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05-31-2011, 07:03 AM | #1 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 192
| Questions about what I read (NOT a rehash :D) Okay, I DON'T want to restart what definitely turned into a negative thread... But I just read almost all of thread about 'Marshall Dillon'. Like I said, I don't want to stir emotions and the content of that thread is not what really concerns me. My question, after going through it, is this: if you don't start a breeding program by acquiring a dog from someone else's lines... How do you start one? Obviously, you don't buy an already finished dog. That much I garnered from the post mentioned. But it says several times that 'you have to start with a solid foundation'. But.. How? And by lines... Does that really mean that the dogs have been inbred? Is that what line-breeding is? Don't get me wrong. I understand that there has to have been some degree on inbreeding in order to establish the set characteristics of any breed of dog... I just was wondering if that was how a solid foundation was created? I don't breed, although I would like to one day after I retire (I'm 26, so not for a loooong time!), but I am interested in knowing all I can about breeding and how to go about it ethically and successfully. The thread I read, while heated, brought to my attention certain aspects of ethical breeding that would never have occured to me otherwise... Namely that you can't just buy a pretty, CH. dog and start a great breeding program up! So... How do you start a breeding program, if it's not with a CH. (what I thought meant "approved for breeding") dog? Sorry if this is a dumb question! I'm just curious to know how the experts did it!!! Oh, and to reiterate, I am NOT a breeder! I have two spayed girls, and that's all I will have for many years to come! |
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05-31-2011, 07:44 AM | #2 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida
Posts: 1,043
| Yor start with a good breeder/show mentor...this person teaches you everything you need to know about showing and breeding...this can take years...than once you earn her trust and respect...she might co-own a male or female with you...you must CH that pup before allowed to breed and/or before he/she gives you full owner ship...I learnt this from my breeder...I'm not a breeder, All my babies are spayed and neutered..but I lived next door to my breeder for 13 years so I learned alot.
__________________ Jennifer R.I.P Bailey Bella Harley Ivy Baby Milo |
06-07-2011, 12:01 PM | #3 | |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Quote:
And yes you will pick your mentor carefully, as carefully as she/he will agree to mentor you. Essentially the best way is to earn the trust and respect of a reputable breeder; to sit at their feet and learn from them. So starting with a solid foundation in terms of breeding stock, will be eased in for you, by your reputable breeder/mentor. And don't be surprised the first female or male of her, or another's line will for sure be co-owned. With strict rules about breeding and how your relationship in terms of this line and this dog will work. And you will by this time have helped to championship one or two of your breeders dogs, and will be entrusted to Championship one or two of your own dogs. So for you right now, it is study study study time. Attend shows, learn the lines by examining pedigrees, take courses on genetics, read everything you can about the standard, take courses on structure, start to develop an "eye for a dog". Learn all you can and keep that learning current about the health problems of Yorkies. Ask lots of questions of everyone. Become a known face at the shows. Okay because I'm kind of a person who likes structure; here are some of the arenas you want to learn and develop over time an expertise in; Standard: Study it inside and out. Know it's contents by heart. Structure: Train your eye to observe a dog moving. Train your hands to palpate the dog. First get to know the terms, then to intellectually understand them. For eg: roach backed, rolling, straight shoulders, sickle hocked, toeing in or out, narrow/deep chest, low tailset, gay tail, earset, top loin, loin, croup, etc etc. There are many good books on a dogs structure. Head shape, bite. Movement: How to recognize correct movement for the Yorkshire terrier. Seeing movement faults. Coat and color Temperament: what are the temperament tests; compare contrast. Showing in the ring: How to, what judges look for Genetics: Inheritance factors, basic genetic terms, such as recessive, dominant polygenetic, etc. What are the Yorkies health concerns thought to be from a genetic base? How to understand a pedigree, what are the health databases, and what do they show? Health concerns of Yorkies. What are they? Their inheritance factors, their commonality, their rareness? Breeding a huge topic which links all of the above, plus health screenings, care of the pregnanat bitch, successful whelping and rearing of puppies, screening potential buyers,etc etc. And most important before all of the above; Why do you want to breed? To become an excellent breeder, takes years of not only the studying as elaborated above, but also by breeding, by showing. If you have a passion to leave this breed better than when you found it; is an admirable goal.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 | |
06-07-2011, 01:13 PM | #4 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Los Angeles, California, USA
Posts: 12,693
| Gemy definitely answered your question and then some. If I remember the thread correctly, I believe the issue there was acquiring dogs from a certain lineage through "the back door" just so the produced puppies can then be advertised as having "such and such" in their background. In other words, one does not just go out there, pay $$$$$$$$$ for a dog with X, Y, and Z in their background and commence breeding. In order to really earn the right to have a pedigree stock, a person must first earn the trust from the owner of said background. Like gemy said, you study at he mentor's feet for a while, learning before the owning and breeding part actually happens.
__________________ Littlest JakJak We miss you Kaji |
06-07-2011, 04:18 PM | #5 |
Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama
Posts: 11,432
| Some very good responses above. It's not uncommon to see the excuse tossed around that "everyone has to start somewhere." Well, obviously. IMO the difference is in how one starts their program. Do they start it after extensive research, testing, and working with a mentor and excellent vet, and with quality, healthy representations of the breed or by acquiring any two dogs and trying to 'pick it up as they go along.' The latter is what people generally take issue with. I have never seen anyone criticized for breeding responsibly. |
06-11-2011, 07:39 AM | #6 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 192
| Quote:
But back to the topic at hand. I once read a PDF on the structure of the YT (I wish I knew where I found it, because it was WONDERFUL, even if I'm not yet fully capable of conceptualizing everything that it was meant to convey!), and it was at that point that I realized just how little I actually know. The depth of knowledge expressed by this one man (I believe he/she was a judge) really impressed upon me the notion that the process of becoming a great shower/breeder is something that is going to take TIME, DILIGENCE, PATIENCE, and PASSION. It made me realize the importance of hands on experience versus what I can absorb on an intellectual level from books. As for WHY I would want to be a breeder... What a thing to consider! But you're right... If I ever hope to become a knowledgeable and reputable breeder, it's with a clarity of purpose and deliberate intent that I should begin... Even 20 years out So... Apart from a love for dogs in general and the YT breed specifically, it seems to me that the YT breed is almost a victim of it's own popularity. The demand for the Yorkie seems to have given rise to rampid and indiscriminate breeding practices, serving only to keep within the gene pool defects that might otherwise, by careful and selective breeding, be weeded out. The extraordinary physical variations that we see within the YT breed - coat type, size, structure - (I mean how many times have we seen an "is this a yorkie?" thread (not to offend, as I quite enjoy some of those )) don't seem to be as present in other breeds. It's like we are blurring the definition of what a Yorkie is and is not, and there don't seem to be enough breeders who are strategically CAPABLE (not that some, though definitely not all, don't put forth a valiant effort) of bringing the Yorkie back into focus. It seems like the YT breed as a whole needs a lot of WORK... More so than many other breeds. And I think it's possible to bring the YT to the point that we can maintain the traits that we cherish - the fiery, terrier spirit and temperament, the loyalty, the sweetly prideful personality, the beautiful physical characteristics - while virtually eliminating those that we don't want... But WITHOUT limiting the gene pool so dramatically as to negate the protection that gene variations afford a dog's health. I think a Yorkie breed like that would be a miraculous thing to accomplish, and I think it can be done... Meticulously, scientifically... And humanely. And IF it can be done... I'd like be able to say that I've played a small part in doing it (even if I can't say so for the next 20 or so odd years. ) These are just the thoughts and observations of a novice, but I guess, in a nutshell, that's why I would one day like to breed. Soooo.... I think, to start slowly (and dip just the very tip of my big toe into the almost overwhelmingly vast ocean that is breeding ) I'm going to research shows in my area. Per your and others' suggestions, that seems to be the best place to start. So if you have any tips about which sorts of shows would be more beneficial than others to attend, I'd love to hear them! And thank you again for all of the wonderful advice! | |
06-11-2011, 07:50 AM | #7 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 192
| Quote:
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06-11-2011, 08:02 AM | #8 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 192
| Quote:
Sorry, but that analogy helped me to see your point, so I thought I'd share, lol! And thank you! | |
06-11-2011, 12:56 PM | #9 | |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Quote:
The best show to attend is a Yorkie Specialty; if you go to www.ytca.org you will see if any of their upcoming roving specialities are near enough to you to attend. Next is an all breed show (AB) is the short form that you will look for when you go to www.akc.org and do a search under events for conformation shows. www.infodog.com is also a good source, as well as www.onofrio.com. These last two are dog show superintendents and will post a judging schedule once all entries are closed for that show. Once the judging schedule is up 7-10 days prior to the show date, you can go online and see how many Yorkies are entered. To learn about how a dogshow works there is a good article on that in www.akc.org. If you can go with a person who is already familiar with dogshows, that would help orient you to this new world. Also just a thought; but often times on the net you can see past specialties held all over the world. The world dog show is in Paris this year and there will be a large number of entries; and likely (at least I hope they will televise over the net). One day I want to attend a World Dog show and also Crufts. I've posted before by one good book to read is called "An eye for a dog", also the video "Dogsteps" is a great tool as well. These two are not Yorkie specific, but very good tools none the less. Good luck and have fun.
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 | |
06-16-2011, 02:15 PM | #10 |
YT 2000 Club Donating Member | Not sure if this is what you saw vs a vs the PDF but here is a link www.yorkiebaby.com/judge.html
__________________ Razzle and Dara. Our clan. RIP Karma Dec 24th 2004-July 14 2013 RIP Zoey Jun9 th 2008-May 12 2012. RIP Magic,Mar 26 2006July 1st 2018 |
06-18-2011, 08:08 AM | #11 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 192
| That is exactly what I read!!! Wow, how did you do that, lol! THANK YOU!!! |
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