Pregnant Bitches Diet/Eclampsia

[yorkiegold]

**DISCLAIMER**We've never had eclampsia, and more importantly, I'm not a veterinarian, canine nutrition expert or any kind of expert other than a very interested hobbyist.**END OF DISCLAIMER**

There IS an alternative to feeding puppy food to a pregnant bitch. There are alot of issues around this that I just don't want to get into, but we don't even feed puppy food to puppies. It's too rich, has added calcium, etc.

So, here's the alternative. We feed a raw food diet that includes raw meaty bones (in our case chicken wings). The problem with calcium supplementation is that it is absorbed and utilized differently in the body from a whole food source. (Reminder, refer to my first paragraph, folks, this is strictly my opinion.) Our girl eats her normal ground raw food diet and chicken wings until she whelps, then she's offered a goat's milk mixture with raw egg and honey and flax seed oil and I can't remember what else. She gets all she wants. Other than the fact that it can leave some nasty white scum on her teeth and it smells bad after a day or two on your bath robe, this has worked beautifully.

Obviously, this method is not for the faint of heart. I watched my first Yorkie eat a chicken wing with the Emergency Vet phone number and my car keys in my hands. Turns out they do just fine.

I'm not promoting this type of diet. We fed premium commercial dog food for many years. We don't require new puppy owners to feed raw. It's not for everyone. I also wouldn't switch a bitch who has had eclampsia before to this diet and expect to be problem free. But, again in my opinion, if you want THE BEST for your girl and you want to be free of whelping problems, it's worth a shot.

CJ

[feminvstr]

I know of only a few breeders that raw feed with great success, its odd to see them eating chicken with the bones, amazing I would assume the bones dont splinter when raw. The exception is they DO NOT FEED RAW to pups. Their reasoning is puppies are apt to become fussy eaters having difficulty adapting to the new adoptees way of feeding. Feeding a quality dry to pups being placed results in a smoother transition for the pup and the new parents, allowing them the option to raw feed or not. These breeders include all information on raw feeding with recipes in their puppy pack but few new families adopt this way of feeding.

Feeding raw will not ward off eclampsia. Eclampsia occurs in a mom as a result of lactation. The greater the quantity of milk produced by the bitch, the more likely eclampsia will occur. The calcium is lost in the milk faster than its absorbed, or can be mobilized from the skeletal system.

[YorkieRose]

YORKIEGOLD...I admire any one who can feed their dogs on the BARF diet. I have boarded a number of Yorks on this raw diet..my complaint is this..the smell. The food gets in the face whiskers and rots..I was washing faces of my friends 6 Yorkies twice daily..and pups 3 times. I could not stand the small of raw meat in their teeth. ..so I brushed the teeth daily also...not so bad if you only have one or two dogs.

This diet is not for the average pet owner or breeder..many have a problem feeding raw poultry.
I am a big fan of goats's milk, raw egg yolk (no whites)

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

YORKIEGOLD...I admire any one who can feed their dogs on the BARF diet. I have boarded a number of Yorks on this raw diet..my complaint is this..the smell. The food gets in the face whiskers and rots..I was washing faces of my friends 6 Yorkies twice daily..and pups 3 times. I could not stand the small of raw meat in their teeth. ..so I brushed the teeth daily also...not so bad if you only have one or two dogs.

This diet is not for the average pet owner or breeder..many have a problem feeding raw poultry.
I am a big fan of goats's milk, raw egg yolk (no whites)

LOL!! Anyone here with hair on their faces has it banded back. I'm afraid the rest of their hairstyles are dictated by what I have to cut off to keep the food off of it! Puppies and chicken wings are a natural fit. The chewing exercise is spectacular for them. But after they get through teething, they get their wings ground. They're are all dainty eaters as well. It's a trade off, but all in all I guess I'd rather deal with the slightly dirtier face than the plaque build-up with dry dog food. You can't beat the raw food diet when it comes to clean teeth and the smell of a dog with a lot of plaque and gum disease I'm afraid is quite offensive to me.

All in all, I'd say the only thing I mind about the smell is the nasty sardines my husband gives them a couple of times a week. Otherwise their breath is pretty nice. Of course, they get their teeth brushed regularly as well.

Goat's milk is the best. Our girl has done very well with it. We don't actually feed puppies goats milk. They start first with the chicken wings hacked a bit with a meat hammer. Then progress to the mix at about 7-8 weeks.

I have to tell you that our puppies just have the very best teeth. They're sparkling and full and plump. We don't have any old enough yet to know whether or not they'll stay nice and tight through adulthood, but I'm hoping. The one thing we don't do is give them knuckle bones or beef bones to chew. They will break teeth.

I think in this day and age, it's as simple to feed raw as it is canned. It's available at Petsmart now and on line as a complete prepared diet. I don't know a breeder yet who's heard about it and seen dogs who've been switched over and the improvement who doesn't at least start adding a bit of raw liver to their feeding. One of the Yorkie breeders I know freaked out when I told her we had switched. Then about a year later she had to admit that she'd bought some brand somewhere and was using it on a couple of her dogs.

But I agree that it's an issue of comfort level.

Nice yakkin' at ya.

CJ

[yorkiemom1970]

pat, i'm a big fan of raw egg yolk also. i cant imagine raw chicken wings. (with bones at that) yuk. and what about the possibilty of samonalia? sp? gosh. if you or i ate a raw chicken wing we would puke. why would we feed that to our babies? it seems pre-historic to me. and yes, i can imagine the smell. even with their hair pulled back, it would not be pleasant. a good quality dry and wet food combined with goat milk, yolks, and cottage cheese, white meat chicken (cooked) and fresh garlic has been great for my dogs for years. my friend feeds a raw diet. her dogs who are older than mine do not seem to be any better in health, coat, or anything better than alot of toy dogs i've seen. her dogs to tend to have more loose stool than mine. i have really noticed this. i say to each their own, but i do not like raw diet for dogs. the fresh garlic does tend to give a stinky breath odor, but not near as bad as i can imagine a raw meat diet would. yuk.

[YorkieRose]

Jean Clements, Tyneside Yorkies in Canada is a big fan of the BARF diet. Another friend decided to try it when she bought one of Jean's dogs...she bought a meat grinder to grind up the poultry...she would have loved to have known it can be bought at Petsmart.

I do give raw liver to my moms...and the blood is good for them also. My vet told me years ago to give it in a spoon to a wee pup. She lapped it from the spoon. It was chicken liver blood and my husband teased me that I was raiisng a chicken killer. He grew up on a farm and a chicken killer dog had to be destroyed.

[yorkiegold]

Originally Posted by yorkiemom1970

pat, i'm a big fan of raw egg yolk also. i cant imagine raw chicken wings. (with bones at that) yuk. and what about the possibilty of samonalia? sp? gosh. if you or i ate a raw chicken wing we would puke. why would we feed that to our babies? it seems pre-historic to me. and yes, i can imagine the smell. even with their hair pulled back, it would not be pleasant. a good quality dry and wet food combined with goat milk, yolks, and cottage cheese, white meat chicken (cooked) and fresh garlic has been great for my dogs for years. my friend feeds a raw diet. her dogs who are older than mine do not seem to be any better in health, coat, or anything better than alot of toy dogs i've seen. her dogs to tend to have more loose stool than mine. i have really noticed this. i say to each their own, but i do not like raw diet for dogs. the fresh garlic does tend to give a stinky breath odor, but not near as bad as i can imagine a raw meat diet would. yuk.

I have no interest in defending raw feeding, but I wanted to address a couple of the things you mention here. First of all, you can get the same bacteria in a raw egg yolk you can in chicken. There's no difference. If you've ever seen one of your dogs pick up a turd, be it canine or bird, same thing. Also, fresh garlic is now on the list of foods NOT to feed your dog along with onions, grapes, chocolate, etc. We stopped feeding it about a year ago.

And, lastly, I guess it's about as prehistoric as me when I eat bloody rare steak.

I have done research on the ingredients that go into dried dog food and how it is made. That was what finally got me to decide to try the raw diet with all whole human-grade ingredients.

If you're seeing great results with your feeding program, then that's the one to stick with.

Barney Fife

[txshopper73]

Originally Posted by yorkiegold

And, lastly, I guess it's about as prehistoric as me when I eat bloody rare steak.

YUMMY!!!!!! Make mine a Rib Eye!

[feminvstr]

Originally Posted by yorkiemom1970

pat, i'm a big fan of raw egg yolk also. i cant imagine raw chicken wings. (with bones at that) yuk. and what about the possibilty of samonalia? sp? gosh. if you or i ate a raw chicken wing we would puke. why would we feed that to our babies? it seems pre-historic to me. and yes, i can imagine the smell. even with their hair pulled back, it would not be pleasant. a good quality dry and wet food combined with goat milk, yolks, and cottage cheese, white meat chicken (cooked) and fresh garlic has been great for my dogs for years. my friend feeds a raw diet. her dogs who are older than mine do not seem to be any better in health, coat, or anything better than alot of toy dogs i've seen. her dogs to tend to have more loose stool than mine. i have really noticed this. i say to each their own, but i do not like raw diet for dogs. the fresh garlic does tend to give a stinky breath odor, but not near as bad as i can imagine a raw meat diet would. yuk.

here is the link to the break down of the BARF diet http://www.barfworld.com/html/barf_d...specific.shtml

specifically a section on garlic

GARLIC
Garlic is nature's antibiotic. There is no doubt that garlic does confer some health advantages. Garlic has been found to have effective antimicrobial properties, inhibiting the growth of both bacteria and fungi. Garlic helps stabilize blood pressure and gives a good solid boost to the immune system, keeping at bay infections of various sorts particularly upper respiratory tract infections. Much of it's success is due to various compounds of sulphur. Garlic is a health building and disease preventing herb. It is rich in potassium, zinc, vitamins A and C, and selenium. It also contains calcium, manganese, copper, vitamin B1 and some iron.

[yorkiegold]

This is from a Q&A on the Vetinfo website. I was wrong to state that fresh garlic causes probs, apparently cooked will as well. I have to say we fed our dogs garlic as part of their ground raw diet for a couple of years with no problems, but after this came out we've stopped.

Barney Fife

"Dogs develop hemolytic anemia if they eat enough onions. I don't think that it matters too much
whether the onions are cooked or not. The quantity of onions required is high enough that dogs
can generally tolerate small doses of onions without any problem and moderate amounts of
onion without clinically apparent disease, even though there may be measurable changes on lab
test results. Cats are probably a little more sensitive to onion toxicity than dogs are. I can't find
an exact quantity of onions required to cause toxicity problems in dogs, but there are several
case reports of onion toxicity and they involve whole onions or sizable portions of chopped
onions (like a cup or more). I think that feeding dogs meat that has been cooked with onions is
pretty safe but you might want to avoid giving them the broth from around something like
pot-roast if there were a lot of onions used in the cooking, just to be safe.

Large amounts of garlic will produce similar toxicity problems in both dogs and cats. I think that
the amount required is not likely to be eaten by a cat but there are probably a few dogs who
would lap up a container of spilled garlic.

Among common foods, the only other significant toxicity that I can think of are recent reports of
toxicity from eating grapes and raisins that have been reported in dogs."


Mike Richards, DVM
11/15/2001

[feminvstr]

QUOTE=yorkiegold]Large amounts of garlic will produce similar toxicity

Mike Richards, DVM
11/15/2001[/QUOTE

these are the important words "large amounts" There is a big difference between large amounts and moderation.