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Old 05-11-2010, 06:04 PM   #1
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Default Weak pup with questionable palate issue....

Litter was born this am, 4 in the litter ranging from 3-4 ounces and one is 2 ounces. This little girl is not latching on at all that I can tell. I have tried to look at the palate but being so small it almost impossible to see in there. She has a strong cry and gets right up with the other 3. I put her on the nipple and push it in gently and she attempts to nurse but no suction at all. While trying to nurse she cries and pushes with her nose. So I have been tube feeding her today and will overnight. I will take her to the vet in the am.
My question is for the experienced breeders. If she has cleft palate would you attempt to save this pup? Or would it be more humane to put her down?
I have had 3 cleft pups in 10 years and 1 survived but has issues with drinking water and it needs to be thickened the other 2 got pneumonia and died at 5 days or so. Worse part is this one has a very strong will to nurse and mom is very attentive to her....
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:37 AM   #2
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What was the outcome at the vet?

3 clefts in 10 yrs is not enough information...how many pups are we talking about that have been born to your bitches?
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:32 AM   #3
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Just returned from the vet..no cleft no problems at all that the vet can detect. So what now?
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Old 05-12-2010, 11:39 AM   #4
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What was the outcome at the vet?

3 clefts in 10 yrs is not enough information...how many pups are we talking about that have been born to your bitches?
Sorry, the clefts were 2 in one litter..both male and female were spayed and neutered and placed in loving pet homes. I also owned the sister to the female, I spayed her also with never breeding her. The one surviving pup is the girl I have now in my pics..Emma with quite a few health issues that I have kept here. She is a very tiny pup that I would call a runt for sure. Her littermates are healthy and no issues.
So now that it is not a cleft why else would a pup not latch on...
I use the whelping nest so the pup is nice and toasty warm but she is half the size of the other pups. Mom is 6.2 pounds and Dad is 4 pounds. Grandparents are all in the 5-7 pound range.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:03 PM   #5
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Here is an interesting article that may help some. I have used the glucose recipe listed in paragraph 10 on several occasions when I have had very small pups but the pups were able to latch on their own. Your pups could have something else going on. Sometimes if the pup has a very small hole in the back of it's mouth it is hard to see. Will the pup nurse from a bottle?

http://www.showpapillons.com/formula.htm

Have you tried putting a little corn syrup on the moms nipple? Are the moms nipples too large for the pup to latch on to?

I hope the little one starts to latch on and do well. Please keep us posted.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:34 PM   #6
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Just returned from the vet..no cleft no problems at all that the vet can detect. So what now?
The only thing I would do is hand feed the baby until she's strong enough to nurse. With 4 littermates being much bigger, it's not likely she'll get the opportunity to nurse unless you let her have the milk bar to herself while the teats are full. Some of the little ones just don't have the strength at first to work a teat so the only thing to do is hand feed. I've never tube fed (I use an eye dropper) but if you're comfortable doing it and it's working, that's good. Not sure what you're feeding, but several of us here have had good results with goat's milk (diluted with equal parts water) and a little karo added to it. There have been safety concerns with some commercial products, notably Esbilac, but the goat's milk is very safe and very digestible.

Once she plumps out a little and gets some vigor, she may be able to nurse. Best of luck.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:44 PM   #7
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Glad the vet found no cleft..

When you have a cleft in a litter, it does not mean you can never breed the sire or dam, again..I would not breed them to each other..many defects never occur again when anotehr stud or dam is use..but I understand your actions.

I would handfeed or tube the puppy until she is able to feed on her own...time will tell if she is healthy. I have had it go both ways...
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Old 05-12-2010, 03:56 PM   #8
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I am indeed using the goats milk (canned) mixed with Karo and water. She has maintained her weight actually gained a half an ounce...but her 3 sibs are growing like weeds. I just feel there is something wrong with her and cannot put a finger on it. Her face and top of her head just look different. I tried to explain this to the vet but she does not see lots of yorkie pups on a frequent basis.
I have tube fed for years also. I am a vet tech and a nurse so I am quite comfortable with it thank goodness. I just do not want to see this tiny thing suffer. I hope I have the heart to take her and put her down if she starts down that slippery slope. I am already getting attached...
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:18 PM   #9
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Does she have a open fontanel? If her head is misshaped it is possible she could have water on the brain. Hopefully she just needs more time and will be just fine. It sounds like you are doing all you can for now.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:05 PM   #10
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The fact that she's gaining is a positive sign. I would just take it a day at a time. There's just so little you can be sure of with a newborn.

I've had little ones before that I've hand fed. Sometimes the progress is slow and they can look like little aliens compared to their littermates. It sounds like the others are thriving and your little one is being left behind , but sometimes they are just slow to take root and develop.

Another thought is that she could be from an egg that was fertilized late and she could be a bit of a preemie compared to the others. There are just so many unknowns that all I would do is deal with what is presented to me and hope for the best. If there is something truly wrong, it will become apparent in time.

Again, best of luck with her. It is beyond exhausting to provide the around-the-clock care such a baby needs but it sounds like you're doing a great job.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:00 PM   #11
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She is still doing fine with the tube feeding and she attempts to nurse often. Momma is cleaning her so she has stayed with the bunch of em.
The vet did not feel an open font...her face looks triangular is the best way to describe it. With her forehead and upper skull looking almost flat. I guess time will tell.
It is a full time job and then some to feed around the clock for sure. I am exhausted and it has only been a few days. Like being a new mom with a newborn except I do not have to change the diapers...lol
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Old 05-13-2010, 03:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by yorkielady06 View Post
My question is for the experienced breeders. If she has cleft palate would you attempt to save this pup?
Me personally, Yes, I have and would save a cleft pup. I was actually able to bottle feed one and now she eats hard food and drinks water from a water bottle and (((knocking on wood))) has never been sick.

I will always put my all in to saving any baby I bring into this world.

Hope your baby is thriving and doing well !!!
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:50 AM   #13
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I am for sure putting my all into her. She is thriving and even gained more weight. She is now a whopping 3 ounces. Her littermates are 5-7 ounces but she is holding her own for now. I am keeping all my fingers and toes crossed for her.
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:39 PM   #14
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Old 05-17-2010, 07:25 AM   #15
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Well so far so good. She is gaining slowly and is thriving quite well. She shoves her way right up to the nipples and attempts to nurse readily but just does not latch on. She "chews" on the nipple and even pushes with her paws and bobs her head like her littermates but without latching. Weirdest thing I have ever seen. So when I go in to tube feed her I let her attempt to nurse before and after feeding her. She is 3.8 ounces and is 1 week old today. Her littermates are all in the 6-9 ounce range.
I plan on another visit to my vet next week after her eyes open if all goes well. Maybe at that point I will get some better clues on this little one.
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