What do you all think, I want an honest opinion!!! :) - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Toby's Human · 12-04-2005, 08:05 PM

Hi all,
I am going to ask what some of you might call a "loaded question".
I know that I have asked this question before, and although I didn't post any pictures of Toby in the thread, the discussion did get a little heated.

I am trying to figure out whether I should breed Toby. I believe that someone else on here asked this question not too long ago, but I would like to know all of you opinions.

I do know what comes with breeding a male, I know about the marking and humping and the risk of him trying to get with all the "ladies" in the neighborhood. I know that alot of you say that it will change him-which I don't want.

Toby is 5 months old on the 10th of Dec., so I know that there will still be some time for me to see if he would be a good canidate for breeding, but so far he is showing some very good qualities IMHO, besides that his back isn't perfectly straight. But the real opinion is what the experience people on this board think.

I am going to post some pictures. I want the honest truth from whoever posts. Please do not sugar coat your answers.

I want you all to know that I am want to better the breed, and I don't just want to breed for the $$. I am going to be getting him tested for potential health risks before I breed, if I decide that is what it best to do.

He is currently 3pds 9oz, chart says that he should be right at 5 pds. He is short legged, and although he is black in the pics, he is changing silver. Just so you all know ahead of time.

Thank you all in advance for your responses.

shecass · 12-04-2005, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby's Human

Hi all,
I am going to ask what some of you might call a "loaded question".
I know that I have asked this question before, and although I didn't post any pictures of Toby in the thread, the discussion did get a little heated.

I am trying to figure out whether I should breed Toby. I believe that someone else on here asked this question not too long ago, but I would like to know all of you opinions.

I do know what comes with breeding a male, I know about the marking and humping and the risk of him trying to get with all the "ladies" in the neighborhood. I know that alot of you say that it will change him-which I don't want.

Toby is 5 months old on the 10th of Dec., so I know that there will still be some time for me to see if he would be a good canidate for breeding, but so far he is showing some very good qualities IMHO, besides that his back isn't perfectly straight. But the real opinion is what the experience people on this board think.

I am going to post some pictures. I want the honest truth from whoever posts. Please do not sugar coat your answers.

I want you all to know that I am want to better the breed, and I don't just want to breed for the $$. I am going to be getting him tested for potential health risks before I breed, if I decide that is what it best to do.

He is currently 3pds 9oz, chart says that he should be right at 5 pds. He is short legged, and although he is black in the pics, he is changing silver. Just so you all know ahead of time.

Thank you all in advance for your responses.

He is beautiful. This is just my opinion and I don't want to cause an uproar or get in a big heated discussion. This is my opinion only. It sounds like you have really thought this through and if all the test results come back clean and you still want to. I say go for it.

Wyatt is 4 1/2 months he will be 5 months around Christmas and I would say he outweighs yours by a 1lb - 1 1/2 lbs.

Bentley&BitsysMom · 12-04-2005, 08:17 PM

I don't know anything at all about breeding except that Bentely was bred with Bitsy by accident just that one time. It didn't change him at all and he doesn't nor has ever had a humping problem or a marking problem...and he is very shy around the ladies

BTW, those pics of Toby are so cute

Toby's Human · 12-04-2005, 08:19 PM

Here are 2 more.

txshopper73 · 12-04-2005, 08:26 PM

It is so hard to tell from pictures. Toby is a cute fellow. What do you mean that his back is perfectly straight? Is he a little roached? If so, I WOULD NOT breed that fault back in.

Toby's Human · 12-04-2005, 08:31 PM

No he isn't roached at all! LOL I posted a pic of his back. I was just trying to say that he isn't a show dog. It's almost straight.

feminvstr · 12-04-2005, 08:42 PM

you need to have your pup evaluated by a reputable breeder in your area or search the YTCA listing in your city...Most will be honest whether he would be a good stud canidate. There is much more to your little man than his baby pictures will show a picture can't capture his conformation, butt, legs, gait, topline etc.

He is far too young to give a proper opinion he should be looked at around 7-8 months old.

Toby's Human · 12-04-2005, 08:53 PM

Yes I was planning on doing that as well, but I know that alot of you on here know alot about this, and had alot to say to the last person that posted on here about wanting to breed there yorkie, so I figured I would take a shot at it. I want to do what is right, and I am not even saying that I am going to make it an all the time thing, just something that I have been contimplating.

wnalegria · 12-05-2005, 05:35 AM

He does look like he is a bit roached back and his tail is lowset. Pictures are hard when trying to stack a yorkie. I am terrible with picture taking. There is more then looks when you decide to breed. Look at his pedigree. Do you know anything about his ancestry? What are his knees like- does he have LP? what is his bite like? What is the texture of his coat.

It is hard to look at some pictures and say go- I would suggest that you try and find a mentor close to you with yorkies. They can go over a lot of things with you and point out the positive and the bad of your puppy. Go to a dog show look at the six month old babies that are in the ring- talk to some of those breeders.

All of this can be used to help you make the right decision for you and your little guy.

YorkieRini · 12-05-2005, 06:23 AM

Well he is definitely a cute puppy that's for sure. Expressive eyes, cute face, ears up, nice color. However, I would not breed him judging by the pics alone. He appears to have a softer coat, roached back and low tailset. Right now he looks gangly, long legged and long in body. But it could be the funky stage. I am just giving you my opinion as to what I would be thinking if he were a pup I produced.
I have tried to have opinions on my pups from pictures and it's just not possible to be fair or accurate.

Like Kathy said LP and bite are also huge factors to consider as well. It would be best to have a hands on evaluation by a professional in your area.

Why would you like to breed Toby?

Irene

Toby's Human · 12-05-2005, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby's Human

Hi all,
I am going to ask what some of you might call a "loaded question".
I know that I have asked this question before, and although I didn't post any pictures of Toby in the thread, the discussion did get a little heated.

I am trying to figure out whether I should breed Toby. I believe that someone else on here asked this question not too long ago, but I would like to know all of you opinions.

I do know what comes with breeding a male, I know about the marking and humping and the risk of him trying to get with all the "ladies" in the neighborhood. I know that alot of you say that it will change him-which I don't want.

Toby is 5 months old on the 10th of Dec., so I know that there will still be some time for me to see if he would be a good canidate for breeding, but so far he is showing some very good qualities IMHO, besides that his back isn't perfectly straight. But the real opinion is what the experience people on this board think.

I am going to post some pictures. I want the honest truth from whoever posts. Please do not sugar coat your answers.

I want you all to know that I am want to better the breed, and I don't just want to breed for the $$. I am going to be getting him tested for potential health risks before I breed, if I decide that is what it best to do.

He is currently 3pds 9oz, chart says that he should be right at 5 pds. He is short legged, and although he is black in the pics, he is changing silver. Just so you all know ahead of time.

Thank you all in advance for your responses.

This pretty much sums up why I would want to breed him.
His back is pretty much straight, and I know that he isn't roached at all, I have asked other breeders in my area about this, and my vet. Plus I have looked it up, and he doesn't at all look like the yorkie I have seen with a roached back. I know that it looks like it is in the last pic though, he was sitting and looking up at Daddy so I could get a profile picture. It is really hard to judge by the pictures I know.

You think his legs look long? I always thought they looked short compared to all the yorkies I have seen...He is a bit longer than what I have seen.
Like I was saying before, I am going to have him completely checked out before I would even think about it.
And I am not at all saying that I would want to do it all the time. I might do it once and then if I don't like the effects, never do it again. But like I was saying I am not at all saying this is what I am empatically going to do.
LP? Sorry if I sound dumb, What is this?
He hasn't lost any of his teeth yet so I guess I dunno if he will have a good bite, but so far so good.

His hair is soft, and I think he has what is called a babydoll face? Don't get mad if there is no such thing, I have seen it on these boards and I think it looked like his face.
I didn't get him prettied up for these pictures or anything so I know he look kinda scruffy.
Thank you for all your responses.

YorkieRose · 12-05-2005, 07:30 AM

So you breed him and what do you have..a stud dog..do you want a stud dog?
Is it your goal to breed Yorkies? Are you planning on getting a female?
Was there a reason for clipping his coat so early?
IMO, Toby is a lovely pet, but not a breed quality male..I am brutally honest , so never ask for my opinion unless you want it.

Toby's Human · 12-05-2005, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby's Human

Toby is 5 months old on the 10th of Dec., so I know that there will still be some time for me to see if he would be a good canidate for breeding, but so far he is showing some very good qualities IMHO, besides that his back isn't perfectly straight. But the real opinion is what the experience people on this board think.

I dunno if I want a stud dog, I am trying to figure that out now.
I wasn't planning on getting a female do you think that would be best of I had that vet ok to breed him, and if he ends up being a good quality dog? My reson for clipping him was because I like him short. It is easier for me, plus with his clothes and all. I like a male that looks like a male. That is just my opinion.
I was just wanting your opinion, so thanks, maybe all I needed was a reality check. I know that you are brutally honest, I am the same. I know that there are alot of people that come on here and have no idea about breeding, that is why you feel it is your 'duty' to be brutally honest with them.
I wanted to ask another question, is it ok to breed for a pet quality, ever? Not that I am going to, but I was just wondering?

wnalegria · 12-05-2005, 07:47 AM

The picture that I looked at had your baby standing- that is where I noticed the back and the placement of his tail. A dog either has a straight topline or does not- there are no in betweens.

You stated you had other breeders to look at you dog. What did they tell you? Are they show breeders? What did you vet say to you about breeding?

LP is a common problem with many breeds of dogs- I encourage you to do some more research before you consider breeding your guy.

I will take it your vet has not checked your guy for LP on any of your visits. Most vets will tell you the status of your baby with a basic check up. Maybe he did tell you and you misunderstood whaat he was talking about. Ask your vet to check your guy. Do research on LP.

I challenge you to figure out what LP is and tell us what you have learned. Welcome to Yorkie 101 you have a lot of time to ask questions and read about our breed.

He is a cutie and the love of your life I am sure- would I consider him breeding quality- IMO no.

Toby's Human · 12-05-2005, 08:04 AM

Normally, the voice box (the "larynx") opens as the dog inhales and partially closes during exhaling. Laryngeal paralysis (LP) occurs when the nerves controlling the voice box slowly but progressively lose their function. When dogs normally breath, the voice box is opened permitting inhaled air to pass to the lungs. LP diminishes that ability when the tissue folds edging the sides of the voice box either do not move at all or move out of time with the phases of breathing. One or both these vocal folds may be affected. “This syndrome has been reported as a congenital (present at birth) problem in the Bouvier des Flandres, Siberian Husky and Dalmatian breeds,” according to the U. California at Davis Vet Medicine's “Book of Dogs,” 1995 ed., pp. 289-290. Thus, LP slowly narrows the dogs' airway making breathing progressively difficult. The condition can occur in any breed and at any age but veterinarians report it to be most common in older dogs of large breeds. I now definitely know of two Dalmatians with LP - my own male and a bitch
Symptoms during early LP can be merely changes in the sound of barking as if debarked or with laryngitis. Frequent coughing and clearing-of-the-throat may be seen plus slight panting for no detectable reason. The dog's breathing can sometimes sound like the wheezing of an asthmatic. As LP worsens, the dog pants strenuously after the slightest exercise or mildest excitement. (The normal reaction is to inhale more at these times but becomes a drastic struggle as LP narrows the airway.)

I think I am going to take all of your advice and not breed him. You all are right. I am just being crazy.

So if your dog doesn't have a straight topline he/she is automatically considered roach backed? I didn't know that. Thanks!

12-04-2005, 08:17 PM	#3
Bentley&BitsysMom Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Charlotte Posts: 2,836	I don't know anything at all about breeding except that Bentely was bred with Bitsy by accident just that one time. It didn't change him at all and he doesn't nor has ever had a humping problem or a marking problem...and he is very shy around the ladies BTW, those pics of Toby are so cute __________________ Michelle BENTLEY, BITSY, CHARLIE, & BAILEY'S Mommy Dogster Pagehttp://www.dogster.com/?145000

12-04-2005, 08:26 PM	#5
txshopper73 Donating YT 14K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Victoria, Texas Posts: 14,184 Blog Entries: 1	It is so hard to tell from pictures. Toby is a cute fellow. What do you mean that his back is perfectly straight? Is he a little roached? If so, I WOULD NOT breed that fault back in. __________________ As always...JMO (Just My Opinion) Kimberley Gracie, London and Dallas

12-04-2005, 08:31 PM	#6
Toby's Human YT Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 335	No he isn't roached at all! LOL I posted a pic of his back. I was just trying to say that he isn't a show dog. It's almost straight. __________________ Ashley Toby

12-04-2005, 08:42 PM	#7
feminvstr Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 4,398	you need to have your pup evaluated by a reputable breeder in your area or search the YTCA listing in your city...Most will be honest whether he would be a good stud canidate. There is much more to your little man than his baby pictures will show a picture can't capture his conformation, butt, legs, gait, topline etc. He is far too young to give a proper opinion he should be looked at around 7-8 months old. __________________ Kimberly

12-04-2005, 08:53 PM	#8
Toby's Human YT Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 335	Yes I was planning on doing that as well, but I know that alot of you on here know alot about this, and had alot to say to the last person that posted on here about wanting to breed there yorkie, so I figured I would take a shot at it. I want to do what is right, and I am not even saying that I am going to make it an all the time thing, just something that I have been contimplating. __________________ Ashley Toby

12-05-2005, 05:35 AM	#9
wnalegria Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indianapolis Indiana Posts: 816	He does look like he is a bit roached back and his tail is lowset. Pictures are hard when trying to stack a yorkie. I am terrible with picture taking. There is more then looks when you decide to breed. Look at his pedigree. Do you know anything about his ancestry? What are his knees like- does he have LP? what is his bite like? What is the texture of his coat. It is hard to look at some pictures and say go- I would suggest that you try and find a mentor close to you with yorkies. They can go over a lot of things with you and point out the positive and the bad of your puppy. Go to a dog show look at the six month old babies that are in the ring- talk to some of those breeders. All of this can be used to help you make the right decision for you and your little guy. __________________ Kathy http://klsyorkshireterriers.com

12-05-2005, 06:23 AM	#10
YorkieRini Livin' La Yorkie Local Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,607	Well he is definitely a cute puppy that's for sure. Expressive eyes, cute face, ears up, nice color. However, I would not breed him judging by the pics alone. He appears to have a softer coat, roached back and low tailset. Right now he looks gangly, long legged and long in body. But it could be the funky stage. I am just giving you my opinion as to what I would be thinking if he were a pup I produced. I have tried to have opinions on my pups from pictures and it's just not possible to be fair or accurate. Like Kathy said LP and bite are also huge factors to consider as well. It would be best to have a hands on evaluation by a professional in your area. Why would you like to breed Toby? Irene __________________ Irene www.stellaryorkies.com "Live everyday as it if it were your last!"

12-05-2005, 07:30 AM	#12
YorkieRose YT 4000 Club Member Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 7,207	Toby So you breed him and what do you have..a stud dog..do you want a stud dog? Is it your goal to breed Yorkies? Are you planning on getting a female? Was there a reason for clipping his coat so early? IMO, Toby is a lovely pet, but not a breed quality male..I am brutally honest , so never ask for my opinion unless you want it. __________________ Pat, Kate, Becca and Pinkkee Prim

12-05-2005, 07:47 AM	#14
wnalegria Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Indianapolis Indiana Posts: 816	The picture that I looked at had your baby standing- that is where I noticed the back and the placement of his tail. A dog either has a straight topline or does not- there are no in betweens. You stated you had other breeders to look at you dog. What did they tell you? Are they show breeders? What did you vet say to you about breeding? LP is a common problem with many breeds of dogs- I encourage you to do some more research before you consider breeding your guy. I will take it your vet has not checked your guy for LP on any of your visits. Most vets will tell you the status of your baby with a basic check up. Maybe he did tell you and you misunderstood whaat he was talking about. Ask your vet to check your guy. Do research on LP. I challenge you to figure out what LP is and tell us what you have learned. Welcome to Yorkie 101 you have a lot of time to ask questions and read about our breed. He is a cutie and the love of your life I am sure- would I consider him breeding quality- IMO no. __________________ Kathy http://klsyorkshireterriers.com

12-05-2005, 08:04 AM	#15
Toby's Human YT Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 335	This is what I found. Normally, the voice box (the "larynx") opens as the dog inhales and partially closes during exhaling. Laryngeal paralysis (LP) occurs when the nerves controlling the voice box slowly but progressively lose their function. When dogs normally breath, the voice box is opened permitting inhaled air to pass to the lungs. LP diminishes that ability when the tissue folds edging the sides of the voice box either do not move at all or move out of time with the phases of breathing. One or both these vocal folds may be affected. “This syndrome has been reported as a congenital (present at birth) problem in the Bouvier des Flandres, Siberian Husky and Dalmatian breeds,” according to the U. California at Davis Vet Medicine's “Book of Dogs,” 1995 ed., pp. 289-290. Thus, LP slowly narrows the dogs' airway making breathing progressively difficult. The condition can occur in any breed and at any age but veterinarians report it to be most common in older dogs of large breeds. I now definitely know of two Dalmatians with LP - my own male and a bitch Symptoms during early LP can be merely changes in the sound of barking as if debarked or with laryngitis. Frequent coughing and clearing-of-the-throat may be seen plus slight panting for no detectable reason. The dog's breathing can sometimes sound like the wheezing of an asthmatic. As LP worsens, the dog pants strenuously after the slightest exercise or mildest excitement. (The normal reaction is to inhale more at these times but becomes a drastic struggle as LP narrows the airway.) I think I am going to take all of your advice and not breed him. You all are right. I am just being crazy. So if your dog doesn't have a straight topline he/she is automatically considered roach backed? I didn't know that. Thanks! __________________ Ashley Toby