What Is The Breeders Section Here For????

[TeddyandTiffy]

I've been here for 2 & 1/2 Years and I have to say I was once a new Breeder myself. I came to YT for help and I got help. More help then I could ever ask for.

I for one VALUE everything taught to me here on YT. I VALUE that I've been TOLD no Lee you shouldn't do it this way, it should be done this way. I VALUE the wisdom others here has taken the time to pass on to me as a "NEW BREEDER" and YES I consider myself a "NEW BREEDER" for I still have so much to learn in Breeding, Whelping and Raising a Litter of Yorkie Puppies.

Since being here on YT for 2.5 years and we've lost older Breeders with wisdom we so desperately need here, lost new comers here who desperately need the older Breeders wisdom to learn from.

Don't we all have to start somewhere? Our dogs of any breed are not just laid at our feet to breed and whelp. We all have to start some where.

When us "Breeders" try to help others, we get downed for it. Why cause we are telling the truth? Because we've been down that very path of Whelping a litter of Yorkshire Terriers or other Breeds (Didn't want to leave them out either) and don't want to see someone loose their bitch or their litter of puppies so we give our advise.

By Breeders I mean all of us here at YT that Breed, it doesn't matter if we have special whelping rooms, Yorkie/other Breeds rooms, bedrooms, if we live in a big beautiful house, on a farm or in a tiny one bedroom apartment, in the City, Town or Country. If we've had 15 litters of Yorkies or 1, if we dress our Yorkies up in whelping outfits with beautiful hair bows or if their coats are a mess, long or short. We are all BREEDERS..There shouldn't be no big YOUs and little MEs here in the Breeders Section...We should be here to help others for we've Bred, Whelped and Have/Are Raising A Litter Of Yorkies or other Breeds (Didn't want to leave them out either).

Instead of trying to help others we're setting here counting how many puppies are going to be whelped. I can understand trying to get ones mind off of whelping, to try to calm their nerves. That is fine but not here at the Breeders Section. Start a Group for this.

Yes we need kindness but sometimes when kind, serious advice is given to others they their selves or someone else come and say something hateful back to the one who is just concerned about their bitch or litter. And now we wonder why we're loosing Good Valuable YT Members. Why must we down others here on the breeders section?

Take a look at the "Breeder Group" and I know some of you go there and read the post and replies given...Not everyone there agrees but you know what they help each other, don't argue, down each other and when someone is in the wrong they don't care one bit to admit it and say I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. They hug, kiss and make up and MOVE on to help someone else in the group. There's up and downs and lessons to be learned there and some of the "Best Teachers" out there in this group.

So ask yourself why are you here in the Breeders Section? Is it to get honest help? To help someone else from your own personal Breeding, Whelping or Raising A Litter Of Puppies? Or is it to play games, to guess at dates, to down each other? What is your true reason for being here on the Breeders Section?

I give my honest help here in the Breeders Section or at least try to, if there's a question asked that I don't know the answer to or I've not ever experienced from Breeding, Whelping or Raising A Litter from I tell them: "Hopefully someone else more experienced will answer your question". I'm here to try to help. And yes my own post may seem hateful at times, due to my passon for the Yorkshire Terrier Breed and cause I'm trying to learn breeding/whelping/raising Yorkshire Terriers. This is why I'm here in the Breeders Section. Once again these are my OPO and I hope I've not hurt any feelings over my OPOs and if I have I'm sorry. Lee

[Sugar's Mom]

lee, it isn't the breeders causing the trouble but a few non breeders. That's why most of us breeders stay away. The others want the forum so we basically gave it to them and now people are not being helped by experienced breeders but by those that don't even know what it is like to stay up and feed a puppy every hour round the clock for several days and all the other little things about breeding that isn't learned in a book. Just my opinion and opinion are like buttholes, everyone has one.

[mayfateleadyou]

No I am not a breeder yet. But I read through this forum all the time researching the subject. And I must say how some of your (in general not just one person) posts come out down right rude and yes hateful. Advice I understand but there is a way to say things without being either of those and still be passionate. I have well over a year before I breed but evrn when I do I still may not come here for help in fear of automatically being critized for even thinking of breeding. I think what the breeder section needs is for people to offer more help and less prejudice. Again MOO

[tiggerr36792]

It's sad but most reputable breeders have choosen to not speak up anymore in here, because when they do speak the truth as blunt as it is they get accused of being rude or mean. It's a sad truth that we need to give knowledge and assistance to others, but sometimes ppl don't really want to hear the truth about how difficult it is to raise good quality healthy puppies. I have sat by and watched several of my breeder friends as well as myself loose puppies and come on here to tell how difficult this is yet it seems the knowledge tends to fall on deaf ears most of the time. Even the most experienced of breeders loose puppies and when we try to provide others with the knowledge we are assused of being mean and non-supportive. I can't speak for others but I can say that for myself "It sickens me to see and hear ppl breeding tiny babies for profit with no reguard to their dogs well-being." So sometimes its easier to say nothing at all, since we are attacked for being mean when we try to educate. We all understand accidents do happen occassionally, but come on and be honest here when the same suppossed accident happens over and over it gets very old fast! I am very passionate about proper breeding and my babies so if I come across as rude I do appologize.

[sheilajom]

I don't know why people are "jumping on" people who tell the truth. I would much rather someone answer my question with honesty, because that's why I asked it....to know the truth!

[tiggerr36792]

Originally Posted by sheilajom

I don't know why people are "jumping on" people who tell the truth. I would much rather someone answer my question with honesty, because that's why I asked it....to know the truth!

I honestly prefer the truth and total honesty, however I find some people aren't mature enough to handle the truth. When we are bluntly honest about how difficult breeding is it can come across as mean when we are in fact just being honest and passionate.

[mayfateleadyou]

Just to be on the safe side I am not trying to attack anyone for giving honest advice I simply mean to urge people to use more tact to get there meanings across. No don't sit by and say nothing because you think you be attacked but say it in way where you are trung to help someone. Ask ?s before assuming. Like the OP said. Everyone has to start somewhere. Help them by guiding not "being blunt which comes across hateful". It is all a matter of eveyone being civil. Off your advice if they don't take it leave them alone and let someone else try to help.

[mayfateleadyou]

Please excuse bad gramer and typos I'm posting from my phone at work!

[Ladyhawk]

I find that there are times that you can kindly state the truth and you still get accused of being harsh. People come on here and they know already that they haven't done things the right way. When that is pointed out they get defensive and accuse you of hurting their feelings. What is wrong with saying "no you shouldn't breed a 4 pound bitch"? You know it to be true from other's experiences, you have read it in books by long time breeders, why is the truth considered to be rude when it's something that the poster doesn't want to hear? They come on here for quick, easy answers and don't want to hear about how you feel or what is right.
If you were considering sky diving or some other dangerous activity you would take the time to research it. You would find the best equipment, instructor, etc. You would learn all you could so that you could make an educated decision and once made that you could execute it safely. Yet when these people put their dogs life on the line because they want to breed (not the dogs decision) they can't even be bothered with reading a book or going to a show to find someone to talk to. They want the info now or they breed first and hope they can figure out enough here to get by. If you would do so much to protect your own life how can you not do so for those that you are responsible for?
I rarely post here anymore because it makes me physically ill to see so much indescriminate breeding going on and our beautiful breed going down the tube. Just because it's a nice pet doesn't mean that it is worthy to be bred. But of course they don't want to hear that so I'm mean.

[Amber_lv]

I wasn't going to post but i did want to say something.

I mean it's one thing to be honest and helpful and a whole different thing to be petty and rude. I have seen numerous ppl say very rude things and chalk it up to this is a public form i will say whatever i want to it's my right There are other people at the end of the computer they have feelings so expressing your opinion is great if it is done with a little TACT!!

I do also feel there is a couple members on here that are just out to bash every person who breeds, These people to my knowledge have never bred a dog nor do they intend to so i ask WHY DO YOU POST IN THOSE SECTIONS!!!!! Especially when you DON"T HAVE EXPERIANCE!! Stop bashing one another. If some one wants to breed their dog thats their right and trust me no matter how many warnings, bashings, or rude comments they get they are going to breed their dog. Do i feel they are all right no but i feel education would help if presented in a way they will listen and not just shut down. I feel this section is here to help those not only learn about breeding but to educate them when/If things go wrong.

Should people be breeding tiny dogs, out of standard dogs, and just over all not great dogs?? ABSOLUTLY NOT!!!
but they are going to do it anyway. There are some wonderful breeders here that could help educate in a nice helpful manor and unfortunantly a lot have been run off by these petty posters

I really just wish that people could come on and be honest that they want to breed, want to learn and want to be good at it and not be called a BYB, Puppy Mill, Unethical Or Bad Person.
Everyone started somewhere. Maybe just maybe if we were all a little more open these "ACCIDENTS" would stop happening and people would be more educated not only about breeding but about buying a puppy within the standard.

Ok off my soap box and this was not intended to hurt any feelings it's just MPO Ty to the op for posting and to the breeders posting as well

[Amber_lv]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

I find that there are times that you can kindly state the truth and you still get accused of being harsh. People come on here and they know already that they haven't done things the right way. When that is pointed out they get defensive and accuse you of hurting their feelings. What is wrong with saying "no you shouldn't breed a 4 pound bitch"? You know it to be true from other's experiences, you have read it in books by long time breeders, why is the truth considered to be rude when it's something that the poster doesn't want to hear? They come on here for quick, easy answers and don't want to hear about how you feel or what is right.
If you were considering sky diving or some other dangerous activity you would take the time to research it. You would find the best equipment, instructor, etc. You would learn all you could so that you could make an educated decision and once made that you could execute it safely. Yet when these people put their dogs life on the line because they want to breed (not the dogs decision) they can't even be bothered with reading a book or going to a show to find someone to talk to. They want the info now or they breed first and hope they can figure out enough here to get by. If you would do so much to protect your own life how can you not do so for those that you are responsible for?
I rarely post here anymore because it makes me physically ill to see so much indescriminate breeding going on and our beautiful breed going down the tube. Just because it's a nice pet doesn't mean that it is worthy to be bred. But of course they don't want to hear that so I'm mean.

I do agree with what you have said I think a lot of them rush into breeding to make a quick buck (or so they think) and truely endanger the dogs. but not every person who wants to breed is like this. some have researched for years but feel they need some aproval or some reasurrance that what they have learned is right. But if their legs are cut off at the knee's from their first word it really hurts people's feelings all thier time and research i am sure feels like for nothing I do feel bad for some that have truely done their homework and just can't share their joy for fear of being torn apart it's very sad

**Edited to add i re-read my first post i want to clear that i am not bashing the breeders here i feel a lot of them have been very helpful

[myjordash]

I would hope that this section is here to help other people breeding Yorkies, that are not as experienced. I come here to have questions answered, and occasionally to help others, if I feel I can, but most of the time I feel there is someone more experienced to answer, so I don't. I do not stick around all the time. I do see alot of people VERY inexperienced coming on here as the first step in research, and rather than reading past posts, they ask questions first....then RUN. I am a part of a Parenting Board, people are very passionate with their views on parenting styles, and you have alot of different types of people on that board.....BUT, we have alot of respect for each other, and never put someone down for asking a question, or expressing an opinion. We are VERY careful, to make sure that when we do have a strong opinion, we express it in a way that takes the other person's feelings into account.

I have a great deal of respect for the "experienced" breeders on this board, and for that reason, I have stayed away from all debates, and pretty much stayed away from the board, unless I need help. I would never want to hurt anyone, and I NEED you to be there, if I NEED your help. It saddens me to think that this type of support is no longer available from the "experienced" breeders on this board.

Maybe we can open a forum for new "breeders" to simply ask questions, and a different BREEDERS Forum, for people in need of assistance. I do understand the "experienced" breeders that are here all the time, getting frustrated with the same inquiry type posts over and over, but then when someone might REALLY be in a bind, or REALLY need help, there will be no one experienced to turn to, because they got frustrated with the inquiry posts.

I am really not sure if this made any sense, but I am sad that I came back here, and I am reading that the breeders I came back to for guidance, to learn from, and possibly for assistance are no longer here and willing/able to help.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Amber_lv

There are some wonderful breeders here that could help educate in a nice helpful manor and unfortunantly a lot have been run off by these petty posters

See, this is where I have concerns with threads like these and discussions such as this because: WHO is going to be the end-all-be-all judge when it comes to determining if something is "a nice helpful manner" or "a petty poster"?

What's the definition of helpful? What's the definition of education? Who's going to determine if something is educational enough or not enough - or inappropriate?

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

I find that there are times that you can kindly state the truth and you still get accused of being harsh. People come on here and they know already that they haven't done things the right way. When that is pointed out they get defensive and accuse you of hurting their feelings. What is wrong with saying "no you shouldn't breed a 4 pound bitch"? You know it to be true from other's experiences, you have read it in books by long time breeders, why is the truth considered to be rude when it's something that the poster doesn't want to hear? They come on here for quick, easy answers and don't want to hear about how you feel or what is right.
If you were considering sky diving or some other dangerous activity you would take the time to research it. You would find the best equipment, instructor, etc. You would learn all you could so that you could make an educated decision and once made that you could execute it safely. Yet when these people put their dogs life on the line because they want to breed (not the dogs decision) they can't even be bothered with reading a book or going to a show to find someone to talk to. They want the info now or they breed first and hope they can figure out enough here to get by. If you would do so much to protect your own life how can you not do so for those that you are responsible for?
I rarely post here anymore because it makes me physically ill to see so much indescriminate breeding going on and our beautiful breed going down the tube. Just because it's a nice pet doesn't mean that it is worthy to be bred. But of course they don't want to hear that so I'm mean.

Great post, Tami I think everyone should think about the dogs being bred and the puppies being brought into this world foremost, the breed second, the potential people buying these puppies third, and then themselves last. I think this is a forum for educating others about the breed and breeding in an ethical way

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

....What is wrong with saying "no you shouldn't breed a 4 pound bitch"?

Nothing at all. However (and this is just my opinion), consider how differently these two responses come across:

OP: "I want to breed my little girl. She is a teacup and weighs four pounds. Any advice would be appreciated."

Response #1: "You don't know nearly enough about Yorkies to be breeding. There is no such thing as a teacup Yorkie. And 4 lbs! Do you want to be responsible for your little girl's death?????"

Response #2: "It's great that you are researching before you breed. You'll want to take a look at.........most breeders prefer their girls to be at least 5 lbs., due to the risks involved. I would suggest reading........it is also wise to find a mentor. Usually a person will need to research for many months (or years) before breeding......"

Both responses are honest, but only one will tend to initiate further conversation and education.