Spaded Duchess at 27 months old. - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Phyberlink · 09-30-2009, 08:07 AM

Hello all,

My Duchess is now 27 months old, a few weeks back was just spaded, the bill was $300.00 + The main reason I spaded her, is to calm her down, but I see no changes of her behavior or whatsoever. The problem is this:
Every time I take her for a walk on a leash in my neighborhood, she barks and growls at other people, she barks and growls at bikers. She thinks that she is a big big dog. I am forced to cross the street to go to the other side where there are no people. I watch "The Dog Whisperer" on TV to learn about this issue, but other behaviors are shown. Is there someone that can give me a good advise please?

Thanks in Advance.

luvfla · 09-30-2009, 08:09 AM

Take her out everyday so she can get used to people & dogs.

ARCHIE · 09-30-2009, 08:15 AM

I have had the same problem with Buddy but it's only at big dogs.
I also listen to Cesear and he taught me to catch the behavior BEFORE
he barks. You have to watch her carefully and correct her even
before she reacts and treat telling her what a good girl she is.
Sounds silly but is honestly works. Once they know they are actually
doing something wrong they do get better on walks.
I will gently poke him when I see a large dog up the street and
tell him NO and do it again if need be. He will growl under his breath,
because he has to do it his way, but won't lunge like a lunatic.
It has helped me greatly catching his behavior before he reacts.
If I don't catch it before he reacts there is nothing I can do but
get embarrased

He has gotten so much better, but it did take
time.

Nancy1999 · 09-30-2009, 08:59 AM

I've never heard that spaying calms down females, neutering sometimes calms down males because the testicles produce the bulk of testosterone, and as you probably know, testosterone is associated with aggression.

Yorkies seem to bark at bigger dogs, and I guess it's to show them they are not afraid. I use "redirection" with Joey. If we come upon a bigger dog, I just give a quick pull to his harness and redirect his attention, I do this several times, but he wears a harness not a collar so this will cause no injury. Sometimes, we have ended up in the opposite direction, and then I turn him back to the correct direction. I gave him a quick "Uh-uh", when I do this. I also try to keep the walk fairly fast paced so that he feels like this is his job. He has gotten much better using this technique. I'm surprised you haven't seen walking on Cesar's show, it seems like proper walking is a big part of every dog's treatment. Your job, as some have suggested, is to think ahead, and be on the lookout for trouble before it starts, keep your walk very purposeful, even though he's barking.

lil fu fu girl · 09-30-2009, 10:18 AM

Even though her surgery was several weeks back, estrogen is stored in fat cells, just like testosterone, so give her time for that. But I agree with Archies advice , nip the behavior before it starts. Before you get to the bikers, tell her to be a good girl and no barking. This has worked for me as well. Positive reinforcement instead of negative seems to do better.
Best of luck

Nancy1999 · 09-30-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

Even though her surgery was several weeks back, estrogen is stored in fat cells, just like testosterone, so give her time for that. But I agree with Archies advice , nip the behavior before it starts. Before you get to the bikers, tell her to be a good girl and no barking. This has worked for me as well. Positive reinforcement instead of negative seems to do better.
Best of luck

I don't think estrogen is linked to aggressive behavior is it? I mean I've never read that spaying is a good option for aggressive dogs, neutering yes, but spaying no. I know female dogs who have given birth will often become aggressive, but this is not from the estrogen, as it subsides somewhat after giving birth, and other hormones become more dominant for a time.

Britster · 09-30-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I don't think estrogen is linked to aggressive behavior is it? I mean I've never read that spaying is a good option for aggressive dogs, neutering yes, but spaying no. I know female dogs who have given birth will often become aggressive, but this is not from the estrogen, as it subsides somewhat after giving birth, and other hormones become more dominant for a time.

I know that two unspayed females are more likely to fight than two spayed females. I'm not sure of the science in that, though.

Nancy1999 · 09-30-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britster

I know that two unspayed females are more likely to fight than two spayed females. I'm not sure of the science in that, though.

I thought this only referred to breeding females, I didn't think this had anything to do with a female dog in general, and her barking at other dogs. While I'm a huge believer in spaying, I was surprised that advice was given to "calm her down."

Phyberlink · 09-30-2009, 11:34 AM

Yes, Dr. Brown, she told me that spaying Duchess will calm her down, but I do not know after how long will calm Duchess down. In next complete physical, I will ask Dr. Brown after how long I should expect Duchess to become less aggressive. I also will practice all the good advice from: luvfla, ARCHIE, Nancy1999, lil fu fu girl & Britster. Thank you all!

Britster · 09-30-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I thought this only referred to breeding females, I didn't think this had anything to do with a female dog in general, and her barking at other dogs. While I'm a huge believer in spaying, I was surprised that advice was given to "calm her down."

I honestly don't know anything for a fact but I have always heard of it calming dogs down. At least that's what the few vets I've been involved w/ over the years have always said (my parents dogs, etc). And that two unspayed females will fight more, regardless of if their breeding or not.

Nancy1999 · 09-30-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britster

I honestly don't know anything for a fact but I have always heard of it calming dogs down. At least that's what the few vets I've been involved w/ over the years have always said (my parents dogs, etc). And that two unspayed females will fight more, regardless of if their breeding or not.

Truthfully, I don't know anything about female dogs, I was just surprised to hear this and wondered what produced this effect. We had Joey neutered pretty early, and I would not say he's an aggressive dog, but the barking at other dogs, and intruders just seems to be wired into him. I don't think this comes so much from aggression, but I really think he's trying to protect me, and our yard/house. He's barking not snarling.

lil fu fu girl · 09-30-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I don't think estrogen is linked to aggressive behavior is it? I mean I've never read that spaying is a good option for aggressive dogs, neutering yes, but spaying no. I know female dogs who have given birth will often become aggressive, but this is not from the estrogen, as it subsides somewhat after giving birth, and other hormones become more dominant for a time.

You're right, the estrogens in her would not make her aggresive. But the immediate change in the hormonal balance, due to the non-production of the 20-30 different estrogen hormones and the progesterones could definitely cause significant mood swings. Ask a woman who has had a total hysterectomy what she feels like for the first several months. I can tell you from experience, it is not pretty! Lol
The whole estrogen and progesterone complex has many differing functions that involve not only brain stimulation, but production of other hormones that in essence effect most of our bodies functions. She probably will not be her normal self until all of the estrogens are depleted from her cells; as well as giving her body time to adjust to this new hormonal balance.

Ellie May · 10-01-2009, 05:03 AM

Don't count on the spay fixing the problem.
While it was good to do it, I really doubt it is going to change those behaviors.
Ellie does the same thing and her spay didn't help at all.
The only thing it may have done was reduce the amount of marking she does.

RachelandSadie · 10-09-2009, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I've never heard that spaying calms down females, neutering sometimes calms down males because the testicles produce the bulk of testosterone, and as you probably know, testosterone is associated with aggression.

Yorkies seem to bark at bigger dogs, and I guess it's to show them they are not afraid. I use "redirection" with Joey. If we come upon a bigger dog, I just give a quick pull to his harness and redirect his attention, I do this several times, but he wears a harness not a collar so this will cause no injury. Sometimes, we have ended up in the opposite direction, and then I turn him back to the correct direction. I gave him a quick "Uh-uh", when I do this. I also try to keep the walk fairly fast paced so that he feels like this is his job. He has gotten much better using this technique. I'm surprised you haven't seen walking on Cesar's show, it seems like proper walking is a big part of every dog's treatment. Your job, as some have suggested, is to think ahead, and be on the lookout for trouble before it starts, keep your walk very purposeful, even though he's barking.

this is the same advice i would give. it's what Victoria Stillwell does. when they start to tighten up and act like they are going to bark or lunge, say UH OH and turn them away from the other dog. then when they calm down, walk back in the initial direction and try it again. maybe you can have a friend with a larger dog help you practice until yours becomes calm around others.

good luck! i think i'll have this same issue with Sadie because she already as a baby barks at other dogs and people often in our yard or when i'm carrying her around.

it's party that terrier in them, they may be tiny, but they sure think they are big stuff...most books i've read about yorkies talk of the napoleon complex. big dog in a small body...they like to challenge bigger dogs because they inside think they are just as big and mighty...it's funny huh?

Phyberlink · 10-15-2009, 02:44 PM

The only thing that I cannot digest is:
Why the Doctor said things to me that are not true?
At this point, the YorkieTalk Group is honest that I trust. The next time I pay a visit to the VET, I will listen from one ear and let it out from the other. I much rather consult with you all here, cause you all have experience. Is there a Veterinarian aboard? this Forum?

09-30-2009, 08:07 AM	#1
Phyberlink Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Virginia USA Posts: 24	Spaded Duchess at 27 months old. Hello all, My Duchess is now 27 months old, a few weeks back was just spaded, the bill was $300.00 + The main reason I spaded her, is to calm her down, but I see no changes of her behavior or whatsoever. The problem is this: Every time I take her for a walk on a leash in my neighborhood, she barks and growls at other people, she barks and growls at bikers. She thinks that she is a big big dog. I am forced to cross the street to go to the other side where there are no people. I watch "The Dog Whisperer" on TV to learn about this issue, but other behaviors are shown. Is there someone that can give me a good advise please? Thanks in Advance.

09-30-2009, 08:15 AM	#3
ARCHIE Owned by "Buddy" Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: NEW YORK Posts: 14,523	I have had the same problem with Buddy but it's only at big dogs. I also listen to Cesear and he taught me to catch the behavior BEFORE he barks. You have to watch her carefully and correct her even before she reacts and treat telling her what a good girl she is. Sounds silly but is honestly works. Once they know they are actually doing something wrong they do get better on walks. I will gently poke him when I see a large dog up the street and tell him NO and do it again if need be. He will growl under his breath, because he has to do it his way, but won't lunge like a lunatic. It has helped me greatly catching his behavior before he reacts. If I don't catch it before he reacts there is nothing I can do but get embarrased He has gotten so much better, but it did take time. __________________ :Carol Buddy: ~MEMBER OF THE S.R.C. AND TEAPOT CLUB~

09-30-2009, 08:59 AM	#4
Nancy1999 ♥ Joey's Mom ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chandler, Arizona Posts: 10,130 Blog Entries: 2	I've never heard that spaying calms down females, neutering sometimes calms down males because the testicles produce the bulk of testosterone, and as you probably know, testosterone is associated with aggression. Yorkies seem to bark at bigger dogs, and I guess it's to show them they are not afraid. I use "redirection" with Joey. If we come upon a bigger dog, I just give a quick pull to his harness and redirect his attention, I do this several times, but he wears a harness not a collar so this will cause no injury. Sometimes, we have ended up in the opposite direction, and then I turn him back to the correct direction. I gave him a quick "Uh-uh", when I do this. I also try to keep the walk fairly fast paced so that he feels like this is his job. He has gotten much better using this technique. I'm surprised you haven't seen walking on Cesar's show, it seems like proper walking is a big part of every dog's treatment. Your job, as some have suggested, is to think ahead, and be on the lookout for trouble before it starts, keep your walk very purposeful, even though he's barking. __________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals Last edited by Nancy1999; 09-30-2009 at 09:00 AM.

09-30-2009, 10:18 AM	#5
lil fu fu girl YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,045	Even though her surgery was several weeks back, estrogen is stored in fat cells, just like testosterone, so give her time for that. But I agree with Archies advice , nip the behavior before it starts. Before you get to the bikers, tell her to be a good girl and no barking. This has worked for me as well. Positive reinforcement instead of negative seems to do better. Best of luck __________________ milkyway andromeda and bra'tac "If mankind were to disappear, 50 billion species will triumphantly shout Hoorah!"

09-30-2009, 11:34 AM	#9
Phyberlink Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Virginia USA Posts: 24	Dr. Brown my VET said spaying will calm her down Yes, Dr. Brown, she told me that spaying Duchess will calm her down, but I do not know after how long will calm Duchess down. In next complete physical, I will ask Dr. Brown after how long I should expect Duchess to become less aggressive. I also will practice all the good advice from: luvfla, ARCHIE, Nancy1999, lil fu fu girl & Britster. Thank you all!

09-30-2009, 08:09 AM	#2
luvfla YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Satellite Beach, FL Posts: 2,750	Take her out *everyday* so she can get used to people & dogs.

10-01-2009, 05:03 AM	#13
Ellie May Princess Dusty Paws Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The Great Lakes State Posts: 10,446	Don't count on the spay fixing the problem. While it was good to do it, I really doubt it is going to change those behaviors. Ellie does the same thing and her spay didn't help at all. The only thing it may have done was reduce the amount of marking she does. __________________ Crystal and Ellie May A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel. Proverbs 12:10

10-15-2009, 02:44 PM	#15
Phyberlink Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Virginia USA Posts: 24	Thank you all, I have learned a lot. The only thing that I cannot digest is: Why the Doctor said things to me that are not true? At this point, the YorkieTalk Group is honest that I trust. The next time I pay a visit to the VET, I will listen from one ear and let it out from the other. I much rather consult with you all here, cause you all have experience. Is there a Veterinarian aboard? this Forum?