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Old 08-05-2009, 10:59 AM   #1
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Unhappy Not Swimmer Puppy-Luxating Patellas Bilaterally

I questioned some of you in regards to my baby girls legs and we thought it sounded like swimmer puppy, well sadly it's not. The Vet told me she has severe luxating patellas bilaterally, lack of supporting structures.

does anybody know ANYTHING about this. Will/can she have a good life? Possible Surgery? Holistic help?

My choice right now is to raise her just as I had planned before, HOWEVER, will she have a good life. Will she be in pain.

I am going to do research on this but am also looking for any GOOD advice.

Thank you,
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:03 AM   #2
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Do a search for Luxating Patella here on YT ~ lots of us have pups with LP and either live fine with it being a low Grade (1 or 2) and others for Grade 3 or 4 have surgery to stop the luxation. Both can live a normal happy life.

If this is LP in a pup, it is most likely genetic and the parents should not be breeding
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:17 AM   #3
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Do a search for Luxating Patella here on YT ~ lots of us have pups with LP and either live fine with it being a low Grade (1 or 2) and others for Grade 3 or 4 have surgery to stop the luxation. Both can live a normal happy life.

If this is LP in a pup, it is most likely genetic and the parents should not be breeding

She is only 4 weeks old. I got the mom a week before she had her babies. What I have since found out is that all other litters were fine, however this was her fifth litter and she will only be four in October, so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. My understanding is dad is fine.

I am guessing that she is stage 3 or 4. How soon can the do surgery? The vet said we would visit this at a later date. Will it be ok for her to learn to walk?
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:24 AM   #4
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She is only 4 weeks old. I got the mom a week before she had her babies. What I have since found out is that all other litters were fine, however this was her fifth litter and she will only be four in October, so I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. My understanding is dad is fine.

I am guessing that she is stage 3 or 4. How soon can the do surgery? The vet said we would visit this at a later date. Will it be ok for her to learn to walk?
Doesn't matter if the Dad or Mom do or don't have it themselves, one of them has it in their lines, and they BOTH should not be breeding if the lines are unknown, that's what responsible breeding is all about

Follow your Vets instructions, I went onto a Board Cert. Ortho Vet and that's whom I would suggest to see when it is time for surgery.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:34 AM   #5
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Doesn't matter if the Dad or Mom do or don't have it themselves, one of them has it in their lines, and they BOTH should not be breeding if the lines are unknown, that's what responsible breeding is all about

Follow your Vets instructions, I went onto a Board Cert. Ortho Vet and that's whom I would suggest to see when it is time for surgery.

Well, I have mom and she is getting fixed as soon as her babies are weaned, which is what we were going to do anyway.

I will follow his instructions and thank you.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:47 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by TLC View Post
Doesn't matter if the Dad or Mom do or don't have it themselves, one of them has it in their lines, and they BOTH should not be breeding if the lines are unknown, that's what responsible breeding is all about

Follow your Vets instructions, I went onto a Board Cert. Ortho Vet and that's whom I would suggest to see when it is time for surgery.
OP wasn't the one who bred her female..

I hope there is a solution for your puppy to allow her to live as normal a life as possible, good luck! Keep us posted on her progress.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:52 AM   #7
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I really don't know that a vet could tell about the patellas on a 4 weeks old puppy. I have heard from others that at a real young age the patellas can slip in and out. She has no muscle build up yet so it makes since that the patellas would be slipping. I honestly recommend you continue with working with her rear legs to build her muscles and then once she is walking have her reevaluated.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:55 AM   #8
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I really don't know that a vet could tell about the patellas on a 4 weeks old puppy. I have heard from others that at a real young age the patellas can slip in and out. She has no muscle build up yet so it makes since that the patellas would be slipping. I honestly recommend you continue with working with her rear legs to build her muscles and then once she is walking have her reevaluated.
that is what we are going to do. I also received a reccomedation for physical therapy, so I may try that also.

I AM NOT GIVING UP!!! THIS BABY MEANS THE WORLD TO US!!
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:55 AM   #9
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OP wasn't the one who bred her female..

I hope there is a solution for your puppy to allow her to live as normal a life as possible, good luck! Keep us posted on her progress.
Yes I know, but she has mentioned in a different thread of "maybe" breeding her again AND possibly breeding one of the pups. I just wanted to stress the importance of what responsible breeders do: know their lines and don't breed dogs of unknown lines, that's where all these genetic issues creep up and keep continuing on
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:07 PM   #10
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I'm assuming the vet didn't x-ray the pup due to its age. If he didn't, I don't see how he could make a firm diagnosis of LP. Many Yorkies have loose knees at a young age that firm up over time but your case doesn't seem to be that.

I mentioned yesterday about a pup I had that had turned in feet that we were able to correct. Things like that are likely due to crowding in-utero. In my girls case, it was slight and thankfully fully corrected.

I do have a girl that is now 3 years old that had a more severe problem. I could tell from day 1 that something wasn't right with her legs. I took her to my vet (now a former vet) at 3 days old and showed her the problem. She said to just wait until she was 6 weeks old to x-ray her since the bones were too soft to get a good picture. Not knowing any better, I took her advice and the legs were x-rayed at 6 weeks. The diagnosis was twisted femurs and at that time the vet told me the bones had set and there was nothing that could be done.

We kept Bijou and today she has a good life but is obviously handicapped. Her patellas look to be out about 45 degrees but it is the femurs being twisted and not the knees being out that makes her look that way. Her problem causes her to adjust her walk for this. She walks like she has peg legs, her back is arched and she carries most of her weight on her front legs so they are over developed. I massage her every day to keep her somewhat limber and give her doggie aspirin when she has pain. Surprisingly, she can run fairly well but she has far from a normal walk.

I wish I could go back in time and deal with this differently. I would have had her at an orthopedist instead of my regular vet and really believe we would have had a different outcome. She likely wouldn't have fully corrected but could have been made some better with proper therapy and/or binding the legs while the bones were still soft. With your girl, since she is not yet walking, there may still be a chance to help her if it is not just luxating patellas. The bones may still be pliable enough to work with since no load has been put on them yet.

I could well be wrong about your little girl but what appears to be LP could be something else entirely. Having been through what I have, I would want a firm diagnosis by a specialist. As I said earlier, Bijou had what appeared to be LP but it was not that at all.

Best of luck with your little one.
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:54 PM   #11
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I have followed the other thread... it did not sound like the swimer's for me...
One good thing is that you have a route to follow. I am sure that with your care and later on with surgery if she needs she will be just fine !

Good Luck ! Crossing my fingers for you !
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Old 08-06-2009, 07:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Woogie Man View Post
I'm assuming the vet didn't x-ray the pup due to its age. If he didn't, I don't see how he could make a firm diagnosis of LP. Many Yorkies have loose knees at a young age that firm up over time but your case doesn't seem to be that.

I mentioned yesterday about a pup I had that had turned in feet that we were able to correct. Things like that are likely due to crowding in-utero. In my girls case, it was slight and thankfully fully corrected.

I do have a girl that is now 3 years old that had a more severe problem. I could tell from day 1 that something wasn't right with her legs. I took her to my vet (now a former vet) at 3 days old and showed her the problem. She said to just wait until she was 6 weeks old to x-ray her since the bones were too soft to get a good picture. Not knowing any better, I took her advice and the legs were x-rayed at 6 weeks. The diagnosis was twisted femurs and at that time the vet told me the bones had set and there was nothing that could be done.

We kept Bijou and today she has a good life but is obviously handicapped. Her patellas look to be out about 45 degrees but it is the femurs being twisted and not the knees being out that makes her look that way. Her problem causes her to adjust her walk for this. She walks like she has peg legs, her back is arched and she carries most of her weight on her front legs so they are over developed. I massage her every day to keep her somewhat limber and give her doggie aspirin when she has pain. Surprisingly, she can run fairly well but she has far from a normal walk.

I wish I could go back in time and deal with this differently. I would have had her at an orthopedist instead of my regular vet and really believe we would have had a different outcome. She likely wouldn't have fully corrected but could have been made some better with proper therapy and/or binding the legs while the bones were still soft. With your girl, since she is not yet walking, there may still be a chance to help her if it is not just luxating patellas. The bones may still be pliable enough to work with since no load has been put on them yet.

I could well be wrong about your little girl but what appears to be LP could be something else entirely. Having been through what I have, I would want a firm diagnosis by a specialist. As I said earlier, Bijou had what appeared to be LP but it was not that at all.

Best of luck with your little one.

I have spoke with an ortopedic surgeon and will be setting up an appointment so I can get her in, within the next couple of weeks. he said that they could do surgery on her tendons as early as two months, this would be tightening them up and then we would see where we go from there.

I have also contacted, but have not heard back from the rehabilitation hospital here in Michigan. If I do not hear back by this afternoon, I will call again and again. The specialist said this could help also.

The surgeon was great to answer my questions without even seeing her. funny thing is, is that she seems to be walking better EVERY day.

Still, I do not want to put this off in hopes that things get better and in return do additional damage.

She is a great little baby and we are going to see to it that she has the best life possible.

thank you for you response.
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Old 08-06-2009, 07:55 AM   #13
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I have followed the other thread... it did not sound like the swimer's for me...
One good thing is that you have a route to follow. I am sure that with your care and later on with surgery if she needs she will be just fine !

Good Luck ! Crossing my fingers for you !

Thank you, some prayers would help also.
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