I Have to Say Something

[BamaFan121s]

I would just like to say something, generally speaking, not directed at anyone individually. I read a thread today that really made me think and helped me put alot of my thoughts into words:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=122236

The thread in itself is a prime example of why people come here for help and don't get it, why people ask questions and don't get answers.

I have not been on in a few weeks...I've been dealing with some major speedbumps in life and have not had the chance to log on. Now that things are settling down and I have the chance to think about something else for a minute, I read all this and it just makes me want to cut my PC off.

Honestly, the disregard for these dogs and the attitudes directed at those who DO try to help is enough to turn anyone off of YT and breeding altogether.

More and more frequently, new members/breeders sign up and ask questions. People who clearly have limited (if any) knowledge regarding Yorkies as a breed and the breeding process altogether and people who openly have intention$, goal$ and motivation$, and practice$ generally frowned upon by the Yorkie community and those committed to it.

They come onto YT as newbies, learning as we all once did and ask basic questions--then begins the bickering!

Many of the questions are things that should be researced well in advance of breeding. Breeding is not something that should be picked up as you go along!

Nevertheless, those experienced and with many years of knowledge--either those who can stomach the stress or those who have not given up--answer the questions giving honestly and give good advice. Sometimes the answers are not the ones you want to hear and sometimes they come accross as harsh--all in an attempt to try to get others to realize the seriousness of breeding and how dangerous it can be if done irresponsibly! This results in many new members either genuinely feeling attacked or crying victim to gain support and distract attention from their newly established, questionable breeding practices--bottom line, the dogs and their well being sadly take a backseat to the new, 'more important' issue--who is being 'rude' and who got their feelings hurt. The advice and answers that were given are forgotten, ignored and not followed or even considered by those who claim to be here because they so desperately need help or want to learn?! Something there just doesn't add up. (Or maybe it is just as it seems.)

Then come the comments such as, "They are just going to do it anyway" and "May as well try to help out" Well, I'm sorry, but I for one refuse to 'help out' anyone who breeds irresponsibly. Furthermore, I know there are many others who feel the same way and who have 'given up' trying to help others as it only results in them being criticized for being truthful, God forbid.

So my point is, THIS is why so many of the long time, well respected breeders that are (or were) members here don't even log onto YT anymore and why those who do don't bother to answer questions or help anymore. I can think of several breeders who have been at this a long time, who have shown and had success doing it over the years, who I have learned alot from and who could offer information and share their experiences, greatly benefitting us all--several members who fit this mold but who don't come to YT anymore or bother to post at all.

It's really unfortunate. I can't speak for everyone, but I really miss some of the long time breeders that used to post frequently--I learned alot from them and enjoyed reading what they had to say. Now when I come to the breeder section, it's not filled with anything helpful at all.

I don't know the solution to the problem. Heck, I don't even know if there is a solution! And maybe it's because I've recently had to deal with something that made me reconsider what really takes priority in my life and has made me rethink things I thought I had my mind made up about a long time ago. But for whatever reason, this bickering among people who all have (or claim to have) the same concerns (their dogs!) in mind seems completely ridiculous and petty and completely non-productive. Like I said, I can't fix it, but I can choose not to involve myself in it and rather focus my attention on other things, both on and off YT, relating and not relating to dogs.

If you come on here and ask a question, then listen to the advice given and understand that some answers will be passionate and not what you hoped for, but maybe what you truly need to hear. If you're answering a question, let it go and don't stress over those who refuse to see reason. And regardless of who you are, let your dogs, not some point you are trying to prove, be your main concern.

Anyways....that's all I got.

[EmrldShdwQueen]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I would just like to say something, generally speaking, not directed at anyone individually. I read a thread today that really made me think and helped me put alot of my thoughts into words:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=122236

The thread in itself is a prime example of why people come here for help and don't get it, why people ask questions and don't get answers.

I have not been on in a few weeks...I've been dealing with some major speedbumps in life and have not had the chance to log on. Now that things are settling down and I have the chance to think about something else for a minute, I read all this and it just makes me want to cut my PC off.

Honestly, the disregard for these dogs and the attitudes directed at those who DO try to help is enough to turn anyone off of YT and breeding altogether.

More and more frequently, new members/breeders sign up and ask questions. People who clearly have limited (if any) knowledge regarding Yorkies as a breed and the breeding process altogether and people who openly have intention$, goal$ and motivation$, and practice$ generally frowned upon by the Yorkie community and those committed to it.

They come onto YT as newbies, learning as we all once did and ask basic questions--then begins the bickering!

Many of the questions are things that should be researced well in advance of breeding. Breeding is not something that should be picked up as you go along!

Nevertheless, those experienced and with many years of knowledge--either those who can stomach the stress or those who have not given up--answer the questions giving honestly and give good advice. Sometimes the answers are not the ones you want to hear and sometimes they come accross as harsh--all in an attempt to try to get others to realize the seriousness of breeding and how dangerous it can be if done irresponsibly! This results in many new members either genuinely feeling attacked or crying victim to gain support and distract attention from their newly established, questionable breeding practices--bottom line, the dogs and their well being sadly take a backseat to the new, 'more important' issue--who is being 'rude' and who got their feelings hurt. The advice and answers that were given are forgotten, ignored and not followed or even considered by those who claim to be here because they so desperately need help or want to learn?! Something there just doesn't add up. (Or maybe it is just as it seems.)

Then come the comments such as, "They are just going to do it anyway" and "May as well try to help out" Well, I'm sorry, but I for one refuse to 'help out' anyone who breeds irresponsibly. Furthermore, I know there are many others who feel the same way and who have 'given up' trying to help others as it only results in them being criticized for being truthful, God forbid.

So my point is, THIS is why so many of the long time, well respected breeders that are (or were) members here don't even log onto YT anymore and why those who do don't bother to answer questions or help anymore. I can think of several breeders who have been at this a long time, who have shown and had success doing it over the years, who I have learned alot from and who could offer information and share their experiences, greatly benefitting us all--several members who fit this mold but who don't come to YT anymore or bother to post at all.

It's really unfortunate. I can't speak for everyone, but I really miss some of the long time breeders that used to post frequently--I learned alot from them and enjoyed reading what they had to say. Now when I come to the breeder section, it's not filled with anything helpful at all.

I don't know the solution to the problem. Heck, I don't even know if there is a solution! And maybe it's because I've recently had to deal with something that made me reconsider what really takes priority in my life and has made me rethink things I thought I had my mind made up about a long time ago. But for whatever reason, this bickering among people who all have (or claim to have) the same concerns (their dogs!) in mind seems completely ridiculous and petty and completely non-productive. Like I said, I can't fix it, but I can choose not to involve myself in it and rather focus my attention on other things, both on and off YT, relating and not relating to dogs.

If you come on here and ask a question, then listen to the advice given and understand that some answers will be passionate and not what you hoped for, but maybe what you truly need to hear. If you're answering a question, let it go and don't stress over those who refuse to see reason. And regardless of who you are, let your dogs, not some point you are trying to prove, be your main concern.

Anyways....that's all I got.

Well said Misty!!

People soon forget that this forum is here for THE DOGS, and all too quickly make it about themselves...

I couldn't agree more!

I don't consider myself an experienced breeder, I'm still learning every single day, but I know how to take advice, and that's why I am where I am today. People always ask me how I could've started a breeding program at my age. Well, it was because I listened and learned...and I took all the information in that my mentor, and others who knew what they were doing, had to give me. And I worked, I worked HARD! It's just very insulting when somebody comes on here and says, "hey I just bred my two yorkies...what do I do?"

Even I got completely disgusted the last few weeks, and I have started to type a reply and then deleted it several times.

It's just sad...

[chachi]

I agree! I have seen many times where a breeder was attacked for posting a post that wasnt even rude just blunt. If I were a breeder I wouldnt want to answer questions around here.

[jeanief]

I just went to link and read that post with questions. Is that even a real post? You have had your dog for 3 yrs, supposed testing done, and she asks questions like that? you kidding?? A little late in the game to ask now ! What did she do about the other heats the dog went through and keeping them apart? I think this sound like a kid who is trying to stir things up. If it is a real post, it's very upsetting that she would wait years planning to breed this whole time, and not have the basic knowledge of how dogs breed and when they are fertile, and how to keep them apart !

[BamaFan121s]

It wasn't really any one post or even one thread in particular--just the general feelings being expressed of being new and treated unkindly or ignored altogether...
Thus why I started a new topic...hoping to leave comments regarding a specific situation in their own respective threads and not continue with those detailed conversations...

[MindieRose]

Hi everyone! I just wanted to post a reminder about why this section exists (or tell you for those that do not understand). It is for breeders (experienced and not) to share their experiences, learn from each other, help new members, and to have a place to talk about the lessons, joys, pain, heartache, and excitement of breeding yorkies! It is also for discussion on breeders and if you are not a breeder, you can also post questions for breeders here.

Please be respectful. This is a place for questions and experiences and if you do not like the thread or the topic that has been asked/started do not respond. It is quite that simple.

If you make a post that is off-topic it WILL be deleted. If you make a reply that is rude or a personal attack, you will be suspended and/or banned. The rules of Yorkietalk are just the same here, please remember them and if you have not reviewed them in awhile here is the link

I guess when a new person comes here asking questions, they have probably read this first, and figure they will be treated respectfully and not have to come here on the defense.
The thread you posted, the poster that I commented about was shouting at the original poster. Unless exclaimation points have some how changed meaning since I have been in elementary school. That is not respectful or even just "blunt" for that matter. Bluntness is often rude. YOU may not think so, but when you dont even KNOW a person, and you are shouting at them, that goes beyond blunt even.
This is obviously a very competitive forum. When someone comes here for advice it often turns into a debate, and thats unfortunate. What is SO hard about answering someone politely? Do you think you have the RIGHT to shout and assume things about someone you dont even know? Or be "blunt" with them, when you dont even know what their intentions are?
You want to judge someone else on here that originally wanted to make money off of her dogs. She has obviously heeded a lot of advice, brought her dogs in, and is continuing to ask questions even through the ridicule. Why would someone do that? Because they DONT care about their dogs? I dont think so.
As the quoted post says, if you dont like the thread or the question, dont reply. Its really that easy.
If I posted every little "blunt" comment that crossed my mind in this place, I would have been banned my first 5 minutes here.
Tell me again how having a "holier than thou" attitude about dog breeding is helping the breed please?

[EmrldShdwQueen]

Originally Posted by MindieRose

I guess when a new person comes here asking questions, they have probably read this first, and figure they will be treated respectfully and not have to come here on the defense.
The thread you posted, the poster that I commented about was shouting at the original poster. Unless exclaimation points have some how changed meaning since I have been in elementary school. That is not respectful or even just "blunt" for that matter. Bluntness is often rude. YOU may not think so, but when you dont even KNOW a person, and you are shouting at them, that goes beyond blunt even.
This is obviously a very competitive forum. When someone comes here for advice it often turns into a debate, and thats unfortunate. What is SO hard about answering someone politely? Do you think you have the RIGHT to shout and assume things about someone you dont even know? Or be "blunt" with them, when you dont even know what their intentions are?
You want to judge someone else on here that originally wanted to make money off of her dogs. She has obviously heeded a lot of advice, brought her dogs in, and is continuing to ask questions even through the ridicule. Why would someone do that? Because they DONT care about their dogs? I dont think so.
As the quoted post says, if you dont like the thread or the question, dont reply. Its really that easy.
If I posted every little "blunt" comment that crossed my mind in this place, I would have been banned my first 5 minutes here.
Tell me again how having a "holier than thou" attitude about dog breeding is helping the breed please?

I don't believe that Misty was the one shouting, correct me if I'm wrong. Again, as she stated above, she is making a general statement, which I and plenty of others happen to agree with.

[MindieRose]

I was talking about the thread that she has posted about. I had commented in that thread, and I believe thats what she is referring to. The post I had replied to, the person was shouting. I know she wasnt in this thread. She doesnt want to bring up conversation from another thread, but yet she posted the link to the thread? I guess thats confusing.

[MindieRose]

A lot of people dont know the things about dog breeding that some might see as "obvious" things. If someone comes here asking a question, its because they DONT know, and they apparently want to learn. If someone comes here and says "I have dogs, they have bred, now what do I do?" APPARENTLY, they didnt KNOW to do their homework first. People cannot be faulted for ignorance or just never knowing. I personally grew up in the country, on a farm, and the neighbors dog always got one of our dogs or cats pregnant or vice versa. Now back then, and out in the middle of nowhere, no one got their dogs fixed, the dogs ran freely, and if your dog got pregnant (GASP!) usually friends and neighbors would take a puppy. THATS JUST HOW IT WAS. So would a person that perhaps has a backround like that DESERVE to get hollared at or made to feel stupid because thats all that they know?? Would you yell at a 5 year old or make them feel stupid because they dont know algebra and you happen to be an algebra major?
At church, we dont lock the doors to people that might alcoholics or be involved in some sort of habitual sin. When they walk in we dont say "WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT? ARE YOU STUPID?" People learn from people gently correcting them in love. Thats just human nature.

[EmrldShdwQueen]

Originally Posted by MindieRose

A lot of people dont know the things about dog breeding that some might see as "obvious" things. If someone comes here asking a question, its because they DONT know, and they apparently want to learn. If someone comes here and says "I have dogs, they have bred, now what do I do?" APPARENTLY, they didnt KNOW to do their homework first. People cannot be faulted for ignorance or just never knowing. I personally grew up in the country, on a farm, and the neighbors dog always got one of our dogs or cats pregnant or vice versa. Now back then, and out in the middle of nowhere, no one got their dogs fixed, the dogs ran freely, and if your dog got pregnant (GASP!) usually friends and neighbors would take a puppy. THATS JUST HOW IT WAS. So would a person that perhaps has a backround like that DESERVE to get hollared at or made to feel stupid because thats all that they know?? Would you yell at a 5 year old or make them feel stupid because they dont know algebra and you happen to be an algebra major?
At church, we dont lock the doors to people that might alcoholics or be involved in some sort of habitual sin. When they walk in we dont say "WHY ARE YOU DOING THAT? ARE YOU STUPID?" People learn from people gently correcting them in love. Thats just human nature.

I wasn't going to post anymore about this...But it is COMMON SENSE that you don't just mess around with lives. You don't just take two dogs (small dogs ESPECIALLY), breed them, and then expect that all the knowledge breeders on here have should just be handed to them. This is NOT just algebra or being invited to church, these are the LIVES OF DOGS!! EVERYONE has at least SOME knowledge that if you put a male and female unaltered together...that you may just end up with some puppies. And don't tell me that these people don't know what they're doing by breeding these dogs. If they DIDN'T want this to happen then they would have spayed or neutered the dogs in the first place. And if they can't afford the spay or neuter, there are clinics, and if they can't afford that, they probably can't afford to care for a Yorkie anyways. IF they care about their dogs, they would do the responsible thing. Breeding their dogs and then coming here to ask for help, then NOT even taking the advice of the breeders here unless it supports your prior views is NOT responsible. And just for the record, no one made rude comments until the OP of that particular thread started making excuses and arguing with the people trying to answer her questions.

I don't like to get mad...it rarely ever happens...but I am PISSED right now.

So I'm done.

[bchgirl]

More than one knowledgable breeder has left this site and in at least one case I know of...it's because they do not want to be affiliated with some of the hatefulness found here.

There are some knowledgable breeders here and I respect their opinions. They willingly share their knowledge in a respectful manner. That being said...I am not a newbie I know who they are...and honestly if I had questions I would contact them via pm. Why? Because I'd get blasted by others for asking the question.

Sometimes I read someone's response and think....where you born breeding? Cause everyone started somewhere.

[jeanief]

I don't think people that get upset about these kind of posts have a holier than thou attitude. Anyone who is thinking about owning a dog, breeding a dog, should know the basics before hand, period. It's just not fair to the future mom or pups to be if you don't. If you are a breeder, you would or should know why these are upsetting questions to ask after the fact. I sure hope the link posted here was a troll and not real. We seem to have responsible breeders here at YT, and responsible breeders that see questions ( like in the link ) might be blunt. Again unless you are a breeder or have raised fragile pups you might not understand how awful it is to know there are people out there breeding and not knowing the first thing about it.

[MindieRose]

Originally Posted by EmrldShdwQueen

I wasn't going to post anymore about this...But it is COMMON SENSE that you don't just mess around with lives. You don't just take two dogs (small dogs ESPECIALLY), breed them, and then expect that all the knowledge breeders on here have should just be handed to them. This is NOT just algebra or being invited to church, these are the LIVES OF DOGS!! EVERYONE has at least SOME knowledge that if you put a male and female unaltered together...that you may just end up with some puppies. And don't tell me that these people don't know what they're doing by breeding these dogs. If they DIDN'T want this to happen then they would have spayed or neutered the dogs in the first place. And if they can't afford the spay or neuter, there are clinics, and if they can't afford that, they probably can't afford to care for a Yorkie anyways. IF they care about their dogs, they would do the responsible thing. Breeding their dogs and then coming here to ask for help, then NOT even taking the advice of the breeders here unless it supports your prior views is NOT responsible. And just for the record, no one made rude comments until the OP of that particular thread started making excuses and arguing with the people trying to answer her questions.

I don't like to get mad...it rarely ever happens...but I am PISSED right now.

So I'm done.

Hey cool down, I am not trying to get you angry at all. I am just saying that we should be more understanding is all. I can totally understand being upset with someone who is carelessly bringing dogs into the world. I just think that someone who cares enough to ask questions deserves a respectful answer. They say there are no stupid questions, but when questions are asked here, sometimes people are made to feel very stupid.
I could really go on about bringing lives into this world without knowing about what you are getting into, but I will back out of that one. I will say though, that it seems that people are blasted for not doing enough homework about bringing dogs into the world, yet how many people do their homework about being a mother before they have children? People learn as they go, year by year as parents. What about how they feed their children? Does everyone put as much effort into finding the absolutely more perfect food for their children (only a raw fruit and veggie diet?) and NEVER let their child have sugar because its bad for them, the way they do for their dogs?
I am not trying to get anyone angry, I just wish people could show some sympathy for those less blessed with knowlege of breeding. I never knew anything about breeding (except what my mom could tell me about dobermans) when my lab had pups years and years back. I have grown tremendously since then from doing my homework, and it took time. If the people helping me told me how horrible and irresponsible I was for breeding her, I probably would have acted in a very unchristian way at that point.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by MindieRose

I was talking about the thread that she has posted about. I had commented in that thread, and I believe thats what she is referring to.

No, it wasn't as I already pointed out with my very first sentence. It was a GENERAL statement about the situation in it's entirety. Not a comment you or anyone else in particular made...not any one comment or any one person or any one situation. This has been an ongoing problem spanning over many situations and involving many different members. The thread I posted was just a prime example of the feelings being expressed, nothing more.
I'm sorry if that was confusing...I didn't want that argument from that thread to continue here...just to use it as an example as it perfectly exemplified the issue I was trying to address.
I guess next time I should use a few more disclaimers...lol.

[Shadow]

Great posting!

Originally Posted by bchgirl

More than one knowledgable breeder has left this site and in at least one case I know of...it's because they do not want to be affiliated with some of the hatefulness found here.

There are some knowledgable breeders here and I respect their opinions. They willingly share their knowledge in a respectful manner. That being said...I am not a newbie I know who they are...and honestly if I had questions I would contact them via pm. Why? Because I'd get blasted by others for asking the question.

Sometimes I read someone's response and think....where you born breeding? Cause everyone started somewhere.