Well, DAD-GUM-IT!!!!!!!!

[beebiz0013]

Hello all! I am new to this site... but, not new to Yorkies... the biggest little dogs in the world!!!

I have a situation that I need some advice about. BTW... I do plan on calling a vet. But, he is out of town until next week. And, I wanted to get your input for now.

I have a 5 lb. Yorkie female who is 4 years old. She is in heat. And, I was planning on breeding her to my little male. A neighbor came over yesterday and brought his 20 lb. Min-Pin/Beagle male. Having a torn up stomach, at the door, I had to immediately run for the bathroom as fast as I could. Just before I cam out of the bathroom, I heard my little girl screaming. I hurriedly finished my "business" and ran to see about my baby. And, I found a horrid site... that behemoth had my baby down, was inside her and "hooked up" with her! I thought she would NEVER get lose from him!!!

My immediate thoughts were to kill the monster! Then, I wondered about a "morning after" or abortion shot or pill for dogs. I did my research and found that the mis-mate shot that they used to use has a high mortality rate. So, I AM NOT going that route!! But, I would like to be able to breed her in the future. So, I don't like the idea of surgical abortion or C-section either!

My question is this... given this information... what would you do if this were your baby that you wanted to keep as a breeder??? Do you think she should be able to have the babies vaginally?? She's had 3 Yorkie litters already... without ANY problems or complications. But, this 20 pound guy is NO Yorkie!!!!

And, I don't mean any disrespect... but, please don't answer with the admonishing "You should have's... You could have's," or "Why didn't you's." Please believe me when I tell you that they have ALL been in the forefront of my thoughts since this happened!!! And, I have come to one conclusion. The next time such a situation arises... I will put her up BEFORE I go to the toilet!! Even if it means crapping in my britches!!!!!!!!

Thank you in advance for any "constructive" advice you may have!!

[Bitsy]

I think a surgical abortion or emergency spay are your best if not only options. Your poor girl....this just breaks my heart for her. In my opinion, her very life is at risk if you allow her to carry these pups.

Just wanted to add....you can always buy another dog to breed...but if she doesn't make it through this you can't get her back.

Please let us know what you decide.

[francis53]

I'm sorry, but I think the only thing you can do is to spay her now. Anyway, that is what I would do if it were my dog. I would never allow her to try and deliver pups from a male that size

[xmasbaby75]

I agree. It is way too dangerous for her to try and deliver these pups. If she were mine I would be doing an emergency spay. Sorry this happened to you.

[gemy]

Holy crap. Okay is there another repro vet you can talk to, I know your vet is out of town. I did not realize the mismate pill had a high mortality rate.

She has successfully birthed three litters - were the pups all of average birth weight? Just ruminating on if it would be possible for her birth canal to whelp a double size birth weight pup? Well a min/pin doesn't have a broad skull - that is one good thing about it.

Another question is if she has to have a C section - then in all likelihood the best you could hope for is one more litter - as it is my understanding once a C section then no more natural whelping.

I suppose for me I would wait see if she is pregnant, then prepare for a C section. I also would be talking to my "friend" as in my opinion he had no right to allow any mating to happen when you were in the washroom. Ante up fellow.

Good luck with your decision.

[beebiz0013]

First... thank you for the quick replies!! Second, thank you for not bashing me with the admonishing replies like I outlined in my OP!!!

IF she is pregnant (when this kind of luck comes around, you know there's a 99% chance she is ), I figured a surgical abortion or c-section and spaying would be my only options... especially considering the fact that he is FOUR TIMES her size!!!! And, if it comes down to that... that's what will happen! After all... she is more important to me than a bazillion future pups!!

Gemy... we have 2 local vets that I know about. One is my vet... trust him completely!! The other one... well... let's just say this... and, without any names... I wouldn't trust that one to give my dog a vitamin!!!!!

Mismate: Actually, I was talking about a shot... not a pill. Didn't know there was a safe pill. If you know of one, please advise!!! And, I actually mistated in my OP. The shot itself does not have a high mortality rate. HOWEVER, it does cause a particular side affect that has a high mortality rate. According to a couple of sites that I read, it can cause a deadly uterine infection. According to the information, it did so in 25% of the dogs studied. A 1 in 4 chance is just to high for me!

After your question and comment, I have done some more research. I have found out that there is a drug called Dexamethasone that is used to cause the female to absorb the pups or abort them. According to this article, it is safe and highly effective as abortion medication. And, it does not interfere with future pregnancies like the mismate shot can.

It is a sterroid that comes in an injectable and in an oral pill form. I have used the injectable before for other things with no problems.

Most of the pups from her previous litters were of what I would consider to be and "average" size for Yorkie babies. But, she has had a couple that were almost twice the size of the others. It took longer for them to be born. And, they didn't come flying out like a watermelon seed from a person's mouth. But, she didn't seem to have all that much trouble having them. But, again... this time we're talking a male that is 4 times her size!!

If c-section is the only option, she will NEVER be bred again!! I've seen a dog whose uterus ruptured during whelping after a c-section. The lady lost her dog. And, it was NOT a pleasant thing to witness!!

When he gets back, I will discuss this with my vet. But, I'm sure he will take the "let's wait and see if she's pregnant" approach. I like this idea. I will also talk to him about using the Dexamethasone and see what he says. If she is pregnant and he recommends against using it, surgical abortion and spaying will be the way I will go!!

And, BTW... if surgical abortion and spaying is the route we HAVE to go... my neighbor WILL be getting the bill!! And, if he don't want to pay it... it will be, "Hello, small claims court!!!!" After all... it was HE who brought that d*mn monster into MY home... knowing full good and well that I raise Yorkies and how small they are!!!!

BTW #2... His dog is NEVER allowed on my property again!!! I still haven't decided about the neighbor, himself!

[Bitsy]

So glad to see that you are putting your dog first. Best of luck to both of you.

[beebiz0013]

Thank you Bitsy! I always put my dogs first. I have 7 Yorkies... all in the house and under foot. And, they are my babies!! Of course... I'm sure there is nobody here who could understand that... right???

[bellemarie]

Originally Posted by beebiz0013

Thank you Bitsy! I always put my dogs first. I have 7 Yorkies... all in the house and under foot. And, they are my babies!! Of course... I'm sure there is nobody here who could understand that... right???

Pah! Never! Sure they are Just dogs after all

My girls are kind enough even to let me share their bed, it's only a double though, so I have to curl up on the blanket at the bottom

I probably would have kicked the male dogs owner in the jewels had I been in your situation- I dont have as good restraint as yourself!

[kjc]

Hi and Welcome to YT!

I agree... and I hope the best for your Momma dog!

[beebiz0013]

Originally Posted by kjc

Hi and Welcome to YT!

I agree... and I hope the best for your Momma dog!

Thank you very kindly for the welcome and for the well wishes for Angel!!

Originally Posted by bellemarie

Pah! Never! Sure they are Just dogs after all

My girls are kind enough even to let me share their bed, it's only a double though, so I have to curl up on the blanket at the bottom

Sounds just like mine!! And, they usually let me sit in my recliner while they are watching TV... IF I am a good boy and show them plenty of attention!!! (where's the "Yorkies Rule" smilie??? LOL)

Originally Posted by bellemarie

I probably would have kicked the male dogs owner in the jewels had I been in your situation- I dont have as good restraint as yourself!

Restraint, my Aunt Fanny!!! I just didn't think of such at the time. All I could think of doing was jamming an extra large, extra long baseball bat all the way up his hind end... followed by a 16 pound bowling ball and explaining to him that what he had just experienced was similar to what Angel just experienced!!!

Good suggestion, though!! I'm tempted to go over to his house and use my 12 pound sledge hammer to ring both his and his dog's jewls! But, as stupid as the guys is, I'm sure he'd be just as clueless as to why I had done it as his dog would be!!!!!

I'm just glad I didn't have a loaded gun in the house at the time... for the dog's sake... AND the owner's sake!!! Besides... I'm allergic to jail cells!!!

[gemy]

BeeBiz keep us updated. I sure hope that the Universe will bless you with a no go on the pregnancy. But I do believe things happen in mysterious ways. there is an old Chinese story that goes; Good Luck, Bad Luck who knows. It is quite long and humorous but essentially points out that sometimes breaking an arm that keeps you out of the army might be construed as good luck.

True story now; a breeder friend of mine who breeds Black Russians, had a lovely girl, this was only her third litter, but she was 4.5 yrs old, and really not intersted in the whole mating thing anymore, so my friend thought what the heck, I'm going to spay her after this litter. She did, and the vet told her, that was a great decision you made, because the walls of her uterus had become very thin. One more breeding; and a whole lot of bad things could have happened. So that was the good luck part of the story. Fast forward one year later; this girl tore a nail whilst playing. Go to vet as bleeding wouldn't stop with various home remedies. Vet examines, prescribes various med's to help co-agulate. Seems to work for about 48 hrs, bleeding begins again. More trips to vets, my friend is saying something is wrong, very wrong, her belly is swollen, vet doesn't listen. to make a long story short and many dollars later, her girl dies. My friend is so upset, vet wants to do a necropsy, my friend says no. An emotional decision, and probably not the best one i n her case. Van Willenbrands perhaps? Who knows.
I know hindsight is wonderful, what if she had tried to research find out why that uterine wall was so thin on a young female on the third litter? would she have found out some underlying disease pathology that might have averted the later death of her female? Sobering thought. the other thing about hindsight, it can help to prepare us for future decisions, a little mental twig that might say, ya know, I think I want to run this test or that test, just to see.

A breeders life and responsibility is not an easy one. I wish you from the bottom of my heart only the best for you and your girl

[jp4m2]

Gail that is such a sad story, it brought tears to my eyes. When I read stories like this it makes me wonder why anyone would want to breed......I don't think many appreciate the seriousness of such an endeavor.....

As an afterthought I was in no way addressing this to the OP it was just referencing breeding in general.....I do hope the OP's situation turns out ok for all involved.....Good luck to you.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by jp4m2

Gail that is such a sad story, it brought tears to my eyes. When I read stories like this it makes me wonder why anyone would want to breed......I don't think many appreciate the seriousness of such an endeavor.....

As an afterthought I was in no way addressing this to the OP it was just referencing breeding in general.....I do hope the OP's situation turns out ok for all involved.....Good luck to you.

I know it is very very sad, devastating for her owner, and those of us (like me who knew this girl from a pup). As a breeder you do know you can lose a bitch through a whole lot of things with respect to whelping et al. And you never go into any mating easily. Lots of planning, forethought, but at the end of the day, you do pray, meditate, beseech the Gods for a safe whelp, for healthy puppies. For this girl, is not a number on a wall, she is a piece of your heart.

Why breed? Good question with many answers. We have fallen in love with this breed. Want to see this breed continue forever. We want you the "purchaser" to fall in love too! Nothing makes a breeder heart sing so loudly as to hear how their puppy buyer enthusies about their pup. Better still five years later and the buyer is still saying, Oh my thank you for this wonderful dog. He/she is everything to me.

There are many pressures on the purebred dog. Of any breed. Each and every breed has something unique to them. Some combination of qualities, temperament, drive, looks etc, that make them special.
The good breeders breed for this whole package. The excellent breeders strive and do improve that whole package.

I hope this makes sense.

[LunasMomma]

I'm sorry that this happened to your girl I'm not a breeder, but been around here long enough to know that breeders put a ton of time, effort, and love into their dogs, and it just stinks that because of your idiot neighbor, you may have to spay her. I am wishing you all the best and hope that all comes out well.