curious to having a litter... info please!

[sweet_tikka]

So before you all start to judge and put me down... let me say, I am at the moment NOT a breeder. I have a neutered Pom, and a intact Yorkie female, that I literally just bought on Easter Sunday. You can just read the bold stuff if you're just wanting to quick reply and skip my story telling lol

She is seriously the most amazing dogs I've owned yet, minus the potty training we're going through haha. I've had 6 dogs in my 20 year old life, and personality wise none compare to her. She is obedient yet quirky and spunky and crazy, very outdoorsy unlike the little 3lb yorkies, loves fetch and tugowar! I have had some people interested in whether I plan on breeding her or not, and my answer to them: Nope.

But in reality, I would definitely consider a litter from her next fall after she turns 2 years old. She is only 8 months old now, and although I have seen a lot of 1-1.5yr old breeders on kijiji for sale that have already had two litters... this is NOT my plan for her. She is my pet, I love and adore her already she is our little princess! And I only want the best for her.

I do plan on spaying her, whether that be at 1 year old or after her first/only litter as I have no plan to be a full time or even part time breeder. So my questions are...

What is required prior to breeding... vaccines or shots needed?
Are there certain indicators that would show her to be a good candidate for breeding?
Are the death rates for puppies/mothers or "rotten" puppies high in yorkies?
When picking a sire/stud should I look for one that is definitely registered and that will even out the breed's standard qualities?
What is the average litter sizes?
What is the average costs for all the vet bills for the pregnancy and for the care of the puppies? [seperately... like pregnancy total=$xxxx and puppy upkeep total= $xxx from your own experiences]

Here's a little about Tikka... she is 8 months old, weighing in at 7lbs with beautiful colouring right now for her age and what is looking like a good silky coat, a little on the long bodied side and not quite teddy bear faced [which from reading the ACK/CKC standards is okay as their muzzle is to be medium legnth as is hers], but perfectly short/stocky legs. Non registered, came from registered parents though.

If she does not grow a full length coat we will definitely not breed her, as well as if she gets much bigger. Not because I don't think people wouldn't want the puppies, but because I do not want to breed puppies who carry poor traits according the the breeds standard... like growing to be 10+lbs, short coated, wiry/cotton hair, faces that are too long, standing too tall etc. Although I love Tikka no matter what she matures to look like!! <<Do you think that is reasonable/a good idea? I mean what if someone bought a puppy from me and then despite a spay/neuter contract breed the puppy anyways and passed on bad traits as far and the breed's quality/standard... right?


Hopefully this doesn't cause a bunch of drama or negativity... I just want the above questions answered and some opinions on the whole reason why I would decide not to breed her.

[DvlshAngel985]

Have you checked out the YT library for threads on this subject? There is so much to learn before considering to breed. Heck, it's my understanding that there is tons of studying to do before you are even qualified to qualify if a pup is of breeding quality.

Don't feel like I want to discourage you from breeding, because I'm not. I want to discourage you from being a bad breeder. First you must find a mentor to teach you everything there is to know about the yorkie, what constitutes standard, what classes to take on canine genetics, what tests need to be done on the breeding pair, how to study a pedigree, and most importantly of all, find someone who is experienced in breeding yorkies so you know when you and your girl are in trouble.

Personally, from one new(ish-) yorkie momma, don't do it. There is too much risk involved and not much to gain if you into this somewhat blind. It is flattering to have people come up and say they want a pup just like yours. An old co-worker wants to pupnap my boy because she's in love with him. My friend and I have also been approached by random strangers in the street asking if we would breed my neutered boy and her spayed girl because they want a puppy. That's very flattering, but my boy is going to live the lavish life of a spoiled baby instead.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by sweet_tikka

So before you all start to judge and put me down... let me say, I am at the moment NOT a breeder. I have a neutered Pom, and a intact Yorkie female, that I literally just bought on Easter Sunday. You can just read the bold stuff if you're just wanting to quick reply and skip my story telling lol

She is seriously the most amazing dogs I've owned yet, minus the potty training we're going through haha. I've had 6 dogs in my 20 year old life, and personality wise none compare to her. She is obedient yet quirky and spunky and crazy, very outdoorsy unlike the little 3lb yorkies, loves fetch and tugowar! I have had some people interested in whether I plan on breeding her or not, and my answer to them: Nope.

But in reality, I would definitely consider a litter from her next fall after she turns 2 years old. She is only 8 months old now, and although I have seen a lot of 1-1.5yr old breeders on kijiji for sale that have already had two litters... this is NOT my plan for her. She is my pet, I love and adore her already she is our little princess! And I only want the best for her.

I do plan on spaying her, whether that be at 1 year old or after her first/only litter as I have no plan to be a full time or even part time breeder. So my questions are...

What is required prior to breeding... vaccines or shots needed?
Are there certain indicators that would show her to be a good candidate for breeding?
Are the death rates for puppies/mothers or "rotten" puppies high in yorkies?
When picking a sire/stud should I look for one that is definitely registered and that will even out the breed's standard qualities?
What is the average litter sizes?
What is the average costs for all the vet bills for the pregnancy and for the care of the puppies? [seperately... like pregnancy total= and puppy upkeep total= from your own experiences]

Here's a little about Tikka... she is 8 months old, weighing in at 7lbs with beautiful colouring right now for her age and what is looking like a good silky coat, a little on the long bodied side and not quite teddy bear faced [which from reading the ACK/CKC standards is okay as their muzzle is to be medium legnth as is hers], but perfectly short/stocky legs. Non registered, came from registered parents though.

If she does not grow a full length coat we will definitely not breed her, as well as if she gets much bigger. Not because I don't think people wouldn't want the puppies, but because I do not want to breed puppies who carry poor traits according the the breeds standard... like growing to be 10+lbs, short coated, wiry/cotton hair, faces that are too long, standing too tall etc. Although I love Tikka no matter what she matures to look like!! <<Do you think that is reasonable/a good idea? I mean what if someone bought a puppy from me and then despite a spay/neuter contract breed the puppy anyways and passed on bad traits as far and the breed's quality/standard... right?


Hopefully this doesn't cause a bunch of drama or negativity... I just want the above questions answered and some opinions on the whole reason why I would decide not to breed her.

The fact that you are asking these questions is a good thing. But, the road to breeding is not an easy one. Several things that must be considered. You've touched on a few good questions.

There are a couple of good articles in the library I would suggest you read.

From there reputable breeding starts way before you obtain a dog that you may want to breed because you deem the dog the best you've owned.
You begin by studying the standard, learning it inside and out. Studying pedigrees, finding a very knowlegable, reputable breeder of your chosen breed. One that preferably shows and has produced numerous Champions. This type of person would be your best bet for a teacher and obtain a dog that is a good represention of the breed. However, this person would guide you through the entire process, classes to take; genetic, breeding, whelping and raising a healthy litter. This person would also assist you in finding the right stud that would compliment your bitch.

You asked about tests.....They are numerous and expensive and these tests would need to have been conducted on female and male. But, to start with; Bile Acids for Livershunt; OFA's (done at 2 years of age) checking for Patella's and Hips; CERF's, eyes, heart, kidneys, etc. Now these tests would inform you that male and female do not have said afflictions but, they do not tell you if they are carriers of said afflictions. There is no genetic marker that does that. So at the very minimum Bile Acids and Vaccinations would have to be done on each puppy. And then you would have to provide a guarantee with each puppy to cover any life threatening afflictions.

Again, it's not an easy road....but, if one has a desire, one should do it the right way.

And not to be negative, but it does need to be said. Obtaining a great stud for your girl may be difficult. Most reputable breeders may not allow their studs to be used for public stud. And/or if they do they will only allow them to be bred to females of great pedigrees.

[Mardelin]

I want to add one more thing......Are you prepared to loose your girl? Because it is a possibility....your girl and/or the pups. Whelping a yorkie litter is not an easy endeaver.

You must also have deep pockets. Oh! And if you work the ability to take 12 weeks off of work (this needs to be done to insure that your dam and the pups are kept healthy and you raise a healthy, well socialized litter.

[tjdmom]

What is required prior to breeding... vaccines or shots needed?
Here is the list from YTCA http://www.ytca.org/health_chicnumber.pdf
The bile acid test and throid tests cost me about $250. My vet also examined his patella's as part of his exam. I have not yet gone for the eye test and have not had his hips ofa'd yet.
Are there certain indicators that would show her to be a good candidate for breeding? First and foremost, is health and that can not always be measured. It involves the health history of parents and grandparents and great grandparents. You'll also want to make sure this is a good representation of the breed. Going to dog shows is always a good way to see some really nice Yorkies but sometimes there are some that are not so nice too. A good mentor is worth their weight in gold.
Are the death rates for puppies/mothers or "rotten" puppies high in yorkies?I'm not sure what the death rates are for mothers. I've read that about 30% of puppies will not survive but that statistic is for puppies not for yorkies specifically so it may even be lower for yorkies puppies than some other breeds.
When picking a sire/stud should I look for one that is definitely registered and that will even out the breed's standard qualities? Yes of course.
What is the average litter sizes? I think I read once 3.3 but I see most litters as being between 1 and 3, sometimes 4 or 5. It's really unusual to see more than 5 although I've seen it happen on here - usually with very large yorkies.
What is the average costs for all the vet bills for the pregnancy and for the care of the puppies? [seperately... like pregnancy total=$xxxx and puppy upkeep total= $xxx from your own experiences]
That really varries. My first litter cost me a little over $2000. That did not include puppy food or incidentals. It included my vet bills and whelping supplies. And I had no emergencies. If you require a c-section, I've heard of people paying $2000 just for that. I had a freind locally pay $1000. Also, if you wind up with a sick puppy, vet bills can add up quickly with that as well!

I would definitly say that if you are thinking of breeding, it's a HUGE commitment. If you are thinking of doing it because you'd like another yorkie... you'd be better off paying for another one than breeding for it yourself. I can't say enough what a huge huge commitment it is and it is definitly not for everyone. Who doesn't love puppies and playing with puppies? But raising them is A LOT of work, worry, cleaning poo, training, missed work, missed sleep. I could go on and on. Having said that, I love it. I get so much satisfaction from being part of what I consider to be a miracle but just like anything there are parts of it that I could do without. I'm trying to be completely honest and if you have any specific questions, please feel free to pm me. But if you do decide that it is something you'd like to pursue, please do tons of research, try to find someone locally who can mentor you or show you the ropes and make sure that you go about this responsibly because I really do believe that we owe them at least that.

[Tcarnagie]

Here is my personal opinion on this subject. Don't breed her. I say this from my heart and my reasons behind it are I am taking care of a litter of 4 puppies that was born to a Yorkie mom who had to have a c-section since her pelvis was not big enough to deliver the puppies without having problems. Cost of c-section was close to $800. Mom would not nurse after having the babies so they had to be bottle feed. Cost for formula was $23 (which the can lasted about 2 weeks in the beginning and a week as they got older) and another $20 in various sizes of bottles to carry them till they were weaned. Mom decided to crash 12 hours after surgery so she had to go to ER Vet and receive IV, antibiotics, blood transfusion and stay the night....Cost $2578.00. Day 2--mom was picked up from ER and taken to her vet (which is cheaper) to get continued IV fluids and antibiotics....cost $120. Went home and later that night mom's stomach started to swell and she was glassy eyed. Went back to ER Vet and found out her whole stomach was infected (Uterus, Stomach and abdominal wall). Stayed night again and received 2nd blood transfusion, more antibiotics and told needed emergency surgery....cost $2346. Next morning (day 3) mom had to go to her vet for emergency surgery and was given less than 20% chance of survival. Surgery went fine...cost was $768. Other expenses were tail docking and dew claw removal on day 5.....$160. Vacinations are $130 for 4 puppies. Not to mention the dog food for both momma and the puppies, potty pads, well vet check ups that both momma and puppies had to get. Dewormer for puppies. In the end we do have 1 healthy momma that still has to have 1 more surgery to remove the urinary stones that came from the breeding and 4 healthy puppies.

You say she is your baby....why would you want to put her through the possible problems that can and do happen? I am not saying that your little girl would have any problems but are you prepared to lose her or put out the money to save her and the puppies if something goes wrong. Problems don't always happen durning normal office hours and the ER vets are extremely high in price but they did save her life. She SHOULD NOT be here today if it wasn't for the 2 vets that took care of her and all the prayers we received from YT.

By the way...this little girl belonged to a 22 year old who thought it would be "neat" to have puppies. Do you think she had the $8000 saved to use to care for momma and the babies??? No!!! Luckily she gave her away before all the problems came along and the lady who got her managed to come up with most of the money and I have taken them from there and paid off the rest of their debts and now coming up with the money to pay for momma's final surgery.

I share this with you so you can see a real life example of what can and does go wrong. These dogs can go downhill real fast and there is no time to sit and wonder what should be done next.

If you still want to breed her then find a mentor and do all the necessary testing ahead of time. Also stock pile money cause emergencies do happen.

I commend you for asking questions first and learning before you jump into anything. That says a lot about your character.

Best of luck in your decision.

[Nancy1999]

You've gotten a lot of great replies, I just want to add that you can never duplicate a dog by breeding it, genetics doesn't work that way, the best chance you have a getting a dog just like her is to breed her parents, and of course, there is cloning.

[sweet_tikka]

I promise I am reading these replies and they are all great! I will give a better reply once Im on my computer this iTouch isn't cutting it as I can't see the text very well!

thanks so far everyone I will be back to re-reply lol

[kjc]

Hi.
I have a female I would love to breed. She's AKC registered and her pedigree has champions all over it. She's a good representative of the breed, carries herself well, moves like oil on water, has personality plus, no health issues, and is a total love bug. On walks, she'll stop and 'point' at squirrels (hysterical), she loves the outdoors, and wants to be with me constantly, until she sees another squirrel.

Tried to find a stud for her. The ones I liked, the owners would not risk breeding their dog to a dog they don't know. Never got past a phone call. In the meantime, I decided that I love her too much to lose her, and that I was being selfish wanting to bring more puppies into the world, even if they did have her traits. There's way too many needing homes already.

I own 3 other dogs, two Yorkies and a Biewer. They each have different, but super personalities. I have come to the conclusion that all Yorkies have great personalities, it takes a good owner to bring it out in some though, as some are tougher than others... they all have their little quirks.

I am a retired Vet tech, and I don't think I would have too much difficulty with whelping a litter and caring for the pups, and I've worked with vets on too many C-sections.

I just cannot bring myself to put this little girl through this, it would rip my heart out if something happened to her and she would die. I could never forgive myself. So I have resigned myself to looking at the breeders and showdogs here on YT, and watching their pups grow up.

Sorry I responded, I am not an experienced breeder, but an experienced wanna-be breeder. I hope hearing my story helps you to make a decision. Good Luck.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by sweet_tikka

I promise I am reading these replies and they are all great! I will give a better reply once Im on my computer this iTouch isn't cutting it as I can't see the text very well!

thanks so far everyone I will be back to re-reply lol

I'm so glad you're reading.

As I said, if you choose to breed, great, but do it the right way.....The journey is long, hard and requires years of training. Studying and doing it the right way, does cut down on some of the genetic problems, but it doesn't eliminate the emergencies.

If you aren't breeding to improve the breed and leave it better than you found it....don't breed.

[FlDebra]

Most of what I would recommend has already been said, but I have a few things to throw in. Why is this puppy NOT registered? You said the parents were. Were they registered AKC or one of the less reputable registries? You mentioned CKC -- I would NEVER breed a CKC pup. Was the puppy not registered due to a problem knowing which sire mated? Is the pup just given limited registration and you are not supposed to breed her? Was there some other issue that made the breeder decide NOT to register the litter? Do the parents both meet the AKC yorkshire Terrier Breed Standards? What about the grandparents on each side? What is the health history of these 7 dogs (including your pup) AND all litters from them that you know of or can find out? Genetics will involve more than just the 2 dogs you breed. If you go back to their parents and grandparents, as well as looking at other puppies from their litters you can get a good idea of what you are dealing with as far as characteristics and health concerns. You want to ask specifically about things like liver shunts and LP (joint problems) which are prevalent in yorkies.

I do NOT recommend she be bred as she is NOT registered. No reputable owner of a registered male who meets the standards is going to allow you access. I am interested in her history and the questions I brought up previously.

I also do NOT recommend you breed this girl because breeding just to have one litter is not a good idea. So much study and dedication is involved to do it right, rarely does that happen for just one litter. You are not going to make any money on the first litter if you do it right. There are just too many expenses, including your own library of reference material, all of the pre-mating testing, CHIC certifications, xrays, blood work, vet exams, whelping kit/box/materials, medications, special foods, etc.....

I also do NOT recommend you breed her because if she is already 7 pounds, chances are very great that she will go over the breed standard of "not over 7 pounds." Some may stop growing at 8 months but most will continue to fill out a little over the next 10 months. The main body composition may be there but they do usually add some girth. If she were to only go over the weight standard by a little (and that was the only standard she was missing), that would not be that bad of a thing -- again, look at the whole family on both sides when thinking size. Even a 5 pound dam with a family history of overly-large pups, should not be considered a good breeding candidate.

You said she was a little on the long-bodied side. Yorkies should be more "square" -- only as long as they are tall. If that were the only thing wrong and all other things were optimum, you could possibly find a male with a family history of shorter-bodied pups to breed with her. But again, I cannot imagine any respectable breeder allowing her sire to breed a non-registered female with an inexperienced owner.

My next question is about your own history -- You said you have had 6 dogs in your 20 years. What happened to all of them? Do you still have them all? Are you speaking YOU had these 6 dogs during your responsible years or were those from your parents during your whole lifetime?

I lost a female on the 3rd day after she gave birth to a litter. Her puppies were all born healthy and perfect. She was registered AKC, within standards, a beautiful, sweet girl who I loved and planned to keep forever. I had studied over 2 years, was well-prepared, had plenty of money set aside for emergencies, and did not plan to or need to make any money from her puppies. I was most interested in trying to breed that "perfect yorkie" that would epitomize the breed standard. I should have been content that someone else had already done that and my 2 yorkies were just perfect for me. I cannot tell you the horrible guilt I feel for having bred her, knowing she would be here with us today, if I had not. If you cannot separate your beloved pet from a breeding dam, I would NOT take the chance. Even the best prepared sometimes come up against an accident they cannot control. But I am haunted by the fact that had I known a little more, been quicker to act, had a mentor with me, I could have prevented her death. Leave breeding to the experts. Unless you decide to become one, do not risk the life of your precious girl.

If you do decide to become one of those expert breeders, the first thing is to make yourself as knowledgeable about yorkies, breeding and dog health as you can. Then, the next step is to find a reputable AKC breeder who has shown her dogs so they have been evaluated by unbiased judges. Ensure she is knowledgeable, experienced, reputable, ethical and LOVES her dogs. Make sure she is willing to be accessible to you for expert advice. Ask her if she would be willing to be your mentor for breeding when the time comes. Once you know you have found the right breeder, THEN you look for the right pup with your mentor's help. Ensure she is AKC registered, from great lines. You will not know if she is breeding potential until about 8 months old. Some say 6, some say 12 months. I am giving you a happy medium. Then when you have decided, and had at least 2 experts agree that she is breed standard and breeding quality, you can start your search for the complimentary male. You are going to have to have a detailed analysis of your dog's physical characteristics. Then you need to learn the basics of genetics to know how to compliment those characteristics with a male. Some things are simple with a trait being dominant or recessive. Some traits are a combination of genetic markers and it can get very complicated. Best to ask for advice and also best to stick with 2 dogs that are all within the standard. That way no matter whose traits the puppies wind up with -- they are still within standard themselves.

[FlDebra]

You'd think after writing a tome like I did, I could not have left anything out but I did! And it took me so long to read what I wrote, I could not edit it!

So.... where I said "Then when you have decided, and had at least 2 experts agree that she is breed standard and breeding quality, you can start your search for the complimentary male." I should have also included "and completed all of her pre-mating testing and a vet evaluation" between those 2 steps!

This is so important for your girl and future puppies. You will get a host of blood work to include testing her liver (bile acid test), STDs, anemia, brucellosis, bleeding/clotting disorders, any deficiencies, xray of joints so she can get OFA certified, heart & eyes checked for more certification (CERF) and a CHIC number -- which certifies she has been certified (really!)

Momma continues with lots of checkups all along. Xrays of puppies, maybe even an ultrasound. Then after, you may need to bring her in for a shot and check up by your vet. The more checking she has the better chance of catching one of those "hard to spot until it is late" problems.

Sorry for being so verbose -- it is a curse!

[sweet_tikka]

oh no Debra not a curse very helpful actually! there more people write the more I can leaden and know exactly what to research and talk to my vet about... again I will give a better reply to you all when I'm at my computer and not my iTouch lol the small text hurts my eyes! and my hubby is using the computer lol

also I believe she may have started her "period" today as I noticed the crustiness and thought she peed in the house somewhere but I looked closer and sure enought dry blood... 8 months is that about right for her to start and at this time of year? what do you guys do during your females periods to keep blood from potentially getting on the bed or carpet? so far it isn't messy at all not a drop anywhere it seems to dry and get crusty. Should I be washing it for good hygene?

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by sweet_tikka

oh no Debra not a curse very helpful actually! there more people write the more I can leaden and know exactly what to research and talk to my vet about... again I will give a better reply to you all when I'm at my computer and not my iTouch lol the small text hurts my eyes! and my hubby is using the computer lol

also I believe she may have started her "period" today as I noticed the crustiness and thought she peed in the house somewhere but I looked closer and sure enought dry blood... 8 months is that about right for her to start and at this time of year? what do you guys do during your females periods to keep blood from potentially getting on the bed or carpet? so far it isn't messy at all not a drop anywhere it seems to dry and get crusty. Should I be washing it for good hygene?

Yes -- she is right in the ballpark of having her first heat. I used little doggy diapers made for dogs in heat. There are several vendors here that make them. I do not think the vendor I used is still on YT. But here is one: Washable Dog Diapers by T. Bumpkins & Co. and Doggie Pee Pads and here is an example of disposable diapers you can get at Petsmart http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2752016 This is a good answer for you since there is no time to order the custom made ones for this heat.

Time to make some serious security plans for keeping her away from any potential male suitors. They can be relentless when she is in her most potent week.

[gemy]

Just wanted to point out this OP is from Canada. CKC here means Canadian Kennel Club.
Having said that reputable breeders will register their litters with CKC and they are required to transfer the registration to the new owner/puppy buyer at time of sale.
So I'm confused as to why her dog is NOT registered.