How do you feel about "casual" breeding? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

SpayToday · 04-25-2009, 06:04 PM

Call me crazy, but if your friend knew you were a dog breeding nazi and worked full time at a rescue center that is a BYB(backyard breeder) and puppy mill buster, how would you react if they casually asked you if you'd be willing to help them search for a stud dog?!

Now my friend Mary we'll call her, has a 7 1/2 month old female Yorkie. She's from a pet store in Tucson, AZ and is APRI(or however the hell you spell it, all I remember is that it is some crap, scam wannabe AKC registry). She just started her first heat about a week ago. I asked Mary when she was going to spay her dog, Princess(that is the Yorkie's real name). Mary's reply was," After she has one litter-having a litter young is good for a female dog." Not wanting to be argumentitive, I said,"Well, I hope you know what you're getting yourself into: stud fees, travel fees, Brucellois tests for both bitch and stud, OFA/CERF for both(too many tests to list!!), prenatal care for momma once she's been bred, possible C-section, possible emergency medical care for both pups and Momma, de-worming meds soon after pup's are born, LOTS of puppy chow(should be high-quality), (atleast!) first set of vaccinations for pups before they go home and the possibilty (a very high one, at that!) of losing Momma/and or pups."

All Mary did was shrug. I doubt she took any of the important responsiblities as any reputable breeder would, into serious consideration. I think she's being down-right impulsive just because her neighbor said if Mary ever bred Princess, she and all of her bingo friends would be first in line to buy one of Princess' pups! Please, what can I do to prevent Mary from breeding her not meant to be bred, pet-quality Yorkie?!

Akbritt · 04-25-2009, 06:39 PM

mmm...doesnt sound good! well honestly if she has made up her mind there is nothing you could say that will change her...the only thing you can do is tell her what she needs to know to help make the delivery of the puppies safe and safe for her princess....with hopes ...she will see breeding is not for her...and not do it anymore unless she takes it seriously. Its very hard to watch people you know make the wrong choices and you see very clearly that its not a good one...the best tool is knowledge!

Also remind her that she will not get top dollar for the puppies with out papers, reg., testing, and health guarantees...maybe if its money that is motivating her to breed she will have a change of heart

tobymom · 04-25-2009, 07:10 PM

I am with you and would feel upset with the friend--she is being totally irresponsible...You are obviously very well informed and caring and I hope in the end she listens to you.

Sugar's Mom · 04-26-2009, 03:38 AM

first, there is no such thing as a "casual" breeding. But you already know that. You seem to have covered everything with your friend but I also agree that if her mind is made up, she will not listen to you. Welcome to YT.

fannie · 04-26-2009, 05:59 AM

Aside from the information that you've already given her, it's not healthier for her to have a litter of puppies. Pregnancy and whelping come with some huge risks. Is she prepared to lose her dog in the process?

Also, each heat cycle she goes through puts her at an increased risk for uterine and mammary cancers. The longer she goes without being spayed, the more likely her risk of deadly uterine infections.

Its much safer and healthier for her to be SPAYED, before she has a litter.

Then, there's the whole other aspect of her dog even being the quality to breed. Chances are, she has no idea what the background is. Anybody that has a dog for breeding should be doing extensive research into their background to know what that particular dog is capable of reproducing. The good, the bad (and the ugly!

)

BamaFan121s · 04-27-2009, 04:24 AM

Sounds to me like your friend Mary is very uninformed regarding breeding. Having a litter young is NOT "good for the dog." Seems like YOU know better, but she doesn't. Maybe she would benefit from your knowledge and since you are friends would respect your opinion on the subject.

yorkiepuppie · 04-30-2009, 08:57 AM

maybe finding out the reason why your friend wants to breed her dog will help you persuade her to not do it. if it's for the dog's health. like she says, then try showing her and explaining to her that it's not healthier for the dog. and if it's for something else, like money, then maybe tell her that the costs involved...

sometimes it's hard to convince people not to do something they want to do...my neighbor breeds her tiny dogs, and she was surprised that i spayed my 3lb dog. she thinks it's nice to breed them and be able to sell them. (she is a BYB) when i tried to tell her that our dogs are too small to breed, she told me that she also owns the mom(~3 lb. also) who gave birth to the tiny dog that she is also going to breed, she thinks everything will be fine and thinks it's a shame that i spayed my dog...

it's even harder to tell someone they shouldn't do it if they had a successful experience with breeding their dogs once...i feel bad for her dogs. i can't imagine a 3 lb dog giving birth, i don't understand how her other 3lb dog was able to give birth with no problems, maybe she is just really lucky?

for her poor dogs sake, i hope she continues to be very lucky

SpayToday · 06-29-2009, 06:35 AM

Sorry haven't posted in a while....well here is an update on "Mary" and Princess....

Mary found a not even two pound stud who doesn't look purebred as his ears don't stand up & his tail curls over in an almost plume over his back...the dog was advertised in the newspaper as"experienced yorkie terror boy, breads 'em every time! -$450 cash only. Call 555-555-5555." I was/am SO disgusted!

They mated on the 8 or 9 day of Princess's heat, tying three times. She had 5 pups on June 22nd, Mary panicked & called me at 3:30 AM to help her, because she though her Princess was dying, when she was actually giving birth! Two pups were stillborn, another died a few minutes after birth, he was only 1.9 ounces! The other two, a male & female are doing ok, but Princess isn't feeding them enough, so I've been helping Mary bottle-feed them every 2 hours.

Mary wants to breed poor Princess again in December...ugh! Some people just NEVER learn!!!

BamaFan121s · 06-29-2009, 06:37 AM

Like you, I would be absolutely appalled at what "Mary" is doing. That's one of those "friends" I would have to walk away from...either that or my mouth would get me in trouble quickly. Sadly, I suspect that when Princess is prego and her life is on the line, it's going to be you that "Mary" turns to for help!

littlewhip · 06-29-2009, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Like you, I would be absolutely appalled at what "Mary" is doing. That's one of those "friends" I would have to walk away from...either that or my mouth would get me in trouble quickly. Sadly, I suspect that when Princess is prego and her life is on the line, it's going to be you that "Mary" turns to for help!

I agree, although it would be hard to walk away from a friend
i could not sit back or help without my opinion and im sure it would end our friendship

It dont sound like the first breeding went very well so why
would she continue

Im sorry but i find that very sad.

MindieRose · 06-29-2009, 07:10 AM

I guess I think differently. I wouldn't want a fairweather friend that only cares to be around me if I listen to and do what she says. Yes I think its crazy that she would want to breed her dog again after this ordeal, but a friend is a friend. If I had a friend that had a yorkie or any other dog and wanted to breed it, was prepared to take care of any expenses, and had homes for the pups before they were even here, then I would support her.
My Grandma plays bingo twice a week, and she takes care of her dogs as if they were her own children, as do all of her bingo friends. I find that the older generation like that tend to. These people don't want show dogs or to pay the high price of one.

BamaFan121s · 06-29-2009, 08:17 AM

I just couldn't support anyone breeding a dog knowing that they didn't have a clue what they were doing and that they were putting the dog at risk. Sorry, but friend or no friend, I couldn't support that.
As far as being a "fairweather" friend...it's not so black and white or only wanting to be around someone when they do as you say. (None of us have friends that are going to agree with us 100% of the time.) The decision to distance yourself from a friend would depend on if the situation is something you feel like you can be around and deal with. For me, sorry, but I don't think I would be able to stomach being around it--being willing to pay the expenses and place the pups wouldn't mean JACK to me if the dog's best interests weren't coming first to begin with. Sorry, but for me, friend or no friend I could never suppor the type of breeding that has been described here, but that's just me.

I suppose it's something that everyone has to decide for themselves. I just didn't think that categorizing it as "only being friends with someone as long as they do what you say" was a fair description.

MindieRose · 06-29-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I just couldn't support anyone breeding a dog knowing that they didn't have a clue what they were doing and that they were putting the dog at risk. Sorry, but friend or no friend, I couldn't support that.
As far as being a "fairweather" friend...it's not so black and white or only wanting to be around someone when they do as you say. (None of us have friends that are going to agree with us 100% of the time.) The decision to distance yourself from a friend would depend on if the situation is something you feel like you can be around and deal with. For me, sorry, but I don't think I would be able to stomach being around it--being willing to pay the expenses and place the pups wouldn't mean JACK to me if the dog's best interests weren't coming first to begin with. Sorry, but for me, friend or no friend I could never suppor the type of breeding that has been described here, but that's just me.

I suppose it's something that everyone has to decide for themselves. I just didn't think that categorizing it as "only being friends with someone as long as they do what you say" was a fair description.

Perhaps it was a little harsh, but sometimes I think it's easy for outsiders to say thing like "I just couldn't be friends with someone like that" or something similar, when they forget that with a friendship, most times a relationship is established and it just isn't that easy. I do believe that there are a whole lot of reasons that I would not be friends with someone, but I try to find these things out about a person before I really get into a friendship with them. Sometimes though, I understand that unless you aren't faced with a situation, you may not know this about a friend until it comes up.
Bama I have to say that I like how you debate something intelligently. I don't agree with you sometimes, but I do respect you

BamaFan121s · 06-29-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MindieRose

Bama I have to say that I like how you debate something intelligently. I don't agree with you sometimes, but I do respect you

Thanks...I could say that same to you as well. People can't agree on everything all the time. I didn't think what you said was harsh--in any event, it was your honest opinion on the subject.

However, in reading it, I realized that my prior statement I saw that it came across as being said very lightly and thought I would further explain why I felt that way. Nothing more.

Responsible pet ownership is something I feel very passionately against, as many of us hear do and what has been described by the OP, IMO is NOT responsible ownership. I'm personally not sure that I could maintain a relationship with someone if that meant being witness to that. There are lots of differences of opinions with friends and can and do overlook, however, not sure if I could sit back and quietly bite my tongue about that sort of thing.

(And now I seem to have said the same thing 3 different ways...maybe this time I'll be happy with the way it came out...lol!)

Peters · 06-29-2009, 04:52 PM

she shouldnt breed an apri yorkie there are just way to many unwanted animals espically now with the economy just take her to local shelters pounds and even vet offices we have three now at the vet office i work at that have been left nobody wnats that need homes not yorkies just dogs and the humane society and pound are full! poor dogs!

04-25-2009, 06:04 PM	#1
SpayToday Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tucson,AZ, USA Posts: 25	How do you feel about "casual" breeding? Call me crazy, but if your friend knew you were a dog breeding nazi and worked full time at a rescue center that is a BYB(backyard breeder) and puppy mill buster, how would you react if they casually asked you if you'd be willing to help them search for a stud dog?! Now my friend Mary we'll call her, has a 7 1/2 month old female Yorkie. She's from a pet store in Tucson, AZ and is APRI(or however the hell you spell it, all I remember is that it is some crap, scam wannabe AKC registry). She just started her first heat about a week ago. I asked Mary when she was going to spay her dog, Princess(that is the Yorkie's real name). Mary's reply was," After she has one litter-having a litter young is good for a female dog." Not wanting to be argumentitive, I said,"Well, I hope you know what you're getting yourself into: stud fees, travel fees, Brucellois tests for both bitch and stud, OFA/CERF for both(too many tests to list!!), prenatal care for momma once she's been bred, possible C-section, possible emergency medical care for both pups and Momma, de-worming meds soon after pup's are born, LOTS of puppy chow(should be high-quality), (atleast!) first set of vaccinations for pups before they go home and the possibilty (a very high one, at that!) of losing Momma/and or pups." All Mary did was shrug. I doubt she took any of the important responsiblities as any reputable breeder would, into serious consideration. I think she's being down-right impulsive just because her neighbor said if Mary ever bred Princess, she and all of her bingo friends would be first in line to buy one of Princess' pups! Please, what can I do to prevent Mary from breeding her not meant to be bred, pet-quality Yorkie?! __________________ ~Chrissie~ SPAY TODAY!!!!!!!!

04-25-2009, 06:39 PM	#2
Akbritt Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Connelly Springs NC Posts: 557	mmm...doesnt sound good! well honestly if she has made up her mind there is nothing you could say that will change her...the only thing you can do is tell her what she needs to know to help make the delivery of the puppies safe and safe for her princess....with hopes ...she will see breeding is not for her...and not do it anymore unless she takes it seriously. Its very hard to watch people you know make the wrong choices and you see very clearly that its not a good one...the best tool is knowledge! Also remind her that she will not get top dollar for the puppies with out papers, reg., testing, and health guarantees...maybe if its money that is motivating her to breed she will have a change of heart Last edited by Akbritt; 04-25-2009 at 06:40 PM. Reason: typos

04-25-2009, 07:10 PM	#3
tobymom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 49	Some People! I am with you and would feel upset with the friend--she is being totally irresponsible...You are obviously very well informed and caring and I hope in the end she listens to you.

04-26-2009, 05:59 AM	#5
fannie Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,693	Aside from the information that you've already given her, it's not healthier for her to have a litter of puppies. Pregnancy and whelping come with some huge risks. Is she prepared to lose her dog in the process? Also, each heat cycle she goes through puts her at an increased risk for uterine and mammary cancers. The longer she goes without being spayed, the more likely her risk of deadly uterine infections. Its much safer and healthier for her to be SPAYED, before she has a litter. Then, there's the whole other aspect of her dog even being the quality to breed. Chances are, she has no idea what the background is. Anybody that has a dog for breeding should be doing extensive research into their background to know what that particular dog is capable of reproducing. The good, the bad (and the ugly! ) __________________ Steph, Mama to 6 skin babies and beautiful yorkies!

04-30-2009, 08:57 AM	#7
yorkiepuppie Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Jose, CA, USA Posts: 2,883	maybe finding out the reason why your friend wants to breed her dog will help you persuade her to not do it. if it's for the dog's health. like she says, then try showing her and explaining to her that it's not healthier for the dog. and if it's for something else, like money, then maybe tell her that the costs involved... sometimes it's hard to convince people not to do something they want to do...my neighbor breeds her tiny dogs, and she was surprised that i spayed my 3lb dog. she thinks it's nice to breed them and be able to sell them. (she is a BYB) when i tried to tell her that our dogs are too small to breed, she told me that she also owns the mom(~3 lb. also) who gave birth to the tiny dog that she is also going to breed, she thinks everything will be fine and thinks it's a shame that i spayed my dog... it's even harder to tell someone they shouldn't do it if they had a successful experience with breeding their dogs once...i feel bad for her dogs. i can't imagine a 3 lb dog giving birth, i don't understand how her other 3lb dog was able to give birth with no problems, maybe she is just really lucky? for her poor dogs sake, i hope she continues to be very lucky __________________ www.yenspiration.com i love milu

04-26-2009, 03:38 AM	#4
Sugar's Mom BANNED! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 9,248	first, there is no such thing as a "casual" breeding. But you already know that. You seem to have covered everything with your friend but I also agree that if her mind is made up, she will not listen to you. Welcome to YT.

04-27-2009, 04:24 AM	#6
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	Sounds to me like your friend Mary is very uninformed regarding breeding. Having a litter young is NOT "good for the dog." Seems like YOU know better, but she doesn't. Maybe she would benefit from your knowledge and since you are friends would respect your opinion on the subject.

06-29-2009, 06:35 AM	#8
SpayToday Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tucson,AZ, USA Posts: 25	Update Sorry haven't posted in a while....well here is an update on "Mary" and Princess.... Mary found a not even two pound stud who doesn't look purebred as his ears don't stand up & his tail curls over in an almost plume over his back...the dog was advertised in the newspaper as"experienced yorkie terror boy, breads 'em every time! -$450 cash only. Call 555-555-5555." I was/am SO disgusted! They mated on the 8 or 9 day of Princess's heat, tying three times. She had 5 pups on June 22nd, Mary panicked & called me at 3:30 AM to help her, because she though her Princess was dying, when she was actually giving birth! Two pups were stillborn, another died a few minutes after birth, he was only 1.9 ounces! The other two, a male & female are doing ok, but Princess isn't feeding them enough, so I've been helping Mary bottle-feed them every 2 hours. Mary wants to breed poor Princess again in December...ugh! Some people just NEVER learn!!! __________________ ~Chrissie~ SPAY TODAY!!!!!!!!

06-29-2009, 06:37 AM	#9
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	Like you, I would be absolutely appalled at what "Mary" is doing. That's one of those "friends" I would have to walk away from...either that or my mouth would get me in trouble quickly. Sadly, I suspect that when Princess is prego and her life is on the line, it's going to be you that "Mary" turns to for help!

06-29-2009, 07:10 AM	#11
MindieRose Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,280	I guess I think differently. I wouldn't want a fairweather friend that only cares to be around me if I listen to and do what she says. Yes I think its crazy that she would want to breed her dog again after this ordeal, but a friend is a friend. If I had a friend that had a yorkie or any other dog and wanted to breed it, was prepared to take care of any expenses, and had homes for the pups before they were even here, then I would support her. My Grandma plays bingo twice a week, and she takes care of her dogs as if they were her own children, as do all of her bingo friends. I find that the older generation like that tend to. These people don't want show dogs or to pay the high price of one. __________________ Proud Mommy of Gavin, Ethan, Morgan, Nia, Olivia, and Kiana and baby #7! Also Mommy to furkids: Cleo ,Lola, Lilly Appletini, and Diesel. and Sunny, Ethan's Golden therapy dog in training.

06-29-2009, 08:17 AM	#12
BamaFan121s Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 11,432	I just couldn't support anyone breeding a dog knowing that they didn't have a clue what they were doing and that they were putting the dog at risk. Sorry, but friend or no friend, I couldn't support that. As far as being a "fairweather" friend...it's not so black and white or only wanting to be around someone when they do as you say. (None of us have friends that are going to agree with us 100% of the time.) The decision to distance yourself from a friend would depend on if the situation is something you feel like you can be around and deal with. For me, sorry, but I don't think I would be able to stomach being around it--being willing to pay the expenses and place the pups wouldn't mean JACK to me if the dog's best interests weren't coming first to begin with. Sorry, but for me, friend or no friend I could never suppor the type of breeding that has been described here, but that's just me. I suppose it's something that everyone has to decide for themselves. I just didn't think that categorizing it as "only being friends with someone as long as they do what you say" was a fair description. Last edited by BamaFan121s; 06-29-2009 at 08:19 AM.

06-29-2009, 04:52 PM	#15
Peters YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,225	she shouldnt breed an apri yorkie there are just way to many unwanted animals espically now with the economy just take her to local shelters pounds and even vet offices we have three now at the vet office i work at that have been left nobody wnats that need homes not yorkies just dogs and the humane society and pound are full! poor dogs! __________________ A pet's love is true right from the start, through good times and bad, like sharing one heart.