How can a

[yorkieisme]

yorkie be charted at 6 lbs if his mother is 12 lbs and his father is 5 lbs. Also I know you breeders are wanting bigger females to weed out the problems while giving birth but isn't 12 lbs a little to much for a breeder yorkie? I am so confused on this. I thought I found the perfect little male until I asked for additional pictures, parents size. I received the additional pictures (I asked for normal pictures) instead I received a dressed up yorkie that looked a little bit bigger then he should be up against a pillow and on a lap. What do I need to say when I ask about babies to where I am not wasting your time nor mine?

[Duncanmom]

YOu need to decide what size yorkie you are interested in. The standard says 4-7 lbs - but sometimes breeders have smaller, and sometimes larger. Still make wonderful pets. The yorkie is a man made breed and there are larger breeds behind them, so a larger one is not uncommon.

Ask the breeder how much the pup weights now, if its 8 weeks in your mind triple that, if its 12 weeks, double that weight. That will give you the best guestimate on its mature adult size. Not exact science but enough of an idea.

[YorkieRose]

Yes..12 pounds is a bit much!!! Some breeders are under the mistaken idea if you use an oversized bitch you will have few problems..then breed to a smaller male and it will all even out to a normal size...they think it is like mixing white paint with black and you get grey...not so with genetic's.

[Jeri Cunningham]

My vet said the female determines the size of the pups in the litter. I can vouch for that with my Krissy who when not over weight is around 8 lbs and with her puppies only one was small ( my Kayla) the rest are moms size and build. The last letter the sire was 5 lbs and most of the pups were 7 to 8 lbs.

[Miley's mom]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

yorkie be charted at 6 lbs if his mother is 12 lbs and his father is 5 lbs. Also I know you breeders are wanting bigger females to weed out the problems while giving birth but isn't 12 lbs a little to much for a breeder yorkie? I am so confused on this. I thought I found the perfect little male until I asked for additional pictures, parents size. I received the additional pictures (I asked for normal pictures) instead I received a dressed up yorkie that looked a little bit bigger then he should be up against a pillow and on a lap. What do I need to say when I ask about babies to where I am not wasting your time nor mine?

I would not breed a 12 pound , but it is very possible for this pair to produce a puppy of 6 pounds full grown and even smaller ones ........genetics will show (some can be like mom and others like dad), maybe the puppy is looking after the daddy or maybe grandparents are smaller yorkies. If you are looking just for a pet and you do like this male , I don't see a problem...now if you are looking for breeding , I would not buy one with parents that are way over the standard as it is more likely that he will end up throwing some big puppies down the road, just like grandma.

[wildcard]

Size is something that is very complicated genetics-wise. The size of sire and dam are not the only factors, you have to look further back in the pedigrees of the dogs and then even sometimes nature throws you for a loop. Generally the tighter the breeding (meaning the more closely related the parents are) the more predicable size will be. That said, on my first litter of papillons (where there is a height standard not a weight standard) I bred a 9.5 inch male and an 10.75 inch bitch (both within the standard), where the sire's sire and the dam's grandsire were the same dog (he was a 9.5 inch dog) and full grown the three bitches from that litter are 8.25 inches, 9.25 inches, and 11.25 inches! So you can see how even in a medium tight line-breeding size can run amok. Now my current litter (they are 4 days old today), sire and dam are almost exactly the same size (a tad over 9 inches) but it is an outcross (between an outcrossed bitch and a tightly linebred sire) so it will be interesting to see what happens with the sizes.

So very much more to getting predictable results than just looking at mom and dad...

For anyone that is interested in a really great guide summarizing the practical application of canine genetics I highly recommend Claudia Orlandi's ABCs of Dog Breeding book. She does a seminar as well that I can't wait to attend someday.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by wildcard

Size is something that is very complicated genetics-wise. The size of sire and dam are not the only factors, you have to look further back in the pedigrees of the dogs and then even sometimes nature throws you for a loop. Generally the tighter the breeding (meaning the more closely related the parents are) the more predicable size will be. That said, on my first litter of papillons (where there is a height standard not a weight standard) I bred a 9.5 inch male and an 10.75 inch bitch (both within the standard), where the sire's sire and the dam's grandsire were the same dog (he was a 9.5 inch dog) and full grown the three bitches from that litter are 8.25 inches, 9.25 inches, and 11.25 inches! So you can see how even in a medium tight line-breeding size can run amok. Now my current litter (they are 4 days old today), sire and dam are almost exactly the same size (a tad over 9 inches) but it is an outcross (between an outcrossed bitch and a tightly linebred sire) so it will be interesting to see what happens with the sizes.

So very much more to getting predictable results than just looking at mom and dad...

For anyone that is interested in a really great guide summarizing the practical application of canine genetics I highly recommend Claudia Orlandi's ABCs of Dog Breeding book. She does a seminar as well that I can't wait to attend someday.

Interesting

[Sugar's Mom]

i would never breed a 12 lb dog but I know some that do. And as far as fewer problems with the larger bitches, a girl I used to have weighed 7lbs , had two puppies, one born dead and almost died herself and would have died had I not rushed her to the vet. that was also my first whelping. After that experience, it was almost my last.

[yorkieisme]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

i would never breed a 12 lb dog but I know some that do. And as far as fewer problems with the larger bitches, a girl I used to have weighed 7lbs , had two puppies, one born dead and almost died herself and would have died had I not rushed her to the vet. that was also my first whelping. After that experience, it was almost my last.

Dee how is everyone doing so far? Do I need to go ahead and put a deposit down on a little girl instead? How did the show go also?

[xxmxaxrxyxx]

Originally Posted by wildcard

Size is something that is very complicated genetics-wise. The size of sire and dam are not the only factors, you have to look further back in the pedigrees of the dogs and then even sometimes nature throws you for a loop. Generally the tighter the breeding (meaning the more closely related the parents are) the more predicable size will be. That said, on my first litter of papillons (where there is a height standard not a weight standard) I bred a 9.5 inch male and an 10.75 inch bitch (both within the standard), where the sire's sire and the dam's grandsire were the same dog (he was a 9.5 inch dog) and full grown the three bitches from that litter are 8.25 inches, 9.25 inches, and 11.25 inches! So you can see how even in a medium tight line-breeding size can run amok. Now my current litter (they are 4 days old today), sire and dam are almost exactly the same size (a tad over 9 inches) but it is an outcross (between an outcrossed bitch and a tightly linebred sire) so it will be interesting to see what happens with the sizes.

So very much more to getting predictable results than just looking at mom and dad...

For anyone that is interested in a really great guide summarizing the practical application of canine genetics I highly recommend Claudia Orlandi's ABCs of Dog Breeding book. She does a seminar as well that I can't wait to attend someday.

wow thanks for the info! i am going to send my check to get me a copy of this book...here is the link to the info for anyone that wants...

http://www.abcsofdogbreeding.com/How%20to%20Order%20the%20ABC%27s%20of%20Dog%20Bree ding.htm

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Duncanmom

The standard says 4-7 lbs -

Actually, the standard says "not to exceed 7 pounds." There is no 4 pound minimum. But that's beside the point.

In response to the OP, yes, 12 pounds (pre-pregancy) would seem a little excessive to me too. If it was shortly before whelp....hmmm...maybe a different case.
Yes, breeders look for a female that is large enough to deliver safely, maybe even slightly over the standard weight, but who will produce pups w/in the standard range.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by yorkieisme

Dee how is everyone doing so far? Do I need to go ahead and put a deposit down on a little girl instead? How did the show go also?

Whatever you decide. if your heart is set on a male, do not settle. if you want a little baby girl, then privately contact me. my four girls are doing great. Ears all got shaved this morning.

i do have one that will be five to six pounds. I think. others might be smaller