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02-05-2009, 05:59 PM | #1 |
YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Eastern Idaho USA
Posts: 1
| Pick of the litter guarantee! Stud service How can you guarantee against not getting lied to if you except pick of the litter instead of fee for stud service. "She's not pregnant", "The puppies didn't make it". Or just not getting your calls returned around expected delivery date. I'am brand new today to this forum. Hello Yorkie lovers! |
Welcome Guest! | |
02-05-2009, 06:56 PM | #2 |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon
Posts: 77
| hi, i let someone use my stud dog once for pick of the litter and they promised to contact me when she had them. i never heard back from her at all. when finally i tracked her down (when the pups should have been around 8 weeks) she said the the dog never had puppies. but, she just happened to be selling an 8 week old yorkie that "belong to her friend". i asked to come visit the mother to see if she had been nursing and the lady refused to let me see her saying her work schedule was too busy. so people will always take advantage. very sad. if i were to do it again i would insist that i go with the dogs owner to the vet around when she would be 8 weeks pregnant and have the x-rays or an ultra-sound done. have them sign that they will do this before letting them use the stud dog. that is probably the only way i would do that deal again.... |
02-05-2009, 07:07 PM | #3 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Casey, IL
Posts: 1,175
| Have them give you the stud fee as a retainer, then when you get the puppy, return the money. This can be done with a contract also.
__________________ Heather, mommy to Drake (7 yr old son), Triss (yorkie), spike (dachshund), ash and misty (my cats), and a baby on the way due Oct 1st! |
02-05-2009, 07:09 PM | #4 |
Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Florida/Canada
Posts: 5,514
| I simply would not do this.. NOT that is unless I had a written agreement and I also knew this person well...I would never use my stud for people to even think about doing this kind of thing.. I hope others see this thread and realize people will do anything to get a yorkie preggo.. even lie and be deceitful to others.. and those kind of people you do not want anything to do with them.. Did you make the female be tested prior to this breeding... If not your risking your dogs health. A retainer is a great idea... I am sorry this happened to you.. anne |
02-05-2009, 07:14 PM | #5 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 452
| Quote:
Welcome to YT! There is virtually no way to protect yourself except to deal only with people you personally know to be trustworthy. At last count there are eight (8) of them left....good luck.
__________________ Paris Sophie Bogus Maximus Chezzer Macy Gissimo | |
02-05-2009, 09:12 PM | #6 |
Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Immaterial
Posts: 351
| Wow! That never even occurred to me! (Probably because it is something I would never do so the thought never even popped into my head.) When the litter is registered, doesn't the owner of the dam have to send in something proving the identity of the sire? (I haven't bred AKC pups in 20 years, so I don't remember exactly.) Can't you just withhold that information so she can't register the litter? Show it at the time of stud service, of course, but refuse to provide sire registration information until the pups are born? I think the retainer is a terrific idea, but you'd want to have a standard contract for that sort of thing. I'm sorry this happened to you...it's always us honest folk who get the short straw, eh?
__________________ Sweet Violet Puddin's Mama |
02-05-2009, 11:38 PM | #8 |
Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Immaterial
Posts: 351
| Well, the owner of the female is going to get income from the sale of the pups, which are genetically half of the stud dog. Why shouldn't the owner of the stud dog gain income from her dog's part in creating the puppies. Expecting free stud service is a bit like expecting a stranger to just give you money!
__________________ Sweet Violet Puddin's Mama |
02-05-2009, 11:42 PM | #9 |
Thor's Human Donating Member | I'm not a breeder, so I have no idea how it actually works. I guess I would have thought that since the female actually bears the burden of pregnancy, her participation would be much more valuable. Aren't female puppies more expensive? My thinking would be that capitalism would drive the price of studs to zero, since it's only a few minutes of the male's time. Wouldn't anyone with a male dog be happy to let him breed? |
02-05-2009, 11:53 PM | #10 |
Donating YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Immaterial
Posts: 351
| No, it doesn't work that way. In animal breeding, the semen from champions is quite valuable. In horses and cattle, for example, it can be worth thousands of dollars for a single insemination if the stud/bull has desirable bloodlines. It has nothing to do with which dog bears which burden but in the economics of breeding. It costs just as much to feed and vet a male Yorkie as it does to feed and vet a female. Breeding can defray the cost of owning the dog, especially for the owners of males as they don't have to bear the cost of raising a litter. But if it wasn't for the male dog, there would be no puppies, so it seems to me that the owner of the male has as much right to income from breeding her dog as the owner of the female. It really has nothing to do with the male dog "having fun." People who do not plan to breed their dogs get them neutered for a reason: marking, aggression, dominance issues, etc. A person who keeps their male AKC registered dog intact likely does so in order to breed the dog and collect stud fees or take litter pick in order to build up their own kennel or to sell. I've been out of dog breeding for more than 20 years so I have no idea what things cost any more, but stud fees on a male with good bloodlines was about equal to the price I would get for one of my puppies, which is why "pick of the litter" is a viable alternative.
__________________ Sweet Violet Puddin's Mama Last edited by SweetViolet; 02-05-2009 at 11:54 PM. |
02-06-2009, 12:02 AM | #11 |
Thor's Human Donating Member | I'm not arguing right and wrong here, just trying to understand. It would seem to me that the female incurs more costs and risks for pregnancy. That she owns the pups she produces would just make her more valuable. Here is what I am missing: I would think that since the male's effort is close to zero, that most owners of males would be willing to undercut each other's prices, because maintaining the non-pregnant dog is not a lot of work. While the male contributes 50% of the genes, the female's health is more important since her body will be housing the puppies. From that logic, the female's genetics would be more important, and you could make do with a decent stud. Or even hedge your bets, since a dam's litter can have multiple fathers, correct? Since this isn't the way it works in the real world, I can see that my reasoning is not the same as breeders'... it just sounds right to me! |
02-06-2009, 05:41 AM | #12 | |
YT Addict Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 452
| Quote:
A female can only produce a certain amount of puppies, the male can produce many thousands. For this reason there is really no reason to use an inferior male. If you want the right male you should be prepared to pay more for the stud service than you paid to PURCHASE your female in many cases. When you hold back from the breeding and place the puppies you still have what you wanted at a lower cost. You would then want to never forget the birthday of the person who made this advancement in your program possible. Most of us will keep our males to ourselves because we are working on our vision of the perfect puppy and we don't want to give away one of the building blocks. I am pefectly willing to trade with someone who has a great male that will help me along but I have very little interest in studding out unless I am just doing a nice thing to help a friend....improve a program...not make vacation money. The value is not in the number of puppies produced...it's in the quality.
__________________ Paris Sophie Bogus Maximus Chezzer Macy Gissimo | |
02-06-2009, 08:00 AM | #13 |
Currently Suspended! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Berlin MD US
Posts: 381
| I have been breeding yorkies for 25+ years and I never have just one yorkie male to choice from. If you are breeding to better the breed you want to find a male that is genetically going to hopefully improve your line. I certainly wouldn't want to use someone's stud because he was cheap or free just to get puppies to sell. If I have a female large in ear I look for a male that has been proven to threw a smaller ear et cetera. I have never heard of anyone doing the puppy back thing with yorkies before. Unless it is a close friend of yours and you guys are working something out. You really never know what is going on in people's heads so I make sure everything is written down and agreed upon first. Sorry to hear you had to go through all that. |
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