is not acceptable. I hate it when vets send dogs home without pain med. following surgery. You obviously can not put the momma to sleep with large doses of pain meds, but a little med to just take the edge off the pain is only compassionate.....she should NEVER get to the point where she is shaking and trembling in pain, ,,,,, Anytime I have had to section one of my mommas, my vet gives me Torbutrol in Vitamino for the pain, and I give her a low dose, every 4-6 hours, to give her some relief....the low dose does not affect the babies and it keeps my lady from suffering in pain. I only need to give it the day of surgery and first post op day....she is usually getting much better by the second post op day, needing the med only once or twice in a 12 hour period. If those babies do not turn around and start gaining weight, I would be doing supplemental feedings. There are many formulas in the Breeding section for supplemental feedings immediately.....I personally dont like having to make up lost ground......you really should be "milking" each teat to be sure she is producing milk, especially the vital colostrum those babies require from momma for protection against diseases....just plain canned puppy milk is not really the optimum choice, especially since they have already started to drop weight.

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Old 02-06-2014, 06:50 PM   #6
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You should be able to squeeze a nipple and see the milk come out. Keep and eye on her teats and make sure they don't get hard. I imagine since she is on amoxicillin you should not have to worry about mastitis right now.

It sounds like you are doing a good job taking care of momma and babies. Hopefully the babies will start gaining. Just make sure momma eats about 4 or 5 times a day. I often have to hand feed my new mommas the first few weeks.

Thanks! All nipples are soft and she had been hand fed initially, and still most of the time, but early this evening she did walk to the dish with rice and ate on her own. She still won' touch the other dish with the mixed dry and wet dog food. Still taking Nutrical, and the other home recipes well.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:55 PM   #7
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The milk supply is kind of critical information to know....if she is not producing milk, that would explane why the puppies are dropping weight rather than gaining weight. I always weigh my babies twice a day, and I can pin point when a problem is manifesting quietly...the puppy stops gaining weight and drops weight......healthy puppies that are getting enough to eat do NOT drop weight.....that is not acceptable. I hate it when vets send dogs home without pain med. following surgery. You obviously can not put the momma to sleep with large doses of pain meds, but a little med to just take the edge off the pain is only compassionate.....she should NEVER get to the point where she is shaking and trembling in pain, ,,,,, Anytime I have had to section one of my mommas, my vet gives me Torbutrol in Vitamino for the pain, and I give her a low dose, every 4-6 hours, to give her some relief....the low dose does not affect the babies and it keeps my lady from suffering in pain. I only need to give it the day of surgery and first post op day....she is usually getting much better by the second post op day, needing the med only once or twice in a 12 hour period. If those babies do not turn around and start gaining weight, I would be doing supplemental feedings. There are many formulas in the Breeding section for supplemental feedings immediately.....I personally dont like having to make up lost ground......you really should be "milking" each teat to be sure she is producing milk, especially the vital colostrum those babies require from momma for protection against diseases....just plain canned puppy milk is not really the optimum choice, especially since they have already started to drop weight.
Ok…I will get right to it. I'll do a manual check on mom. Is there anything additional I can do to help her milk production?

Just wondering why pups don't cry if they're not getting enough milk? Is this typical? Could they be ill?
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:38 PM   #8
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I only saw a small clear drop produced from some of the nipples. I find it hard to believe that there isn't anything there considering the puppy behavior- they latch on, don't fuss at the nipple, then sleep comfortably. Am I wrong to expect this to be signs of them getting milk and being full?

In any case, I am concerned about the weight drop. Additional to supplementing for the pups, is there anything I can do to improve milk production?
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:15 PM   #9
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What you may be seeing is colostrum. Did you try all her nipples? If the pups had just nursed on her you might not see as much but since there are only two pups I would think she would be full of milk.

You could make her some whelping pudding and that might help bring her milk in better. The pups should have full bellies and they should be nursing every couple of hours.

If they are nursing and not getting enough milk then they will slowly get weaker so I pray they are getting enough.

How Long After the Baby Puppies Are Born Does the Mother Give Milk? | Dog Care - The Daily Puppy
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:10 PM   #10
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What you may be seeing is colostrum. Did you try all her nipples? If the pups had just nursed on her you might not see as much but since there are only two pups I would think she would be full of milk.

You could make her some whelping pudding and that might help bring her milk in better. The pups should have full bellies and they should be nursing every couple of hours.

If they are nursing and not getting enough milk then they will slowly get weaker so I pray they are getting enough.

How Long After the Baby Puppies Are Born Does the Mother Give Milk? | Dog Care - The Daily Puppy
I did check but only a few showed. She's been on the whelping pudding since yesterday, it's one of the few things she would actually take when we got home.

I feel like such a fool not checking this earlier. I was so happy to see them latch on and her taking care of them, that I didn't think anything was wrong. Babies' bellies are a little pudgy but not quite round.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:29 PM   #11
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If I was in your position, I would start supplemental feeding before the pups get weaker and loose more weight. If they are latching onto momma, they may latch onto a bottle nipple....however you decide to give the feedings, if you do decide to do that, you need to be sure they are getting 1cc of formula per ounce of the pups body weight.

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Old 02-06-2014, 11:45 PM   #12
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Look into fenugreek to help with milk production.

That's what we used with my momma dog. Be warned she will smell like maple syrup after taking it. It's a capsule, and I would just open it and sprinkle on her whelping pudding or mix in with some yogurt.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:02 AM   #13
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If I was in your position, I would start supplemental feeding before the pups get weaker and loose more weight. If they are latching onto momma, they may latch onto a bottle nipple....however you decide to give the feedings, if you do decide to do that, you need to be sure they are getting 1cc of formula per ounce of the pups body weight.
Thank you! I did start last night. No gain yet, but at least no additional loss. I fed until they tired out and fell asleep and had full round tummies. I would wiggle the bottle nipple a little and sometimes they took a little more, sometimes they went back to sleep, then I handed them over to mom to clean them up.

I have been feeding more frequent than every 2 hours…more like every 1 1/2 hours. Now that I know how much they need, I'll be more mindful of the actual amount.

How frequent should they take this amount of milk?

I've been on a loop…feed puppies, try to feed momma (she's gone back to not wanting anything solid and trying to bury under the bedding whatever food is offered??? Not sure what that's all about. Any ideas? She did just accept 2 crackers, but tried to bury the 3rd).

And when that's all done, I might just have enough time to use the bathroom or grab a bite, and then it starts all over again.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:03 AM   #14
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Look into fenugreek to help with milk production.

That's what we used with my momma dog. Be warned she will smell like maple syrup after taking it. It's a capsule, and I would just open it and sprinkle on her whelping pudding or mix in with some yogurt.
Thanks! I'll look into it.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:43 AM   #15
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I have nothing to add but wish you and Lola/babies the best. Breeding these little things is not an easy job.
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