Two litters Dead - YorkieTalk.com Forums

HannahandMo · 11-26-2010, 06:02 PM

My "mentor of sorts". (I've emailed her about various issues over the years) has had two litters that have died in the past month. (One of them was today)!!!She has 4 girls altogether. She said these babies have been born hairless? and pinkish-brownish in color? I requested a picture from her to post. Hope to get one shortly. She said they were born dead. I know she's been breeding for 11 years all together. New dams and sires the past 6 years due to a theft. Anyway the other two litters these girls had over the 6 years were perfect. What gives?? All I know is that she said it was greenish and I know that is a bad sign...but for 9 puppies to die??? I thought I'd post here for some more knowledge as I'm afraid she doesn't seem to know. ( I don't think I'll be asking for more info

HannahandMo · 11-26-2010, 06:08 PM

Well I guess I should have waited and check my email first. Here is the pictures. I can't even tell what color it is but she said its a darkish pink/brownish color?

HannahandMo · 11-26-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HannahandMo

My "mentor of sorts". (I've emailed her about various issues over the years) has had two litters that have died in the past month. (One of them was today)!!!She has 4 girls altogether. She said these babies have been born hairless? and pinkish-brownish in color? I requested a picture from her to post. Hope to get one shortly. She said they were born dead. I know she's been breeding for 11 years all together. New dams and sires the past 6 years due to a theft. Anyway the other two litters these girls had over the 6 years were perfect. What gives?? All I know is that she said it was greenish and I know that is a bad sign...but for 9 puppies to die??? I thought I'd post here for some more knowledge as I'm afraid she doesn't seem to know. ( I don't think I'll be asking for more info

greenish discharge before pup was whelped.

Lorraine · 11-26-2010, 06:15 PM

Sounds like both litters had died and that is what started labour. The placenta detaches and delivery occurs. If they are hairless, they would be premature. I would test the dams and sires for brucellosis to start with. I can't recall if it could possibly be other STD's possible. But seeing a good repro Vet would be a good idea before breeding any more litters.
The green is from the placenta detaching.

kjcmsw · 11-26-2010, 06:17 PM

I'd be guessing, but they looked premature...if born on schedule, then it looks like they simply quit developing in utero at some point. How sad. Was both litters to the same dam? Maybe she can't maintain her pregnancies anymore due to an infection or something. It happens to people. Thyroidism can cause human babies to stop developing and die in utero....she should have the dam thoroughly checked, and tests done on one of the dead babies.

YorkieRose · 11-26-2010, 07:18 PM

I agree...time for the vet to do some smears for STD's, bacterical infections, virus etc..blood work for the sire and dams..and I would disinfect everything the dogs touch..toss out beds and toys..etc Best wishes...

FlDebra · 11-26-2010, 07:58 PM

My first guess would also be Brucellosis. I wrote quite a bit on this subject on one of the other threads. It is quite contagious and will move through a kennel quickly. There is no cure, but they can save the adults, need to treat with antibiotics. Will probably need to spay and neuter those affected though. This can ruin a kennel. Here is just one article of MANY online. Dogs In Canada Magazine -- Brucellosis It specifically explains just as you have, spontaneous abortion and the green discharge.

FlDebra · 11-27-2010, 03:05 AM

If it does turn out to be brucellosis -- this realy shows why you need to run the STD tests a couple weeks before mating. If caught before mating, then there would be no dead litters now. So many short cut the testing. Some think it is so rare no need to worry. Everything written recently is telling me Brucellosis is on the increase and better be a concern of any breeder.

There are other possibilities for this instance so not saying that is definately the case.

YorkieRose · 11-27-2010, 05:09 AM

That was my thought also...poster mentioned breeder brought in new dogs...a simple blood test for all new stock...even from the best of breeders can prevent heartbreak...I hope it is not brucellosis, all dogs will need to be S/N...

k Owensk9 · 11-27-2010, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Sounds like both litters had died and that is what started labour. The placenta detaches and delivery occurs. If they are hairless, they would be premature. I would test the dams and sires for brucellosis to start with. I can't recall if it could possibly be other STD's possible. But seeing a good repro Vet would be a good idea before breeding any more litters.
The green is from the placenta detaching.

this is my thought exactly---(Brucellosis) Bangs as cattleman call it is a disaster in the cattle business---caused abortions and renders most sterile--bulls and cows !! It has caused big problems in kennels as well--hunting dogs--show dogs all can be effected. And once they have it--my understanding is they have it till death. People need to have stud dogs checked for bangs--and never have a bitch on your place unless it's tested. It's bad news !!!

maggiesmom_2007 · 11-27-2010, 08:00 AM

After having your vet test for Brucellosis make sure they also do testing for any viral and bacterial, also have them check the thyroid and have a repro check her Progesterone . I am only saying this because I went through this earlier this year with a female of mine. She had normal litters before but this one time she had a sudden onset of green discharge, I took her to the vet they took a sample of the discharge and checked for any viruses and also for bacteria. They then did an ultrasound and xrays. There were still 2 live pups inside with very strong heartbeats and they were moving around so they advised me to take her home and keep her relaxed. Well I did what I was told and her body had other plans. she delivered 3 partially absorbed fetuses and one whole one that looked just like the pic you posted. I have since had her thoroughly tested just in case the previous tests missed something I also had the fetuses tested. From what I was told is they cannot definitely determine what caused it but they know for sure what didn't. They also advised me to try another breeding with the same male. My point is there can be a number of reasons why it happens. It could be viral, bacterial, hormonal, genetic, environmental or simply the food or it could have just been that the females body wasn't ready or the pups weren't right. For me I have ruled out most of these, now i am going to follow my repro vets advice and breed her again, but if this happens again then she will definitely be fixed, if it doesn't then maybe I can help others who have had this happen.

BamaFan121s · 11-29-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HannahandMo

Anyway the other two litters these girls had over the 6 years were perfect.

Just caught this...if they've had 'litters over the 6 years' then how old are the females, exactly? 7, or older? If she's been breeding these two gals for that long, then in addition to all else, they are too old to be used for breeding.

Nancy1999 · 11-29-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Just caught this...if they've had 'litters over the 6 years' then how old are the females, exactly? 7, or older? If she's been breeding these two gals for that long, then in addition to all else, they are too old to be used for breeding.

Good point! Sadly, dogs can breed their entire lives, and many people who haven't studied breeding think that this means it's okay for the dog to breed its entire life.

YorkieRose · 11-29-2010, 01:47 PM

If these girls have been bred often over a period of years, the uterus can be worn out and has lost the ability to hold a litter..another problem can be a ruptured uterus as a bitch ages...

maggiesmom_2007 · 11-29-2010, 02:42 PM

Pat and Nancy are correst. if these girls are 6 or over they should not have been bred in the first place. I must admit I did not see that at first. But nonetheless I hope anyone coming across this problem takes their Bitch to the vet immediately. It can cause some serious problems and possibly death if not taken care of immediately.

11-26-2010, 06:02 PM	#1
HannahandMo Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Palm Coast, FL US Posts: 126	Two litters Dead My "mentor of sorts". (I've emailed her about various issues over the years) has had two litters that have died in the past month. (One of them was today)!!!She has 4 girls altogether. She said these babies have been born hairless? and pinkish-brownish in color? I requested a picture from her to post. Hope to get one shortly. She said they were born dead. I know she's been breeding for 11 years all together. New dams and sires the past 6 years due to a theft. Anyway the other two litters these girls had over the 6 years were perfect. What gives?? All I know is that she said it was greenish and I know that is a bad sign...but for 9 puppies to die??? I thought I'd post here for some more knowledge as I'm afraid she doesn't seem to know. ( I don't think I'll be asking for more info

11-26-2010, 06:15 PM	#4
Lorraine Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Abbotsford, BC Posts: 2,060	Sounds like both litters had died and that is what started labour. The placenta detaches and delivery occurs. If they are hairless, they would be premature. I would test the dams and sires for brucellosis to start with. I can't recall if it could possibly be other STD's possible. But seeing a good repro Vet would be a good idea before breeding any more litters. The green is from the placenta detaching. __________________ Lorraine www.loribenyorkies.com Canada

11-26-2010, 07:58 PM	#7
FlDebra Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: FL Posts: 7,651	My first guess would also be Brucellosis. I wrote quite a bit on this subject on one of the other threads. It is quite contagious and will move through a kennel quickly. There is no cure, but they can save the adults, need to treat with antibiotics. Will probably need to spay and neuter those affected though. This can ruin a kennel. Here is just one article of MANY online. Dogs In Canada Magazine -- Brucellosis It specifically explains just as you have, spontaneous abortion and the green discharge. __________________ FlDebra and her ABCs Annie, Ben, Candy Promoting Healthy Breeding to the AKC Yorkshire Terrier Standard

11-27-2010, 03:05 AM	#8
FlDebra Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: FL Posts: 7,651	If it does turn out to be brucellosis -- this realy shows why you need to run the STD tests a couple weeks before mating. If caught before mating, then there would be no dead litters now. So many short cut the testing. Some think it is so rare no need to worry. Everything written recently is telling me Brucellosis is on the increase and better be a concern of any breeder. There are other possibilities for this instance so not saying that is definately the case. __________________ FlDebra and her ABCs Annie, Ben, Candy Promoting Healthy Breeding to the AKC Yorkshire Terrier Standard

11-27-2010, 08:00 AM	#11
maggiesmom_2007 YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,991 Blog Entries: 13	After having your vet test for Brucellosis make sure they also do testing for any viral and bacterial, also have them check the thyroid and have a repro check her Progesterone . I am only saying this because I went through this earlier this year with a female of mine. She had normal litters before but this one time she had a sudden onset of green discharge, I took her to the vet they took a sample of the discharge and checked for any viruses and also for bacteria. They then did an ultrasound and xrays. There were still 2 live pups inside with very strong heartbeats and they were moving around so they advised me to take her home and keep her relaxed. Well I did what I was told and her body had other plans. she delivered 3 partially absorbed fetuses and one whole one that looked just like the pic you posted. I have since had her thoroughly tested just in case the previous tests missed something I also had the fetuses tested. From what I was told is they cannot definitely determine what caused it but they know for sure what didn't. They also advised me to try another breeding with the same male. My point is there can be a number of reasons why it happens. It could be viral, bacterial, hormonal, genetic, environmental or simply the food or it could have just been that the females body wasn't ready or the pups weren't right. For me I have ruled out most of these, now i am going to follow my repro vets advice and breed her again, but if this happens again then she will definitely be fixed, if it doesn't then maybe I can help others who have had this happen. __________________ Lori, Friday, Olivia, Miranda , Chanel and Casey

11-26-2010, 06:17 PM	#5
kjcmsw YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Washington Posts: 837	I'd be guessing, but they looked premature...if born on schedule, then it looks like they simply quit developing in utero at some point. How sad. Was both litters to the same dam? Maybe she can't maintain her pregnancies anymore due to an infection or something. It happens to people. Thyroidism can cause human babies to stop developing and die in utero....she should have the dam thoroughly checked, and tests done on one of the dead babies.

11-26-2010, 07:18 PM	#6
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	I agree...time for the vet to do some smears for STD's, bacterical infections, virus etc..blood work for the sire and dams..and I would disinfect everything the dogs touch..toss out beds and toys..etc Best wishes...

11-27-2010, 05:09 AM	#9
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	That was my thought also...poster mentioned breeder brought in new dogs...a simple blood test for all new stock...even from the best of breeders can prevent heartbreak...I hope it is not brucellosis, all dogs will need to be S/N...

11-29-2010, 01:47 PM	#14
YorkieRose No Longer a Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 8,577	If these girls have been bred often over a period of years, the uterus can be worn out and has lost the ability to hold a litter..another problem can be a ruptured uterus as a bitch ages...

11-29-2010, 02:42 PM	#15
maggiesmom_2007 YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,991 Blog Entries: 13	Pat and Nancy are correst. if these girls are 6 or over they should not have been bred in the first place. I must admit I did not see that at first. But nonetheless I hope anyone coming across this problem takes their Bitch to the vet immediately. It can cause some serious problems and possibly death if not taken care of immediately. __________________ Lori, Friday, Olivia, Miranda , Chanel and Casey