What would you do?? - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Gingis mom · 09-08-2005, 05:57 AM

One of my pups that I took a deposit on has had a change, she dropped a few ounces in a few days, her attitude and demeanor has changed and just in general I feel something may be up with her. Not something that would show on a vet visit at this point but something that I feel I should watch.

I had originally told the buyers that the pups would go to their new homes at twelve weeks, but because the mother was having nothing to do with them and a few were clearly healthy and eating well on their own I was allowing them to go to homes earlier IF I felt they were ready. Well I emailed the people who had a depost on this pup and stated my concerns and that I was not allowing this particular pup to go to her home just yet, at nine weeks. The middle of last week though this was not showing and I had told the woman she couldhave her this weekend. At any rate I offered them the options of waiting, getting another pup or getting their money back. The husband of the couple called me and at first things were fine, the woman who had seen this pup for a total of possibly 30 minutes, was extremely upset saying it had to be this pup(bear in mind this is a pet quality pup that upon seeing they asked me how I would know which one it was when the time came for them to get it). They started question and analyzing the reasons, my current and previous words, why I hadn't taken her to a doc yet, etc, etc. They wanted not only to pick her up at nine weeks but also an extended health guarantee. The husband and I talked three times yesterday afternoon, though he and I got along well and seemed to understand each other they are still pushing to get the pup early. They have made me feel as though I am taking care of their pup and need to answer to them vs the facts that it is my pup they have a deposit on and I have a responsibility to that pup. After sleeping on this all night(when I was able to sleep) I am thinking I should just give their money back and cancel the sale thereby negating any obligation on either part. Also I will not be interrogated over my actions and the pups health when I have clearly stated I feel something needs watching. I would appreciate opinions on this. Thanks and sorry this is so long.

Olivier · 09-08-2005, 06:06 AM

Once I have had the same situation as you do now . The puppy was a little sick and I felt she wasn't ready to leave . The woman wanted to have her and was very pushy . I decided to give her money back and told her to never come back for a pup .

eensor · 09-08-2005, 06:08 AM

I would just explain that she needs a little more time with her mother and you. If they are the right people for her, they will understand.

sylvan · 09-08-2005, 06:12 AM

This is one of the reasons I don't take deposits on pups. 10 weeks is also the bare minimum any would leave here and that would only be in a special circumstance. 12 weeks is best, but if I feel a pup needs more time than that, they get more time. There is obviously a lack of understanding on their part as to where your interest lies. The well being of the pup is your first priority. Their wishes are secondary. It doesn't make any sense that they would want to take a pup that you are uncertain about. What is their urgency?
I would return the deposit and tell them they can either wait until you feel the pup is ready to go or get one from somewhere else. I would be hesitant to place the pup with anyone so emotionally unstable that they would get EXTREMELY upset over a possible delay in getting a pup they haven't spent much time with. Your reasons for the delay are sound.

Gingis mom · 09-08-2005, 06:25 AM

Thank you for your replies! As I said before I was of the opinion that I should negate this sale. Sylvan this has truly helped me learn not to take deposits before the pups are ready to go. This is my first experience and I have definately learning quite a bit from every aspect of it. I welcome other opinions and experiences on this.

sylvan · 09-08-2005, 06:44 AM

Just a bit more food for thought... The reason I keep pups to 12 weeks is not because the mom is still interested in them or they are not eating on their own...it is because studies have shown that pups allowed the extra time to interact with their littermates are much better from a behavior standpoint in future. The extra socialization time negates many anxiety/aggression/interaction problems that show up in pups removed earlier.

People have varying opinions on the deposit question, but I feel strongly that it's just not a great idea. If something changes between the time the deposit is placed, I do not want a pup to go with anyone who may be taking it, just to avoid losing a deposit. My word is enough to hold a pup for you once decided. Also, I allow a one week return with full refund for any reason, just in case the idea of the pup was different from the reality or whatever circumstance comes along. Maybe the other pets in the house just can't adjust or whatever?? It is certainly no big deal to find a better home compared to forcing a pup to be in a situation where it is not wanted.

Snow Yorkies · 09-08-2005, 08:32 AM

I think it is wonderful of you to be up front with the perspective buyers on your feelings on this puppy. Don't let them bully you into something you don't feel is right for your little one!!!!! I personally would reconsider the sale and return the deposit, hold the pup until you feel comfortable about the pup leaving and not until.... Your first concern should be with the puppy, not the perspective owners. I have ran into strong personalities before as well, and you are not beholding to anyone, but that puppy..... I think it is best to hold a pup to twelve weeks of age too.

lily's mom · 09-08-2005, 08:57 AM

I am very impressed with you all! I would love to have any of your pups. sylvan - I think the one week return policy is awesome!!!!!

Gingis mom-It is your pup, I think you should do what you feel is in the best interest of the pup. Don't let them bully you.

SoCalyorkiLvr · 09-08-2005, 09:00 AM

Gingis' Mom~ From a legal perspective your rights and responsibilities will depend on the terms of the deposit agreement. Is the agreement regarding the deposit in writing?

If the buyers understood that once they put the deposit down there is a contract for purchase then the puppy IS theirs at that poiht and you are caring for it for them. If the deposit was simply a "prerequisite to the contract" and you made sure they knew that you, as the breeder, still owned the pup and that they may not get it, then you can certainly cancel the agreement at this point.

Deposits are not a bad hing in and of themselves but the "terms" of the deposit and the contract prerquisites need to be spellled out and agreed to so there are no misunderstandings like there seem to be in this instance.

I know that I can fall in love with a puppy instantly and then if I dream about it for several weeks, I fall more deeply in love so I don't think the fact that the buyers only spent 30 minues means they aren't attached to the pup. I am sure they are scared for their "baby" and they want to do what is best.

I hope the puppy gets better nad everything works out for everyone in this matter. Feel free to PM me if you have Qs about my advice here.

GurleyGirl · 09-08-2005, 09:23 AM

I think you should hold on to ALL puppies until you feel they are ready for their new homes. Maybe make this known at the time someone makes a deposit.... "the earliest they will get the puppy is whatever number of weeks or until such time you feel they are ready for their new homes". I am sure most people would understand this.

Who would really want a puppy when it is not eating well...??? There is enough stress in the new home with the crying puppy (missing its mates).

Good luck.

chachi · 09-08-2005, 09:29 AM

I would return the deposit and keep the pup till you know it healthy. The nerve of some people bullying. When I was a buyer I felt very beholden to the breeder what she said goes.

Latuya · 09-08-2005, 09:58 AM

I feel that you have every right to keep the pup till you feel it's ready to go. The normal age before leaving is 12 weeks. I got Gus at 10 weeks but he had been eatting on his own and was happy and healthy. I don't think you should extend the health guarantee and hand over the pup till you know the pup is completely healthy. I'm sure if they want a happy healthy pup then they would be more understanding.

I do know how it is to fall in love with a pup and not being able to get it. The first yorkie I looked at was my dream baby. Red, baby faced, healthy, and SO darn cute. The lady was just asking WAY too much for her. There was no way I could aford her. But even if I was able to aford her I wouldnt want to bring her home if the breeder thought there might be a problem. If they can't understand that,,,, then by all means,,, give the deposit back. Good luck to you!

Gingis mom · 09-08-2005, 10:19 AM

Well after waking up very early and posting here, I attempted to go back to sleep. The woman called me early and woke me and wanted to talk. I tried to talk and found myself reiterating what I had said to her husband. Again she trying to tell me they didn't understand why the pup was not taken to the vet. Finally I told her I thought the best thing was for me to return their money. Though not angry she quieted down a bit for a moment but started in again. After a few more minutes of this I told her again that I thought it would be best for all concerned if I just give her her money back. At that point she agreed and all was said and done. Thank you all so much for your help in this.

Gingis mom · 09-08-2005, 10:34 AM

SoCalYorkieLvr... I posted the previous posting before noticing your post. I had a deposit agreement. The original agreement(not in writing) was that the pups would go to their new homes at twelve weeks of age. I tried to push this up for my purchaser but found it not possible. She had a fit and there was no written contract as to the fact that it was their pup. This has been a great lesson for me and if I were to take a deposit again the terms would certainly be spelled out.

Lady of Yorkies · 09-08-2005, 02:24 PM

I know this is all said and done now, but I wanted to say that I think one of the reasons they wanted to go ahead and get the puppy right now is because they thought that the puppy should go to the vet NOW. But just incase something was really wrong (after they insisted on getting the puppy) they wanted an extended health guarantee. I don't think so! If they were going to insist against the better judgement of the breeder, they can just take their chances!

No one knows the attitudes and behaviour of that puppy better than the person raising it. It's just like raising your kids. It's no use to yank them up to go to the doctor only to have the doctor tell you they can't find anything wrong. Yet! We went thru a lot of ear infections this way. I knew but it was too early to get them to do anything. You did right, you did good. WTG, Sylvia.

09-08-2005, 05:57 AM	#1
Gingis mom Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 75	What would you do?? One of my pups that I took a deposit on has had a change, she dropped a few ounces in a few days, her attitude and demeanor has changed and just in general I feel something may be up with her. Not something that would show on a vet visit at this point but something that I feel I should watch. I had originally told the buyers that the pups would go to their new homes at twelve weeks, but because the mother was having nothing to do with them and a few were clearly healthy and eating well on their own I was allowing them to go to homes earlier IF I felt they were ready. Well I emailed the people who had a depost on this pup and stated my concerns and that I was not allowing this particular pup to go to her home just yet, at nine weeks. The middle of last week though this was not showing and I had told the woman she couldhave her this weekend. At any rate I offered them the options of waiting, getting another pup or getting their money back. The husband of the couple called me and at first things were fine, the woman who had seen this pup for a total of possibly 30 minutes, was extremely upset saying it had to be this pup(bear in mind this is a pet quality pup that upon seeing they asked me how I would know which one it was when the time came for them to get it). They started question and analyzing the reasons, my current and previous words, why I hadn't taken her to a doc yet, etc, etc. They wanted not only to pick her up at nine weeks but also an extended health guarantee. The husband and I talked three times yesterday afternoon, though he and I got along well and seemed to understand each other they are still pushing to get the pup early. They have made me feel as though I am taking care of their pup and need to answer to them vs the facts that it is my pup they have a deposit on and I have a responsibility to that pup. After sleeping on this all night(when I was able to sleep) I am thinking I should just give their money back and cancel the sale thereby negating any obligation on either part. Also I will not be interrogated over my actions and the pups health when I have clearly stated I feel something needs watching. I would appreciate opinions on this. Thanks and sorry this is so long.

09-08-2005, 06:08 AM	#3
eensor YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Effingham, Illinois Posts: 2,534	I would just explain that she needs a little more time with her mother and you. If they are the right people for her, they will understand. __________________ I'd rather be in Mexico!

09-08-2005, 08:32 AM	#7
Snow Yorkies Biewer Passionate Donating Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southern AL Posts: 1,668	I think it is wonderful of you to be up front with the perspective buyers on your feelings on this puppy. Don't let them bully you into something you don't feel is right for your little one!!!!! I personally would reconsider the sale and return the deposit, hold the pup until you feel comfortable about the pup leaving and not until.... Your first concern should be with the puppy, not the perspective owners. I have ran into strong personalities before as well, and you are not beholding to anyone, but that puppy..... I think it is best to hold a pup to twelve weeks of age too. __________________ Dare to Dream Biewers Charter Member of BYTNC

09-08-2005, 08:57 AM	#8
lily's mom Lily Loves Maximus Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 2,633	I am very impressed with you all! I would love to have any of your pups. sylvan - I think the one week return policy is awesome!!!!! Gingis mom-It is your pup, I think you should do what you feel is in the best interest of the pup. Don't let them bully you. __________________ Lily and Dawn

09-08-2005, 09:23 AM	#10
GurleyGirl YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Scott City, Missouri Posts: 1,410	I think you should hold on to ALL puppies until you feel they are ready for their new homes. Maybe make this known at the time someone makes a deposit.... "the earliest they will get the puppy is whatever number of weeks or until such time you feel they are ready for their new homes". I am sure most people would understand this. Who would really want a puppy when it is not eating well...??? There is enough stress in the new home with the crying puppy (missing its mates). Good luck. __________________ Joanne and Mickey, Rocky, Wilma, Pebbles, Winnie, Jasmine, Sammie, Peanut, Emma, Rambo

09-08-2005, 06:06 AM	#2
Olivier Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 2,883	Once I have had the same situation as you do now . The puppy was a little sick and I felt she wasn't ready to leave . The woman wanted to have her and was very pushy . I decided to give her money back and told her to never come back for a pup .

09-08-2005, 06:12 AM	#4
sylvan YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Eastern PA Posts: 2,484	This is one of the reasons I don't take deposits on pups. 10 weeks is also the bare minimum any would leave here and that would only be in a special circumstance. 12 weeks is best, but if I feel a pup needs more time than that, they get more time. There is obviously a lack of understanding on their part as to where your interest lies. The well being of the pup is your first priority. Their wishes are secondary. It doesn't make any sense that they would want to take a pup that you are uncertain about. What is their urgency? I would return the deposit and tell them they can either wait until you feel the pup is ready to go or get one from somewhere else. I would be hesitant to place the pup with anyone so emotionally unstable that they would get EXTREMELY upset over a possible delay in getting a pup they haven't spent much time with. Your reasons for the delay are sound.

09-08-2005, 06:25 AM	#5
Gingis mom Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 75	Thank you for your replies! As I said before I was of the opinion that I should negate this sale. Sylvan this has truly helped me learn not to take deposits before the pups are ready to go. This is my first experience and I have definately learning quite a bit from every aspect of it. I welcome other opinions and experiences on this.

09-08-2005, 06:44 AM	#6
sylvan YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Eastern PA Posts: 2,484	Just a bit more food for thought... The reason I keep pups to 12 weeks is not because the mom is still interested in them or they are not eating on their own...it is because studies have shown that pups allowed the extra time to interact with their littermates are much better from a behavior standpoint in future. The extra socialization time negates many anxiety/aggression/interaction problems that show up in pups removed earlier. People have varying opinions on the deposit question, but I feel strongly that it's just not a great idea. If something changes between the time the deposit is placed, I do not want a pup to go with anyone who may be taking it, just to avoid losing a deposit. My word is enough to hold a pup for you once decided. Also, I allow a one week return with full refund for any reason, just in case the idea of the pup was different from the reality or whatever circumstance comes along. Maybe the other pets in the house just can't adjust or whatever?? It is certainly no big deal to find a better home compared to forcing a pup to be in a situation where it is not wanted.

09-08-2005, 09:00 AM	#9
SoCalyorkiLvr BANNED! Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,246	Gingis' Mom~ From a legal perspective your rights and responsibilities will depend on the terms of the deposit agreement. Is the agreement regarding the deposit in writing? If the buyers understood that once they put the deposit down there is a contract for purchase then the puppy IS theirs at that poiht and you are caring for it for them. If the deposit was simply a "prerequisite to the contract" and you made sure they knew that you, as the breeder, still owned the pup and that they may not get it, then you can certainly cancel the agreement at this point. Deposits are not a bad hing in and of themselves but the "terms" of the deposit and the contract prerquisites need to be spellled out and agreed to so there are no misunderstandings like there seem to be in this instance. I know that I can fall in love with a puppy instantly and then if I dream about it for several weeks, I fall more deeply in love so I don't think the fact that the buyers only spent 30 minues means they aren't attached to the pup. I am sure they are scared for their "baby" and they want to do what is best. I hope the puppy gets better nad everything works out for everyone in this matter. Feel free to PM me if you have Qs about my advice here.

09-08-2005, 09:29 AM	#11
chachi I Love My Yorkies Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 23,116	I would return the deposit and keep the pup till you know it healthy. The nerve of some people bullying. When I was a buyer I felt very beholden to the breeder what she said goes. __________________ Chachi's & Jewels Mom Jewels http://www.dogster.com/?132431 Chachi http://www.dogster.com/?132427

09-08-2005, 09:58 AM	#12
Latuya YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Bernardino Ca Posts: 2,846	I feel that you have every right to keep the pup till you feel it's ready to go. The normal age before leaving is 12 weeks. I got Gus at 10 weeks but he had been eatting on his own and was happy and healthy. I don't think you should extend the health guarantee and hand over the pup till you know the pup is completely healthy. I'm sure if they want a happy healthy pup then they would be more understanding. I do know how it is to fall in love with a pup and not being able to get it. The first yorkie I looked at was my dream baby. Red, baby faced, healthy, and SO darn cute. The lady was just asking WAY too much for her. There was no way I could aford her. But even if I was able to aford her I wouldnt want to bring her home if the breeder thought there might be a problem. If they can't understand that,,,, then by all means,,, give the deposit back. Good luck to you! __________________ Monica, proud momma of Gus Gus's Dogster page

09-08-2005, 10:19 AM	#13
Gingis mom Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 75	Well after waking up very early and posting here, I attempted to go back to sleep. The woman called me early and woke me and wanted to talk. I tried to talk and found myself reiterating what I had said to her husband. Again she trying to tell me they didn't understand why the pup was not taken to the vet. Finally I told her I thought the best thing was for me to return their money. Though not angry she quieted down a bit for a moment but started in again. After a few more minutes of this I told her again that I thought it would be best for all concerned if I just give her her money back. At that point she agreed and all was said and done. Thank you all so much for your help in this.

09-08-2005, 10:34 AM	#14
Gingis mom Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 75	SoCalYorkieLvr... I posted the previous posting before noticing your post. I had a deposit agreement. The original agreement(not in writing) was that the pups would go to their new homes at twelve weeks of age. I tried to push this up for my purchaser but found it not possible. She had a fit and there was no written contract as to the fact that it was their pup. This has been a great lesson for me and if I were to take a deposit again the terms would certainly be spelled out.

09-08-2005, 02:24 PM	#15
Lady of Yorkies YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,364	I know this is all said and done now, but I wanted to say that I think one of the reasons they wanted to go ahead and get the puppy right now is because they thought that the puppy should go to the vet NOW. But just incase something was really wrong (after they insisted on getting the puppy) they wanted an extended health guarantee. I don't think so! If they were going to insist against the better judgement of the breeder, they can just take their chances! No one knows the attitudes and behaviour of that puppy better than the person raising it. It's just like raising your kids. It's no use to yank them up to go to the doctor only to have the doctor tell you they can't find anything wrong. Yet! We went thru a lot of ear infections this way. I knew but it was too early to get them to do anything. You did right, you did good. WTG, Sylvia.