Professional Kennel?

[yorkiepuppie]

do good breeders have kennels or do they keep their dogs in the house?

What should a professional kennel look like?

what's the difference between a good kennel? (show/professional breeders) and a bad kennel?(puppymill)

How many dogs should a good breeder have?

I am trying to learn the difference between a good breeder and a puppy mill.
I have seen on TV what a puppy mill look like, but I am trying to find out what are the signs that a reputable breeder is indeed a good breeder or if they borderline puppy mill?

What things do I look for? # of dogs in the kennel?
The set up of the kennel?
indoor/outdoor?
Smell and cleanliness of the kennel?

Please let me know what you think, I would like to hear your opinion!

[JeanieK]

My dogs are in my house, under my feet.

I would say a kennel is ok if the dogs are kept in 4x4 cubicles and not wire cages.

although most puppy muills will not let you see where the dogs are kept, it might not even be on the property where you go to see the dogs.

Look at their website, if they have 20 puppies for sale and multiple breeds they are probably a mill. do they show the pedigrees of the adults?

Ask for references? or ask around? Google them

The looks and the smell of their home has nothing to do with it because like I said the dogs might not even be at that location.

[WalnutHill]

Most breeders I know keep their dogs in their house. Some I know have kennels.

My opinion of a good kennel - indoor and outdoor access, indoor with solid floor, not wire, outdoor flooring (if any) is plastic grate, not wire. No 'stacking' of dogs on top of each other. Dogs look comfortable, not overcrowded at all, lots of room to run and play and sleep comfortably. Environment is clean... Suitable grooming area, seperate whelping area... A good system for disposal of waste, temperature controlled... Constant access to fresh water... Dogs are clean and groomed properly

Most breeders I know have 15 or less. I do have a good friend who breeds Japanese chins (has bred 78 champions) and she has a kennel with approx 20 breeding dogs.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

My dogs are in my house, under my feet.

I would say a kennel is ok if the dogs are kept in 4x4 cubicles and not wire cages.

although most puppy muills will not let you see where the dogs are kept, it might not even be on the property where you go to see the dogs.

Look at their website, if they have 20 puppies for sale and multiple breeds they are probably a mill. do they show the pedigrees of the adults?

Ask for references? or ask around? Google them

The looks and the smell of their home has nothing to do with it because like I said the dogs might not even be at that location.

thank you. what i am trying to find out is more specific things to look for in a good kennel.

i would prefer and think that it's nice if the dogs don't have to live in a kennel, but at the same time, i don't think having a kennel is an indication that it's not a good breeder. that's why i am trying to learn specific things to look for.

also would like to learn about reputable breeders, specifically, the difference between hobby breeder and larger scale breeder. what is considered expectable size breeding program before it boarderlines a puppy mill.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

Most breeders I know keep their dogs in their house. Some I know have kennels.

My opinion of a good kennel - indoor and outdoor access, indoor with solid floor, not wire, outdoor flooring (if any) is plastic grate, not wire. No 'stacking' of dogs on top of each other. Dogs look comfortable, not overcrowded at all, lots of room to run and play and sleep comfortably. Environment is clean... Suitable grooming area, seperate whelping area... A good system for disposal of waste, temperature controlled... Constant access to fresh water... Dogs are clean and groomed properly

Most breeders I know have 15 or less. I do have a good friend who breeds Japanese chins (has bred 78 champions) and she has a kennel with approx 20 breeding dogs.

thank you for the info.! it's really helpful.

should the dogs each be in their own ex-pen or should they be placed together in a larger expen? or does it just depend on the breeders dogs and situation/preference?

should the dogs be mostly males or females or is that irrelevant and is not an indication of a good or bad kennel/breeder?

[WalnutHill]

This is all just my opinion. I am not an authority.


should the dogs each be in their own ex-pen or should they be placed together in a larger expen? or does it just depend on the breeders dogs and situation/preference?
*I would say that depends on the situation - do the dogs get along with each other? Etc... Certainly males seperated from females unless intending to breed with each other. I would think it would be better for the dogs to be in groups, or at least pairs - it would be awful to be alone all the time. But, even if they live in a kennel, they should be socialized with people dogs, etc. They shouldn't be left in the kennel and never get out.



should the dogs be mostly males or females or is that irrelevant and is not an indication of a good or bad kennel/breeder?

*Generally, I'd think more females than males, but it depends... If you are talking about a serious show breeder, then it would depend on which pups 'turn out' as to which pups are kept into adulthood. But if the purpose is breeding, then more females would make sense. Is there a good balance? 20 females and one male doesn't make a lot of sense. But maybe 4 females and one male or 8 females and 2 males... Also, what is their relationship to one another...

Being able to see the kennel is the most important. You can tell a LOT by how the dogs look and what the kennel looks like. Is it clean and obvious that someone is dedicated to the care of the dogs? Or, does it look like the dogs are getting the minimum care (if any).



We were actually talking about this last month at our local AKC club meeting (well, sort of). Some of the 'old timers' were talking about how there used to be a lot of large, quality kennels with 150 dogs or so - many employees, permanent hired handlers, etc. But, those large kennels don't really exist anymore. It's just too expensive. The only people with that many dogs these days are USDA commercial breeders...

I hope some of my babbling makes sense.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

thank you. what i am trying to find out is more specific things to look for in a good kennel.

i would prefer and think that it's nice if the dogs don't have to live in a kennel, but at the same time, i don't think having a kennel is an indication that it's not a good breeder. that's why i am trying to learn specific things to look for.

also would like to learn about reputable breeders, specifically, the difference between hobby breeder and larger scale breeder. what is considered expectable size breeding program before it boarderlines a puppy mill.

In my opinion, it becomes a puppy mill there are more dogs than the facility can accomodate comfortably. It's not so much the size of a facility, but the conditions that the dogs are kept in.

If a kennel had 100 breeding dogs and the dogs were all kept in a facility that was cared for like the Budwiser Clydesdales stables, then it is not too large. But when the dogs are kept in crates, even if it is only 1 dog, that is not an acceptable facility.

But just because someone shows you a fine facility, does not mean they dlo not have dogs in an another facility somewhere. So you have to look at the big picture.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

This is all just my opinion. I am not an authority.


should the dogs each be in their own ex-pen or should they be placed together in a larger expen? or does it just depend on the breeders dogs and situation/preference?
*I would say that depends on the situation - do the dogs get along with each other? Etc... Certainly males seperated from females unless intending to breed with each other. I would think it would be better for the dogs to be in groups, or at least pairs - it would be awful to be alone all the time. But, even if they live in a kennel, they should be socialized with people dogs, etc. They shouldn't be left in the kennel and never get out.



should the dogs be mostly males or females or is that irrelevant and is not an indication of a good or bad kennel/breeder?

*Generally, I'd think more females than males, but it depends... If you are talking about a serious show breeder, then it would depend on which pups 'turn out' as to which pups are kept into adulthood. But if the purpose is breeding, then more females would make sense. Is there a good balance? 20 females and one male doesn't make a lot of sense. But maybe 4 females and one male or 8 females and 2 males... Also, what is their relationship to one another...

Being able to see the kennel is the most important. You can tell a LOT by how the dogs look and what the kennel looks like. Is it clean and obvious that someone is dedicated to the care of the dogs? Or, does it look like the dogs are getting the minimum care (if any).



We were actually talking about this last month at our local AKC club meeting (well, sort of). Some of the 'old timers' were talking about how there used to be a lot of large, quality kennels with 150 dogs or so - many employees, permanent hired handlers, etc. But, those large kennels don't really exist anymore. It's just too expensive. The only people with that many dogs these days are USDA commercial breeders...

I hope some of my babbling makes sense.

True and being a USDA commercial breeder does not mean a thing as far as good or bad. The requirements for being a USDA breeder are minimal.

But you have to look at more than just the facility, as I said they can have a handful of dogs to show you, they can show you one male and one female and claim to each buyer that those are the parents.

Researching the breeder is more important than researching for the perfect puppy. Because if you get a good breeder they will see that you get a good puppy.

Too many people have this perfect puppy in their mind, looks, size, coloring, personality, and they don't care who they buy it from. So look for the breeder first.

[WalnutHill]

I totally agree.

[yorkiepuppie]

thank you so much! this info. is really helpful.

i've visited a couple of show/hobby breeders this weekend. and another breeder who no longer shows, but used to. ( i know that just because a breeder show their dogs doesn't mean they are the best breeder and that just because a breeder doesn't show his/her dog, it also doesnt' mean he/she is not a good breeder)

i am trying to look for a good breeder, and honestly, i was surprised when i saw a kennel this weekend. i have never seen a kennel before, so my first thought was "is this a puppy mill!?"

but the breeder was really nice, and really willing to share info. about her vet's contact info. and the pedigree of her dogs.

so i think she is a good breeder and my first impression of the kennel is a little off because i have never seen a kennel before.

the kennel was clean, and there wasn't any bad smell. she said the dogs are let outside a couple of times a day.

she has indoor expens, some wall cages, and she also had expens out doors, and a fenced-in grass area.

so i think this is probably what a 'good kennel' would look like?

i just want to make sure. and after seeing a kennel this weekend,
it made me really interested to learn what a good kennel should look like.

thanks!

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

True and being a USDA commercial breeder does not mean a thing as far as good or bad. The requirements for being a USDA breeder are minimal.

But you have to look at more than just the facility, as I said they can have a handful of dogs to show you, they can show you one male and one female and claim to each buyer that those are the parents.

Researching the breeder is more important than researching for the perfect puppy. Because if you get a good breeder they will see that you get a good puppy.

Too many people have this perfect puppy in their mind, looks, size, coloring, personality, and they don't care who they buy it from. So look for the breeder first.

i agree with you that researching the breeder is very important. the only issue i am up against right now is the show/hobby breeders have very few dogs available, 2 of the breeders i visited this weekend, one of them have one dog available, but she might get adopted tmw. the other one has maybe one puppy available. she has a dog that she is waiting to see if she would put on more weight, because she would like to show her if she would put on more weight.

these 2 breeders only breed dogs when they need a show dog. so they don't often have puppies available.

i tried to look up info on the breeder online, but i do not have luck finding too much info on them.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by WalnutHill

This is all just my opinion. I am not an authority.


should the dogs each be in their own ex-pen or should they be placed together in a larger expen? or does it just depend on the breeders dogs and situation/preference?
*I would say that depends on the situation - do the dogs get along with each other? Etc... Certainly males seperated from females unless intending to breed with each other. I would think it would be better for the dogs to be in groups, or at least pairs - it would be awful to be alone all the time. But, even if they live in a kennel, they should be socialized with people dogs, etc. They shouldn't be left in the kennel and never get out.



should the dogs be mostly males or females or is that irrelevant and is not an indication of a good or bad kennel/breeder?

*Generally, I'd think more females than males, but it depends... If you are talking about a serious show breeder, then it would depend on which pups 'turn out' as to which pups are kept into adulthood. But if the purpose is breeding, then more females would make sense. Is there a good balance? 20 females and one male doesn't make a lot of sense. But maybe 4 females and one male or 8 females and 2 males... Also, what is their relationship to one another...

Being able to see the kennel is the most important. You can tell a LOT by how the dogs look and what the kennel looks like. Is it clean and obvious that someone is dedicated to the care of the dogs? Or, does it look like the dogs are getting the minimum care (if any).



We were actually talking about this last month at our local AKC club meeting (well, sort of). Some of the 'old timers' were talking about how there used to be a lot of large, quality kennels with 150 dogs or so - many employees, permanent hired handlers, etc. But, those large kennels don't really exist anymore. It's just too expensive. The only people with that many dogs these days are USDA commercial breeders...

I hope some of my babbling makes sense.

makes a lot of sense. i think the quality kennels are small scale kennels now. and i was trying to get an idea of what would be an acceptable size. you gave really good example/info.

thank you so much!

[TammyJM]

I do not have a kennel (and never will)....but I also only own one breeding female. We have 4 Yorkies, two of those are Huckleberry and Livi....the only ones that breed. All of my fur kids have free roam of our home. In fact, it's more like it's theirs and they just allow us to stay with them. I am sure there are good breeders out there that have kennels, but I would never want so many that they couldn't live in the house with us.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

I do not have a kennel (and never will)....but I also only own one breeding female. We have 4 Yorkies, two of those are Huckleberry and Livi....the only ones that breed. All of my fur kids have free roam of our home. In fact, it's more like it's theirs and they just allow us to stay with them. I am sure there are good breeders out there that have kennels, but I would never want so many that they couldn't live in the house with us.

LOL

Ha I tell people that too, My dogs don't live in my house, I live in their kennel.

[WinstonMom]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

I do not have a kennel (and never will)....but I also only own one breeding female. We have 4 Yorkies, two of those are Huckleberry and Livi....the only ones that breed. All of my fur kids have free roam of our home. In fact, it's more like it's theirs and they just allow us to stay with them. I am sure there are good breeders out there that have kennels, but I would never want so many that they couldn't live in the house with us.

And I have 6 dogs who allow us to live with them (and share their bed). I have 2 females that I am planning to breed and my studly boy (who will be retiring soon). The other 3, two are retired breeding females and one old boy is a rescue.
I think that the difference between a good breeder and a bad one, is in how they sell their puppies and why they are producing them. If a sale is first and foremost on their minds, then you should probably run fast. If they are breeding puppies for no other reason but to sell them, that makes them a puppy mill in my mind, whether they have one breeding dog or 50. I only breed with the next show dog in mind. There are enough homeless dogs in this world without me producing dogs for no reason other than to sell them. I have had people content to wait two years for a puppy from me and I have had others come into my home with money in hand, like it was a store and it was their right to just hand over the money and go home with a pup (they don't get one).
I also don't know how anyone can properly socialize a pup that is living in a kennel. Puppies should be exposed to the sounds and sights of living in a house, they should be comfortable riding in a car and used to the sounds and sights of the outside world. When my puppies leave my home, they are prepared for life in a home, they know how to treat people and they are aware of their place in a pack of dogs, so they know how to act with dogs of all ages.