Question about x-rays

[Terranova]

I have a question about the cost/benefits of x-rays on pregnant females. I'm a developmental psychobiologist with my scientific expertise on the early effects of various treatments (imaging, drug exposure, sensory stimuli, etc) on the development of small mammals (mice, rats, other rodents, cats and dogs). I've not found any scientific literature that demonstrates that x-rays are benign. Imaging, especially x-rays, have extraordinary effects on the early behavioral and physiological development of a fetus. The effects are especially pronounced in those species with short gestational periods. So I was somewhat shocked that most breeders have the dams x-rayed. Is the only point of an x-ray to determine how many pups to expect?

The reason I ask this group is that I've got a pregnant morkie and I am extremely reluctant to have her x-rayed just to determine the number of pups I'll expect to help deliver.

I'm not a novice to delivering small animals, I've been responsible for delivering thousands of small mammals as part of some of my research, some of the animals specially breed (for genetic studies) and are priceless (meaning upwards of $10 to 20 K for each animal). I'm just wondering if this is just something that is a convenience, or suggested by a vet (to help pay their rent), or is really necessary. Do the images give you details regarding CNS development, cardiovascular abnormalities, or what?

I'm also somewhat reluctant to use my ultrasound on my female. Although it would be less damaging than an x-ray, I'm not sure of what the purpose would be beyond getting a head count.

Any and all replies are welcome.

Thanks.

[tjdmom]

I think, aside from a head count which is not always accurate... you could also see whether you had a large puppy who would either make a difficult or impossible natural delivery.

[luckylady]

Originally Posted by Terranova

I have a question about the cost/benefits of x-rays on pregnant females. I'm a developmental psychobiologist with my scientific expertise on the early effects of various treatments (imaging, drug exposure, sensory stimuli, etc) on the development of small mammals (mice, rats, other rodents, cats and dogs). I've not found any scientific literature that demonstrates that x-rays are benign. Imaging, especially x-rays, have extraordinary effects on the early behavioral and physiological development of a fetus. The effects are especially pronounced in those species with short gestational periods. So I was somewhat shocked that most breeders have the dams x-rayed. Is the only point of an x-ray to determine how many pups to expect?
The reason I ask this group is that I've got a pregnant morkie and I am extremely reluctant to have her x-rayed just to determine the number of pups I'll expect to help deliver.

I'm not a novice to delivering small animals, I've been responsible for delivering thousands of small mammals as part of some of my research, some of the animals specially breed (for genetic studies) and are priceless (meaning upwards of $10 to 20 K for each animal). I'm just wondering if this is just something that is a convenience, or suggested by a vet (to help pay their rent), or is really necessary. Do the images give you details regarding CNS development, cardiovascular abnormalities, or what?

I'm also somewhat reluctant to use my ultrasound on my female. Although it would be less damaging than an x-ray, I'm not sure of what the purpose would be beyond getting a head count.

Any and all replies are welcome.

Thanks.

I have had only one litter so far, so I am not an expert. You stated that "Imaging, especially x-rays, have extraordinary effects on the early behavioral and physiological development of a fetus." I have learned that an xray is not done on the female until the last week of pregnancy, so would that still be considered the EARLY behavioral and physiological development of a fetus? It being my first experiance at whelping a litter of yorkies, I definitely wanted to be prepared. The xray gave me confindence in knowing not only how many pups to expect, but also their size in comparison to coming down & through the birth canal. The four pups were all born alive and healthy.

[katelin]

I usually do a sonogram on my female around 32-35 days from first tie to determine if there are any viable fetus -- looking for heartbeats, number and also size. Number is not always accurate, and size helps determine whether female conceived on first tie or a later. I also switch female's food to puppy food if she is pregnant and add 1/2 tablet of Pet-Cal to her diet for remainder of pregnancy. I wouldn't do that if she were not pregnant with at least one viable puppy.

I x-ray during last week of pregnancy to determine how many puppies, position, and size compared to pelvic opening. Not always accurate with number of puppies, but you get an idea of what to expect. Positions change, but still nice to know if they are still high up, all on one side, etc. In a new female with first litter, it is always good to see the size of the puppies' heads to the spread of the pelvic opening to prepare for a c-section if the puppies are too big already.

Nothing we see in sonogram or x-ray is set in stone. But I like having as much knowledge as I can get going into a whelp. I've not seen any evidence these procedures cause problems, but if you have any I'd be interested in seeing it.

[Terranova]

Sorry, I should have clarified; by fetal development I was referring to in utero development. Since this species is typically born altricial and poikilothermic, they would be considered roughly similar to psychobiological development of a 4 to 8 month human fetus (taking into account the state of their development, i.e. eyes closed, lack of fur/hair, ears closed or partially open, ability to get rid of waist, etc).

All developing mammals (as well as thousands of other specific groups) have the ability to learn (thus be affected "by experience") from an amazingly early stage of development.

So what I really meant to say was that most all early experiences, regardless of how small or large, have some kind of effect on both physiology, neurological activity, and behavioral development. In some cases early exposure can have much more devastating effects. In other cases early exposure might have less devastating effect. Pick your early experience: diet, drugs, stress, cardiovascular changes, odors, taste, pain, pleasure, neurochemical changes..................... etc.

Now that I feel better about spouting about my pet peeves. Thank you for your advice. Since I'm not likely to be having any of these babies applying to Duke or Harvard in the next few years I suspect that my concerns might be a little over the top.

Perhaps knowing what you're in for before you get there might be a little helpful and not make it a survivor challenge.

I'm just a little surprised that this is a regular course of the breeding protocol if the assumption is to do as little harm as possible.

Thanks.

[bjh]

I have been breeding yorkies over 10 years and have never x-rayed my pregnant bitches. Most of those breeders that do x-ray say that even if the bitch looks like she is carrying a big puppy they still let the bitch try to deliver the puppy. I am one that tends to go along with your way of thinking, why stress out the bitch a week before she is due by taking her to the vet and exposing her to who knows what. I know many breeders that do not x-ray so I think it is just a matter of preference. Some breeders just feel more comfortable doing x-rays.

[BamaFan121s]

I have never had an x-ray done. I have always had a sonar done instead--I prefer that method as the vet is able to get a moving picture of the pups inside and can work with moving around until she/I are satisfied with what we are seeing.

No, the primary reason for having an x-ray/sonar done on an expecting bitch is not to find out how many there are. There is no guaranteed as to the accuracy of an in-utero head count. I believe the primary purpose to having the procedure performed is to give the breeder/vet advanced notice as to if any of the pups seemed to have developed to a size that *may* be too large for natural delivery, possibly warranting a c-section. The breeder and vet can plan accordingly if it seems like that might be a possibility which by far beats the alternative of it being completely unexpected and having to rush in to have an emergency c-section performed.
It's not a practice deemed as neccessary by all breeders, in particular more seasoned breeders who have gained the experience to help them determine, prevent and predict these issues without the procedure.

If it were me, I would at least consider the option of having a sonar or x-ray performed on your girl. Given the fact that she is not even a year old yet and still developing, that this is her first litter and that pelvic structure plays a vital role in a bitch's ability to whelp freely without complications, I would think it would be best to have a better general idea of what to expect with the upcoming delivery. I see however that you have your reservations about the possible effects--you have to follow your gut and do what you think is in the best interest of YOUR female and the puppies, as all breeders aim to do.

[Terranova]

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I'm happy to see that not everyone does multiple x-rays or images on their preganant dams. I suspect that there are times when it is necessary, but at the same time, given no other issues, it might just be an added stressor and added expense.

I'll let you know how it all goes.

[wildcard]

I would be more concerned about the effects on your bitch of whelping puppies at such a young age. I have a girl at home of that same age and she is nowhere near being mature enough to mother a litter, such a baby still herself and she deserves her puppyhood. I train for competitive obedience and agility and there is a world of difference between a 10 month old and a 2 year old. That aside, I do xray my bitches prior to whelping but I try to do it as close to their due date as I can because I want that "last minute" info re; size and position and also a head count since I am not comfortable palpating my bitches to see whether they are done whelping. My first litter I did not x ray which was unfortunate as I lost a puppy that I probably would not have lost had I known there was a potential problem ahead of time. Since then I do xray and have not had any adverse effects, my puppies are actually very good learners (these dogs do agility, obed, and rally) and due to the early neuro stim exercises and other things I introduce early on I see a remarkable increase in their abilities over the dogs I have gotten from my own breeder, who does not x ray at all. Totally unscientific but those are my observations, I used to do an ultrasound to verify pregnancy but I have gotten more patient recently lol and don't use it anymore.

[yorkiekist]

I usually have my expecting moms x-rayed about 5 days before delivery date. My vet is very good at evaluating this to see if I am more than likely to need a c-section or not and I can schedule one and not frantically run to an emergency room and to an unknown vet. I also like to know how many are due that way I know for sure she is done. I have never had any side effects what so ever on any of the puppies or the moms.