Schutzhund

[whiteyorkie]

Since many of us have big yorkies. Whether you consider them the weight they were meant to be (before being breed down to toy size) or just bigger, they are what they are. They also can have stronger jaws.


When my yorkie was younger, he could grab onto a rope & I could pick him up the way larger dogs perform Schutzhund. Has anyone attempted Schutzhund with their yorkie. I never heard of Schutzhund till much later. (Mostly people do it with German shepherds, rotties, & sometime APBT types.)

[Lovetodream88]

That honestly is not good for their teeth and jaws. It's not really a good behavior to teach either.

[whiteyorkie]

I'm not sure if it's bad for their teeth & gums. I would think it depends on the individual dog & how good their breeding is. Dogs are meant to clamp down & bite. smaller & weaker dogs are because man chose to mess with nature.


Still, I am not an expert. So consult one before doing something.


As far as temperament, I am a bit more knowledgeable there then with vet stuff.
It depends on factors that are more about is the dog already vicious.


I guess most people want to cuddle with their yorkie & play games, like fetch or rope, rather than supposed big dog activities. However, rope, fetch, or stuff toys (that look like animals) can bring out aggressiveness in some dogs.


I don't see how Schutzhund would be any different.


https://k9trainer.wordpress.com/2008...a-vicious-dog/

[Lacey s mom]

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88

That honestly is not good for their teeth and jaws. It's not really a good behavior to teach either.

Agree! In addition I see zero purpose in this. My Aussie herds my horses..doesn't mean my yorkies should participate in something obviously dangerous for them eek:

[whiteyorkie]

Again, it goes back to what we think we need from each breed.


A guy has a rottie, so he feels the need to test it's bite.
A girl has a maltese, she feel the need to dress the dog in a cute outfit.


LOL!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by whiteyorkie

I'm not sure if it's bad for their teeth & gums. I would think it depends on the individual dog & how good their breeding is. Dogs are meant to clamp down & bite. smaller & weaker dogs are because man chose to mess with nature.


Still, I am not an expert. So consult one before doing something.


As far as temperament, I am a bit more knowledgeable there then with vet stuff.
It depends on factors that are more about is the dog already vicious.


I guess most people want to cuddle with their yorkie & play games, like fetch or rope, rather than supposed big dog activities. However, rope, fetch, or stuff toys (that look like animals) can bring out aggressiveness in some dogs.


I don't see how Schutzhund would be any different.


https://k9trainer.wordpress.com/2008...a-vicious-dog/

Its not good for their teeth and jaws and I feel like that is a sure thing. Generally dogs who are used for fighting are trained that way so I am fully against it in a big dog or a small dog. Just because a dog is small doesn't mean it is weak and it doesn't mean it was breed poorly if it is small and weak.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by whiteyorkie

Again, it goes back to what we think we need from each breed.


A guy has a rottie, so he feels the need to test it's bite.
A girl has a maltese, she feel the need to dress the dog in a cute outfit.


LOL!

There is no need to test a dogs bite unless you are fighting them or training them for protection. It's a great way to start aggression in a dog. Yorkies actually did have a job and that was ratting. Two of my yorkies are trick dogs who have certificates and one of them hopefully will be champion in tricks soon. My newest girl is still learning the basics. Dogs are here for so much more then being just cute or for dress up. They are still dogs and need to be trained and mentally stimulated. My boy is a hunter so after he gets his champion trick dog title I plan to do some nose work with him.

[whiteyorkie]

"There is no need to test a dogs bite unless you are fighting them or training them for protection. Yorkies actually did have a job and that was ratting."


Ratting is protecting us from vermin & involves biting the rodents!

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by whiteyorkie

"There is no need to test a dogs bite unless you are fighting them or training them for protection. Yorkies actually did have a job and that was ratting."


Ratting is protecting us from vermin & involves biting the rodents!

They actually don't brake the skin of the rat. They grab it by the neck and shake it to break it's neck.

[yorkietalkjilly]

I've read and heard that most people pay for expensive Schutzhund-trained dogs for aggressive attack purposes in order to save their lives from some type of anticipated physical attack solely intended to maim, kill or kidnap.

Yes, they are socialized, trained in tracking and obedience trained in order to strictly condition them to prescribed behavior in any and all situations they could face and strictly trained to obey all commands instantly and without hesitation but basically I understand that basically Schutzhund training essentially programs the dog to attack and totally disable/kill anything coming toward its charge either on command or its own initiative.

During a Sunday walk years ago, my tiny 3 lb. Jilly, with a tiny little snarl, instinctively jumped out in front of me to 'protect' me when a 65+ lb. Dalmatian suddenly rushed from the side bushes, in her brave attempt to protect ME, a 125 lb. woman, from the big dog! I didn't have to teach her a thing, nor should anyone teach a dog under 75 lbs.+ to try to protect them.

Tragically, the Dalmatian set upon Jilly with its teeth, picked her whole little body up in his mouth and proceeded to savage her as I used my walking stick on his head, eyes, nose, mouth with my right arm and held onto her leash with my left hand, trying to free her as I tried to kill him before he killed her. I guess the stick finally hit an eyeball or nose of something as he suddenly backed off his lacerated victim but God help me, who wants anything other than a big, powerful brute of a dog trying to protect them when a smaller dog is often the one who ends of in surgery, painful rehab or dead in the ER vet clinic? Dogs are often instinctively fiercely protective of their human as I sadly found out when Jilly was attacked for her best efforts.

The smaller dog is almost always the pitiful, lacerated, bloody loser when a larger dog or human goes after it for trying to protect its human charge as any animal intent on attack can be utterly and savagely vicious and can sustain an ferocious attack sickeningly long after their prey goes eternally still. I would never train anything other than a large, powerful breed from a genetic line bred specifically for protection/attack aggression/working tendencies and only then in the unlikely event I had an unproven stalker/suspected threat that LEOs were prevented from taking steps against until said villain actually broke the law. But I would never try to train anything but a large, powerful brute of a naturally aggressive dog in Schutzhund protection/attack tactics as anything smaller is all too often just a victim in waiting.

[yorkiemini]

Today most of the Schtzhund trainers are active in the K9 Sports Pro organization and trials. They cover tracking, obedience and protection. Generally temperament is more important that jaw strength when training these dogs.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by yorkiemini

Today most of the Schtzhund trainers are active in the K9 Sports Pro organization and trials. They cover tracking, obedience and protection. Generally temperament is more important that jaw strength when training these dogs.

Agree. For Schutzhund's primary protection/attack role for prospective owners who may be at risk, trainers usually select mostly high-motor, hyper-vigilant, fearless, intense, aggressive, large, powerful dogs whose bite is bred strong for centuries, a dog that would rather work than eat, play, sleep or cuddle and is always asking to work. And because they are almost always instinctively act on their own initiative for protection purposes, training that dog to do anything other than protect his charge takes a trainer with total dedication and determination.

For the dog who may never have to protect a charge and the training is more of a sport, a less focused temperament can be fine.

But I've never seen a Yorkshire Terrier of even the largest teapot size that any dog trainer I know would recommend for training in personal protection.

[canana]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

I've read and heard that most people pay for expensive Schutzhund-trained dogs for aggressive attack purposes in order to save their lives from some type of anticipated physical attack solely intended to maim, kill or kidnap.

Yes, they are socialized, trained in tracking and obedience trained in order to strictly condition them to prescribed behavior in any and all situations they could face and strictly trained to obey all commands instantly and without hesitation but basically I understand that basically Schutzhund training essentially programs the dog to attack and totally disable/kill anything coming toward its charge either on command or its own initiative.

During a Sunday walk years ago, my tiny 3 lb. Jilly, with a tiny little snarl, instinctively jumped out in front of me to 'protect' me when a 65+ lb. Dalmatian suddenly rushed from the side bushes, in her brave attempt to protect ME, a 125 lb. woman, from the big dog! I didn't have to teach her a thing, nor should anyone teach a dog under 75 lbs.+ to try to protect them.

Tragically, the Dalmatian set upon Jilly with its teeth, picked her whole little body up in his mouth and proceeded to savage her as I used my walking stick on his head, eyes, nose, mouth with my right arm and held onto her leash with my left hand, trying to free her as I tried to kill him before he killed her. I guess the stick finally hit an eyeball or nose of something as he suddenly backed off his lacerated victim but God help me, who wants anything other than a big, powerful brute of a dog trying to protect them when a smaller dog is often the one who ends of in surgery, painful rehab or dead in the ER vet clinic? Dogs are often instinctively fiercely protective of their human as I sadly found out when Jilly was attacked for her best efforts.

The smaller dog is almost always the pitiful, lacerated, bloody loser when a larger dog or human goes after it for trying to protect its human charge as any animal intent on attack can be utterly and savagely vicious and can sustain an ferocious attack sickeningly long after their prey goes eternally still. I would never train anything other than a large, powerful breed from a genetic line bred specifically for protection/attack aggression/working tendencies and only then in the unlikely event I had an unproven stalker/suspected threat that LEOs were prevented from taking steps against until said villain actually broke the law. But I would never try to train anything but a large, powerful brute of a naturally aggressive dog in Schutzhund protection/attack tactics as anything smaller is all too often just a victim in waiting.

Omigoodness. This story was so hard to read!! Poor lil Jilly....I cannot begin to imagine! How awful...

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by canana

Omigoodness. This story was so hard to read!! Poor lil Jilly....I cannot begin to imagine! How awful...

It was horrific but even though she seized all the way home, her neck stiff with rigor with her head lying almost on her back, frothing at the mouth, I was certain she was dying as we made our way the 3 blocks back home, the vet found she'd somehow survived the vicious attack fairly well for such a huge size differential, with six deep lacerations, torso/internal organ bruising & swelling. After emergency surgery, she rehabbed well. Thankfully our city AC seized, rabies-quarantined the attacker at a vet clinic - he was cleared, thankfully, but I was very glad Jilly was current on her vax.

And you know, after six weeks of rest and rehab, the vet allowed her to finally walk up and down the block rather than part of the block. I steeled myself not to feed any fear reaction she showed other dogs we might encounter and had prepared a plan for immediately redirecting her focus if we did. I had to work so hard to prepare myself to not show any worry or fear myself though I was worried for how she might react.

Guess I hid my anxiety well enough because as we reached the end of the block and the grumpy GSD who lived in the yard there, Jilly, looking a bit like Frankenstein's monster with healing scars, stitch marks visibly on her back and torso, went toe-to-toe with the giant shepherd dog through the Cox fence, a huge barkfest with bared teeth and raised hackles! Thankfully, she never showed an ounce of fear of dogs or PTSD-type reaction to that dog attack. Her protective instinct and courage remained intact but I was an ever-vigilant walker after that, always carrying an auto-open umbrella which whooshes suddenly open to a huge, black circle to dissuade any dogs that gave us any warning of aggression, though it was useless preventing any attack one never saw coming.

[canana]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

It was horrific but even though she seized all the way home, her neck stiff with rigor with her head lying almost on her back, frothing at the mouth, I was certain she was dying as we made our way the 3 blocks back home, the vet found she'd somehow survived the vicious attack fairly well for such a huge size differential, with six deep lacerations, torso/internal organ bruising & swelling. After emergency surgery, she rehabbed well. Thankfully our city AC seized, rabies-quarantined the attacker at a vet clinic - he was cleared, thankfully, but I was very glad Jilly was current on her vax.

And you know, after six weeks of rest and rehab, the vet allowed her to finally walk up and down the block rather than part of the block. I steeled myself not to feed any fear reaction she showed other dogs we might encounter and had prepared a plan for immediately redirecting her focus if we did. I had to work so hard to prepare myself to not show any worry or fear myself though I was worried for how she might react.

Guess I hid my anxiety well enough because as we reached the end of the block and the grumpy GSD who lived in the yard there, Jilly, looking a bit like Frankenstein's monster with healing scars, stitch marks visibly on her back and torso, went toe-to-toe with the giant shepherd dog through the Cox fence, a huge barkfest with bared teeth and raised hackles! Thankfully, she never showed an ounce of fear of dogs or PTSD-type reaction to that dog attack. Her protective instinct and courage remained intact but I was an ever-vigilant walker after that, always carrying an auto-open umbrella which whooshes suddenly open to a huge, black circle to dissuade any dogs that gave us any warning of aggression, though it was useless preventing any attack one never saw coming.

Wow Jilly is one tough cookie!! I was actually afraid to ask if she survived, but I'm SO glad to hear she did!!! Otherwise, it'd be too tragic. But the pain and suffering she went through. My goodness. And good on her (and you) for not having any post-traumatic fear. That's so hard to come by.

Ohh.. I recall on another post that you commented on the big black umbrella. Now I know why.

Scottie and Casie senses other dogs a mile away (sadly for me, they are very fearful of other dogs, bark non-stop at them, and I live in a super dog-dense neighborhood). In fact, Scottie is paranoid and constantly looking behind to see if anyone's there. Sometimes he gets me paranoid too - I turn around an no one is there! lol