Panic Stricken: Is Female Impregnated By Her Brother?

[MMMMM]

I AM JUST SICK ABOUT THIS!!!!!

My male and female littermates are currently 8 months old. I allowed the female to be slightly more dominant of the two, since she is smaller than he is.

The vet advised that I shouldn’t have them neutered until at least 8 months of age due to their size. They are both only halfway through teething, so I didn’t expect her heat so soon. I also thought I should wait in case they also needed dental surgery if their baby teeth didn’t all fall out. Their canines are only 1/4 way in.

4 days ago, I noticed that the female’s vulva area was engorged and she was spotting red blood. No stains on sofas, etc., since she was keeping herself clean. However, for the last 2 days, she has only rarely spotted a very light pink fluid.

At no time have I seen the male show any interest in her condition. Neither has whined or acted abnormally, except fore a little more affection towards each other, such as lying down close together a couple of times a day. There is absolutely no craziness, as most dogs will do around a fertile female.

They have been together when I’ve been able to watch them and I’ve tried to keep them separated when I haven’t, but she snuck over the baby gate when I had to go to the doctor a day after she started spotting.

The male has RARELY shown ANY interest in sex, although his “boys” had descended about 6 to 8 weeks ago. He has only been around an adult male dog a couple of times about 3 months ago. After those visits, my two would start to try to hump each other 2 or 3 times, but “No” made them stop. Usually, SHE was the one that was on top of HIM! He hasn’t shown any signs of sexual behavior since then, and he hasn’t witnessed any human or other animal’s sexual activity either.

From what I have read, I believed that the female would be “safe” for at least the first 7 to 10 days after starting to spot red blood. Since it’s recommended that a female should not be spayed while in heat, I had made plans to have the male neutered early next week, which was as soon as I could get the appointment. I planned on being very vigilant in separating them over the weekend.

1) Since her heat has been so unusual, could she be pregnant or could it be because a first heat doesn’t always follow the normal course?

2) Could she have started her heat without a swollen vulva?

3) Do males need a role model, or do they automatically know what to do around a fertile female?

4) Are males as turned on by their sisters as they are by other females? Could the scent of his own “flesh and blood” make him more immune to her hormonal state?

5) Are increased signs of affection an indication that they have mated?

6) Does a pregnancy test and/or a “morning after” pill exist that I could give her?

7) Should I have her spayed ASAP even though she is still swollen and is lightly spotting? How safe is a hysterectomy it if she is pregnant? Is an abortion (do they do them on dogs?) and having her spayed afterwards a better alternative?

8) They were both treated with Revolution shortly after I got them, due to finding fleas in the house. Could this affect her fertility cycle?

I FEEL JUST AWFUL!!!!! I have tried my hardest to be a responsible pet owner in every way, and now this has happened. I would be feeling rotten enough even if they weren’t brother and sister. I can’t bear the thought of a bunch of deformed puppies and the risk to my baby’s life is terrifying me!

What a nightmare! Your advice would be most appreciated. Please don’t beat me up about it, although I deserve it over and over again. I’m doing that enough to myself already.

[BakersDozen]

This has happened to the most cautious of owners, so while your concern is great, try not to beat yourself up even more! I am not a breeder, so am not qualified to answer most of your questions. I'm sure one will be along before long....so I will only comment on what I know. I do know that males do not need a role model; although some may not be as confident at first, and may need a little help, they basically instinctively know what to do, without having to observe other sexual activity. Technique may vary, but they figure it out. And being related makes no difference. Their sexual behavior is based on instinct alone. Mother, sister, aunt, etc....doesn't matter. This is not a perverse thing, it is just how dogs are. Also, inbreeding is a breeding technique sometimes used by some experienced breeders to bring out good (or bad) traits and conditions--so inbreeding does not necessarily result in "deformed" puppies.

Sorry I cannot comment with any authority on the other questions! I know you will get some good advice here.

[jeanietoo]

You need to do a lot more then "try" to keep them seperated. I'm a little confused by your post. Are you saying she's been in heat 4 or 6 days? If you knew she was in heat why didn't you make sure she was spmeplace sucure? If she is only no more than on her 6th day she should be OK but please seperate them immediately. I would take your male to be neutered asap. I would talk to your vet about how long after her heat she can be spayed.

[feminvstr]

Originally Posted by MMMMM

I AM JUST SICK ABOUT THIS!!!!!

My male and female littermates are currently 8 months old. I allowed the female to be slightly more dominant of the two, since she is smaller than he is.

The vet advised that I shouldn’t have them neutered until at least 8 months of age due to their size. They are both only halfway through teething, so I didn’t expect her heat so soon. I also thought I should wait in case they also needed dental surgery if their baby teeth didn’t all fall out. Their canines are only 1/4 way in.

4 days ago, I noticed that the female’s vulva area was engorged and she was spotting red blood. No stains on sofas, etc., since she was keeping herself clean. However, for the last 2 days, she has only rarely spotted a very light pink fluid.

At no time have I seen the male show any interest in her condition. Neither has whined or acted abnormally, except fore a little more affection towards each other, such as lying down close together a couple of times a day. There is absolutely no craziness, as most dogs will do around a fertile female.

They have been together when I’ve been able to watch them and I’ve tried to keep them separated when I haven’t, but she snuck over the baby gate when I had to go to the doctor a day after she started spotting.

The male has RARELY shown ANY interest in sex, although his “boys” had descended about 6 to 8 weeks ago. He has only been around an adult male dog a couple of times about 3 months ago. After those visits, my two would start to try to hump each other 2 or 3 times, but “No” made them stop. Usually, SHE was the one that was on top of HIM! He hasn’t shown any signs of sexual behavior since then, and he hasn’t witnessed any human or other animal’s sexual activity either.

From what I have read, I believed that the female would be “safe” for at least the first 7 to 10 days after starting to spot red blood. Since it’s recommended that a female should not be spayed while in heat, I had made plans to have the male neutered early next week, which was as soon as I could get the appointment. I planned on being very vigilant in separating them over the weekend.

1) Since her heat has been so unusual, could she be pregnant or could it be because a first heat doesn’t always follow the normal course? each bitch is different, did you ever witness a tie and were they ever left alone unsupervised?

2) Could she have started her heat without a swollen vulva? her vulver may swell prior to, how long have you noticed bleeding?

3) Do males need a role model, or do they automatically know what to do around a fertile female? some young males may not know, others will know exactly what to do....

4) Are males as turned on by their sisters as they are by other females? Could the scent of his own “flesh and blood” make him more immune to her hormonal state? related or not doesnt matter, dogs will be dogs.

5) Are increased signs of affection an indication that they have mated? personality changes happen while in heat, being more affectionate and needy is sign of heat as well could be signs of pregnancy.

6) Does a pregnancy test and/or a “morning after” pill exist that I could give her?

7) Should I have her spayed ASAP even though she is still swollen and is lightly spotting? How safe is a hysterectomy it if she is pregnant? Is an abortion (do they do them on dogs?) and having her spayed afterwards a better alternative? if she is still in her heat, waiting until she is out and yes you can have her spayed.

8) They were both treated with Revolution shortly after I got them, due to finding fleas in the house. Could this affect her fertility cycle? I dont advise using any flea control on pregnant or nursing moms, avoid anything with chemicals.

I FEEL JUST AWFUL!!!!! I have tried my hardest to be a responsible pet owner in every way, and now this has happened. I would be feeling rotten enough even if they weren’t brother and sister. I can’t bear the thought of a bunch of deformed puppies and the risk to my baby’s life is terrifying me!

What a nightmare! Your advice would be most appreciated. Please don’t beat me up about it, although I deserve it over and over again. I’m doing that enough to myself already.

if they have not mated then there should be nothing to worry about, keep them totally separated (in different rooms) until she is totally out of heat..

[MMMMM]

Thank you. You've made me feel a little better already.

I didn't know that breeders sometimes selectively chose inbreeding. Very interesting!

I've been researching silent and split heats...it might be what I'm dealing with.

I better go and check on him, and will sign back on later.

[Ellie May]

I'm sorry this happened.
It sounds like you tried your best.

I would spay the female as soon as she is done with this heat as long as the vet is comfortable with it. It would end the pregnancy. Some won't do it during heat because there is more blood involved but they might do it right after.

[feminvstr]

Originally Posted by MMMMM

I didn't know that breeders sometimes selectively chose inbreeding. Very interesting!

NOT brother to sister!

[kalina82]

females can be spayed while in heat and while pregnant. if they are spayed while pregnant the puppies are aborted and the uterus is taken out as well as the ovaries. Spaying while in heat does make things a little more inflamed but i've worked with a few vets who will do it either way. everything always comes out fine.

[YorkieRose]

Simply make an appointment after her cycle is over and have her spayed..the vet will agree it is time...and while some breeders inbreed, I do not know any sane ones who breed full siblings.

[MyFairLacy]

I would continue to keep them completely seperated...keep them in seperate rooms with the door shut. Get the male neutered as soon as you can. And then as soon as her heat cycle is over in a couple of weeks, go ahead and have her spayed. If she is pregnant, it will end it very early.

[Sunnie]

If she has only started in heat 4-6 days ago, AND he shows no interest in her, chances are they have NOT tied. BUT in a few days, if they are not kept totally seperated, be sure they WILL tie. It is imperative that you keep them totally seperated.. Then get her spayed as soon as the heat cycle is over

[TeddyandTiffy]

Crate U're male now so U don't chance him getting to U're female, they will climb gates, slide through doors when opened! U name it, it can happen.

1 of my boys is in a playpen (Teddys' in playpen, he don't jump has been bred twice with Tiffanie and could care less about breeding), 1 in a crate (Galahad, he's never been with a female and he wants one bad!), 2 gates up and 1 door closed & I even close the other door some too.

My 3 girls is in the back of our house in our Yorkie room while our boys are in the front of our house in our living room. Galahad when I feed/water him STILL trys to wiggle around me and I know he's wanting to get to our gal Sage, I have a man hold on him at all times & yes he's fightin' me the whole time to get out of my arms.

I do allow our boys out every day but, still with gates and doors. When I'm not in the living room to be right there with them then I crate/playpen. I just want to MAKE SURE my babies don't get bred this year, we want to wait till next spring for Sage & Galahad & NO Breeding with Teddy, Sofie or Weezie until ??? So better safe then sorry.

I'd have U're male neutered now. Female when she's out of heat. & I would never hope to inbreed sister and brother!!! Hope this will help U some .

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by BakersDozen

This has happened to the most cautious of owners, so while your concern is great, try not to beat yourself up even more! I am not a breeder, so am not qualified to answer most of your questions. I'm sure one will be along before long....so I will only comment on what I know. I do know that males do not need a role model; although some may not be as confident at first, and may need a little help, they basically instinctively know what to do, without having to observe other sexual activity. Technique may vary, but they figure it out. And being related makes no difference. Their sexual behavior is based on instinct alone. Mother, sister, aunt, etc....doesn't matter. This is not a perverse thing, it is just how dogs are. Also, inbreeding is a breeding technique sometimes used by some experienced breeders to bring out good (or bad) traits and conditions--so inbreeding does not necessarily result in "deformed" puppies.

Sorry I cannot comment with any authority on the other questions! I know you will get some good advice here.

Now that I read this over, I must apologize if the impression resulting is that selective inbreeding normally includes brother to sister....I was making the point first that the male doesn't care who he breeds to. They don't know and don't care who the female is. Then the second point was that inbreeding is used by experienced breeders to bring out good and bad traits. I was not meaning to imply that they bred sister to brother, just making the point that breeding close relatives does not necessarily result in deformed puppies.

I can see how these two separate statement, taken together, could result in the misunderstanding. It didn't occur to me as I was typing it, how it could be interpreted.